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Zeiss-Kahles-Rilfe choice

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/14/2004 at 11:37
NCOffshore View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
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OK, 1st, I am new to the site and really have enjoyed reading the rifle scope forum.  Great information.  I have always bird hunted, dove, quail, ducks and geese.  But, recently I have noticed a good size whitetail in my back yard and started deer hunting with my 12 gauge.  Well, as a result, I now have the "bug" and been invited to go deer hunting several times and am sick and tired of being stuck in the "shotgun" stands.

 

I have decided on either the Zeiss or Kahles for various reasons stated here 100 times over.  Will probably stay in the 40-42-44 product range 3(1/2) X 9.  I was told by a Kahles retailer here in NC that if I go with the Zeiss to make sure it was one made in Germany because their specs are more stringent than the US manufactured models?  Any truth to this?  And if I buy a used scope, how can I tell if it does indeed make a difference?

 

My other question relates to the rifle.  Although I realize this forum is scope related, I thought I would ask anyway.  I was always told that the scope is more important than the rifle.  Thus my decision to make the scope choice first.  Now, I have decided on a 30.06, for sure (although someone is still trying to get me to consider the 7mm .08).

 

I have narowed my decision down to the Rem 700 CDL (wood stock) matte, or the Browning A-Bolt II Medalion or Hunter.  I like the "feel" of the Browning better and the bolt action seems more "solid".  Also, they tell me the Browning barrell is "free floated" while the Rem is not (they used a dollar bill and slid it under the barrell to demonstrate this).  The REM I have heard is a sure bet out of the box, true and tested for years.  HELP!!  I don't think the money is that different.

 

Thanks in advance.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/14/2004 at 11:55
ranburr View Drop Down
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Kahles and Zeiss are both very good scopes, just as Remington and Browning make good rifles.  If Zeiss puts their name on a product it does not matter where it is made, it will be of high quality.  The U.S. scopes (Conquest) are actually made at the component level in europe and merely assembled in the U.S.  What the gunstore guy might have confused is that the euro-made scopes are of a higher quality because they have different lense coatings and they generally cost $1,000 and up for many of the models.  The Zeiss Conquest are an extremely good scope and I personally use a number of the 3-9x40 models and I can assure you that they will serve you well.  The Kahles is a great scope, but it cost well over $100 more than the Conquest without a $100+ of improvement.  I think you made the right choice with the .30-06.  It is the most versatile round in N.A. and you can literally hunt anything in N.A. with it.  The 7mm-08 is a great deer caliber, but not as versatile as the .30-06 if you start hunting other big game.  Personally I do not use Remington or Browning rifles because they are both push-feeds.  That being said, they are both very high quality and will serve you well.  Between the two I would buy the Remington CDL.

 

ranburr



Edited by ranburr
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/14/2004 at 12:12
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Optics GrassHopper
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Thanks for the quick reply.  How about a good spot to find a used Zeiss or Kahles so I can save some cash, from a source that can be trusted?  I know swfa has the reputation for the best prices (with match guarantee 110%) on new models.

 

Also, what does "push-feed" indicate, manual v. auto?  Curious.

 

Thanks again

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/14/2004 at 12:40
Brady View Drop Down
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Look at our sample list. You can find some awesome deals on there. Zeiss has a life time transferable warranty also.

 

www.samplelist.com

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/14/2004 at 13:55
ranburr View Drop Down
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As brady said the sample list is the place to go.  There are essentially two major types of bolt action rifles.  The first is a push feed which Remington, Savage, Browning and others utilize.  This system literally pushes a round from the magazine into the chamber.  The second style is known as the controlled round feed often cauled a Mauser action.  Winchester Classics, Kimber, Ruger and others use this system.  With the Controlled round feed the bullet is actually grabbed and held by the bolt as it is stripped from the magazine placed in the chamber.  The controlled round feed / Mauser is a more reliable method of feeding ammo.  You will see that almost every dangerous game bolt rifle is a Mauser type action, even the ones from companies whose other rifles utilize the push feed design.  This is not to say that you will ever have a problem with a push feed design, you probably never will.  I just prefer the Mauser style.

 

ranburr    

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/14/2004 at 18:03
SPAD View Drop Down
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NCO

  You are on the right track with the higher quality optics.  It is the only way to go!  The only bad thing is after you use a Swarovski it is very difficult to go back to using a cheap scope.  I spent the better part of 6 hours today at the range shooting.  Another shooter stopped by and wanted me to help him sight in his rifle.  I had a hard time trying to focus the target through the 20 year old Bushnell scope mounted on his new 204 Ruger.   It took awhile to sight it in and I had to pack-up after shooting his rifle, the eye strain was too much to bear.  Clarity is King!  1" scopes I own, I rate in this order:  Swarovski, Leupold VX-III, Zeiss, Kahles, Leupold VX-II.  30MM:  Schmidt&Bender, Leupold VX-III LR, Burris Black Diamond, Leupold Euro. 
  The dollar trick ("Free floated barrel") sales pitch, doesn't always insure accuracy.  I have and old Sako Manlicher 243 that will shoot just as accurately as my Custom/Accurized M24 out to 250 yds.  Free floating the barrel is one of the "Last Resorts" to find accuracy from a rifle.  I have 7 REM 700s and only three of them are free-floated (Stock design, not a modification).  They all shoot extreemely well.  I do alot of reloading and find that most of the time I can tailor the round to the barrel.  I have been waiting for the 280 CDLs to come out (I have a hankering for a 280 AI)  The only thing I really liked about the Browning rifles, was the extraction!  They sure spit out the brass!  I no longer own one, though.  I favor the push-feed system.  I do alot of shooting from the bench and I prefer to "throw-and-go(put a round in, push foreward and lock the bolt down)" rather than pushing the round down into the magazine each time so the claw can grab it.  I have two "Claw" rifles.  Win 70 Classic Laredo and a Kimber 84M.

SPAD
(Former NCO from the 82nd Airplane Gang)
        
         
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/14/2004 at 22:23
Roy Finn View Drop Down
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Go with the 700 CDL in 30/06 and don't look back. Ranburr stated it as I would have. The 06 is probably the most versatile round for 90% of what you are likely to encounter in N. America. Hornady and Federal also offer loadings ( Light Magnum and High Energy ) that are right on the heels of the 300 Win. Mag. With the exception of the BIG bears, your ready to go.

With regards to your scope choice, both are top quality. Don't get me wrong, the Kahles is one of the finest scopes out their, however, you are also paying for import duties and a higher wage for European manufacturing. The Zeiss is a decent choice and "should serve you well". A quote used to describe the Elite 4200's which are my personal favorite!!!

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/16/2004 at 09:42
redneckbmxer24 View Drop Down
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get the 700 CDL, its one bueatiful rifle. as for the caliber, i would get a 270 win, or 7mm-08, they are 2 perfect deer cartridges. and the scope, i think a VXIII looks better on the gun, since it has the golden ring on the objective, but the zeiss conquest would be an excellent choice aswell.

 

cory

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/16/2004 at 09:43
redneckbmxer24 View Drop Down
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hmm... Roy's reply just got me to thinking, a 4200 2.5-10x40 would look good on the CDL.

 

cory

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/18/2004 at 19:37
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My advice to you would be the Zeiss VM/V series-Made in Germany or the Schmidt and Bender Zenith- Made in Germany. You will not be dissapointed in this choice. The Germans to me are the very best in optical technology and you can't go wrong with a German optical product. You will have to pay a good bit nore for it but over the years you will be well served. As far as rifles the Rem 700 is a good choice. I have owned 2 of these. one in 7mm Rem. Mag and .270 Win. I will give you my choice if you don't mind- Tikka T3-go to berretausa.com for more info and the Sauer 202 is a very fine rifle. thanks Brian
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