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Zeroing A New Scope

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2015 at 11:27
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Optics GrassHopper
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Hello All,

I am new to the forum and have a couple questions about sighting in my new Scope. I have a 

Ade Advanced Optics 6-25X56mm 35mm Long Range Rifle Scope. Which i love so far. I have been to the range and put 200 Rounds down range and have sighted the scope in. I am running into trouble though with the adjustments of the scope to get to zero. I have a bore sight which i used to help zero the scope. But that always seems to be off. After which i adjusted the elevation and windage knobs at 50 yds to zero the rifle. The scope has a parallax adjustment knob which is very useful in zeroing the rifle at 50 yds then 100 yds. After zeroing at 50 yds all i had to do was adjust to 100 yds on the parallax knob and the rifle was zeroed. Where i am running into trouble is the direction of the knobs and this feels backwards. I know that when zeroing in a rifle you are moving the reticle to the point of impact of the round you just fired. So if i hit low and to the left i will adjust down and to the left. But i am not sure if this is correct or not. I have heard it two ways. One, you are moving the reticle to overlap the point of impact and the other is to move the point of impact to overlap the reticle. I am wondering which one is correct. And in which direction do i move the knobs. Am i correct in assuming that if you are 3 inches low and 4 inches left. you move the elevation knob 12 clicks down and 16 clicks left at 100 yds? Being that the knobs are 1/4 inch per 100 yds or 4 = 1 MOA. Or am i backwards in my thinking and need to adjust it in the other direction. If someone could clarify this for me it would help greatly because i have been watching videos and reading posts and also trying it my self with my rifle but still seemed confused. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2015 at 11:35
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Optics GrassHopper
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Here is my Armalite M15A4 20 inch barrel with a harris bipod and collapsible stock with an accu-shot Precision Rail Monopod. I am in love with this scope and for the price ($288) it was well worth it. Any input would be greatly appreciated thank you.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2015 at 12:07
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First, welcome.

Now it gets complicated.

The questions asked, and we shall address them, should have been self-answered after 200 rounds, what am I missing?

Next, I am not sure you are using "parallax" and "zero" in the same manner as I.  Parallax is the perceived shift in an object's position, viewed through an optical device, based on the position of the observer - or something close to that.  To get rid of parallax means adjusting till movement of the eye results in no apparent movement of the image in relation to the reticle.  This is sometimes referred to as "zeroing out parallax" but is monumentally different from zeroing a rifle.  And parallax does indeed change at varying distances, but you lost me here: "

 After zeroing at 50 yds all i had to do was adjust to 100 yds on the parallax knob and the rifle was zeroed."

Actually, no, the rifle is not zeroed at 100 yards, and parallax adjustment ranges on the scope are approximate and are not absolute.  If you are parallax-free at 50 yards on the "50" of the parallax adjustment, that is great, but do not assume the same will be true for all stated ranges.


Zeroing a rifle means adjusting the optical point of aim to match the rifle's point of impact at a certain distance, with a certain load, and with a certain set of environmental conditions.  When done correctly, the rifle should place rounds precisely based on point of impact directly correlating to point of aim.  Keep in mind that the zero is based only on those conditions; if conditions change, so too will point of impact.

On the scope adjustments, you are doing it backwards (or, that is my assumption, as the overwhelming majority of rifle scopes mean "bullet impact moves right" when you move in the "R" direction, and "bullet impact moves up" when you move in the "up" direction.)  I have used 2 scopes that move as your understanding indicates, both were - in my definition and the definitions of fellow shooters - broken.


So, if you are 3 inches low and 4 inches right at 100 yards, the correction should be (assuming 1/4MOA adjustments) 12 clicks UP and 16 clicks LEFT to be on target.  Also, a recommend shooting groups rather than individual rounds.  In this, shoot a 5-shot group, then measure the center of the group to the desired point of impact. Adjust on groups, not on singles.  And if your setup isn't grouping, that is another issue to understand.  I cannot tell you how many shooters I have seen take a shot, make an adjustment, take another shot, make another adjustment, take another shot... and end up confused and unhappy with their gear.

Lastly, your scope looks to be mounted very far back.  I have no experience with that optic, but if it has anywhere near normal eye relief, that looks like a highly unusual setup.

Hope this helps, let us know if anything more is needed.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2015 at 12:25
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Optics GrassHopper
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Thank you Rancid.

I did not mean it took 200 rounds to sight in the rifle. It took about 5 rounds at 50 yds and 5 round at 100 yds. 

I guess im confused in what i am adjusting. For instance i am thinking i am adjusting the reticle to overlap the  point of impact. So when you say if im 3 inches low and 4 inches left, i am confused as to why i would move 12 clicks up and 16 clicks left. Why would i not move the reticle down and to the left to match the point of impact. To me that seems backwards i would be farther away if i moved 12 clicks up and i was kitting down that would make me 6 inches low of the reticle. Why would i not move 12 clicks down to match the point of impact? Or am i thinking about this wrong?

As far as the parallax is concerned on this scope the parallax is used to focus the reticle on the target. I understand the parallax error part of it. But why would my rifle still be right on target after adjusting the parallax to 100 yds from 50 yds?

In practice i can adjust the sight to match the point of impact. But where i am confused is not having the rifle in front of me and getting the correct thought in my head. I am just trying to figure out what i am adjusting for. Such as moving the reticle to the point of impact or move the point of impact to the reticle. This is what i am confused about. As i am trying to figure out what i am adjusting. If someone could answer this it would help greatly. I am just trying to figure out if i move 1 click to the right on the scope what is moving? I assume the reticle is moving to the right 1/4 inch. Is this correct? or am i moving the point of impact 1/4 inch to the right and i need to move it backwards to move it closer to the crosshairs? Thank you Rancid, I hope this info helps clarify.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2015 at 13:10
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If you make corrections "up" on the turret, you will actually be moving the horizontal crosshair down.  So, in simplest terms, moving 12 up and 16 left moves the crosshair down 3 inches and 4 inches right.  The crosshairs move opposite the strike of the round.  If you are shooting low, you move the crosshairs down and that raises the strike of the round up.  The typical scope has the correction on the turret, not the movement of the reticle;  there is absolutely no need to think about or observe what the crosshairs are doing during the correction - that is missing the proverbial forest for the trees.

It is true, as I stated just yesterday on another thread, you can observe the change in point of aim during the correction, but doing this requires an absolute immobilization of the gun.  If you vice the gun in place(with the crosshairs at the point of aim used to fire) and make the theoretical correction being discussed, you will note the crosshairs move down to the strike of the round, so you are adjusting the point of aim to match the point of impact.  To do this, you use the turrets to correct based on bullet strike, not on reticle movement.

Many seem to be making this far more difficult than it is: if you are low on target, move the elevation turret "up" by the amount required, if left, move the windage turret "R", you can spend lots of time pontificating on why it works that way, but it won't change the fact that it does indeed work that way.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2015 at 13:40
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Optics GrassHopper
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Ok that makes sense. And for me thinking about it you are moving where the point of impact is relative to the reticle so you wouldn't observe the crosshairs moving you would see the point of impact moving to the crosshairs. So as you said if your point of impact is love you move the turret up and if you are left you move the turret right. So the corrections are to the point of impact relative to the crosshairs instead of the crosshairs relative to the point of impact. Makes muych more sense now on how to adjust the sights. Thank you very much.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2015 at 13:42
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So as you said if your point of impact is low you move the turret up and if you are left you move the turret right. Corrected the last post since i can not edit my posts yet.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2015 at 13:44
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As far as the scope being far back. For me the eye relief is about 3 inches so i move the scope back on the mounts in order to keep it close to my eye. If i move it far forward then i have to extend my neck as the focal length is very short for this scope so i have to be in the sweet spot to see down the scope. In my opinion that is the only draw back to this scope, but i assume it is due to the magnification of the scope needing to be very precise in order to keep the optics in focus.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2015 at 14:35
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Put your gun in a vice so it cannot move on the shooting bench.  Shoot a shot on paper.  If it does not hit your POA then while looking through the scope move the adjustments so your POA lines up exactly with your POI.  That way you can see how the reticle moves in relation to the adjustments.   And as a side benefit you can zero your setup in one shot.   Wink

Also I would strongly suggest getting an AR type scope mount for your rifle.  High rings are just not a good fit as the scope is to far back.  Your scope really needs to move forward a couple inches and things would work much better for you. 
http://swfa.com/SWFA-SSALT-30mm-Scope-Mount-P58814.aspx
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2015 at 09:48
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Optics GrassHopper
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:


Also I would strongly suggest getting an AR type scope mount for your rifle.  High rings are just not a good fit as the scope is to far back.  Your scope really needs to move forward a couple inches and things would work much better for you. 
http://swfa.com/SWFA-SSALT-30mm-Scope-Mount-P58814.aspx

That looks great but i need a 35mm mount for the scope i have. Any suggestion? I also need to make sure it can accommodate a 56mm objective lens. I also have the quad rail on the front of the rifle as you can see. So i need to make sure the objective lens does not impact the quad rail after putting a shorter mount on it. The current mounts only leave about a 1/4 to a 1/3 of an inch between the objective lens and the rails. Any suggestions?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2015 at 23:45
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You are overcomplicating things.

Ignore which direction the reticle actually moves, especially since, what is moving is the whole erector tube, not the reticle cell alone.

The turrets on the gun are marked with the direction in which the point of impact will move.  If you are shooting 4" low, you need to move the point of impact 4" up.

As far as mounts go, there are plenty of excellent 35mm mounts out there, but they are fairly expensive.  I use Aadmount almost exlcusively for no QD mounts and they have a 35mm version.

If you want a QD system, consider ADM.

Your picture is a little dark, but if I am seeing it correctly, you've got the monopod set up in front of the mag well.  I do not think I have ever seen it there.  Typically, the monopod sits under the buttstock.

One last piece of advice: Ade 6-25x56 scope is sort of an "off brand" version of Millett LRS-1.  The Chinese OEM who makes it has to satisfy certain QC checks in order to ship it to Millett.  The scopes that do not pass those QC checks are sold under other (ever changing) brand names often with a few optical elements swapped out.

If you choose to stick with this scope, make sure you learn its idiosyncrasies well: check adjustmetn consistency carefully, check POA consistency with magnification, etc.

Also, with 5.56, there is typically about 1.5 inches of drop between 50 yards and 100 yards.  You can not be dead on at both distance without changing the turret settings.

ILya
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