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Zeiss Z Reticles & .308

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/16/2011 at 21:29
space_weazel View Drop Down
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So I'm looking at the Zeiss 4-14 with the Rapid-Z800 and trying to figure out how closely it will line up, so I went on to the Zeiss website and used their calculator for a few approximations of my loads, and things didn't seem to link up well.

Heres and example of one

Ok so thats at max power of 14x and as you can see the 300yard bar is a little short, the 400 a bit shorter, and so on and so on. So I was wondering how far off impact would be if say I was taking a shot at a target known to be at 400 or 500 yards assuming that I do my part and the wind is calm.

So I opened up a ballistics calculator and put in the same values, and got this

Now I'm not sure that I fully understand all of this but It would appear that if I take that shoot at 400 yard target on the 400 yard mark that it will hit zero at 372yard and then drop another 6 or so inches, so if I was on center of a 4" dot at 400 that the impact will be 4" outside of the bottom of the dot? 
Likewise a 500 yard shot zeroing at 460 yards and then dropping 10.5 inches or likely completely off the target?

Am I looking at this correctly?


Note I know it will recalculate a better magnification, in this case its 10-11x I'm just wondering if I am actually understanding what I'm looking at, and how far off it will be at maximum power.

Thanks
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/16/2011 at 22:02
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You're supposed to hit "Optimize Power" and that will tell you what power to set it on and where the supposed point of impacts will be.
 
But, the RapidZ 1000 is made for the 308.  It is a lot busier but investigate that reticle.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/16/2011 at 22:53
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You could always make a chart with the actual values at 14x for each bar:

Bar 3  -------------- Zeroed at 283
Bar 4 --------------- Zeroed at 372
Bar 5 --------------- Zeroed at 460

and so on.

With my Z-600 reticle scope, I "tuned" it to the recommended power shown and did some fine adjustments to my 3 bar zero at 300 yards, and then the drops were on (and later field verified) to 600.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/17/2011 at 07:27
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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Shots are rarely if never at even intervals, 200,300,400 etc. When the highest mag is "short" of the distance, regardless of what the actual number is, make up the difference by dialing the short moa in to the set up using the elevation turret. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/20/2011 at 02:44
space_weazel View Drop Down
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But am I calculating this correctly? I'm not screwing up and missing a conversion, or missing that one thing is inches at 100yds and not accounting for the additional range?

thanks

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/20/2011 at 05:05
stickbow46 View Drop Down
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SW,I had the same problem with my .308 trying to use a Z800[set up for 300UM & 338UM as stated above]it drove me crazy.The solution to the problem was to get a custom made turret from a company called Kenton Industries out of Cal.#805-901-1752
I purchased a turret with 25 yd markings from 100 yds out to 800 yds.........end of my problem! Cost was $115 shipped & they do excellent work.Turn around was 3 weeks.
FYI:
Z800 is supposed to be set at 400 yds as O for the BDC to work properly.The turrets slip off as if you were setting a zero on most scopes,it's held on by a set screw.I only changed my vertical turret not the horizon.


Edited by stickbow46 - June/20/2011 at 05:09
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/20/2011 at 07:03
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not sure about stickbows comments for your exact application, sounds like he has a setup that works good for him but i would do some more reading. 

if youre talking about the 4.5-14 conquest like the deal on samplelist, there is only 43MOA of internal adjustment in them which is not ideal if youre really trying to reach out. The scope was designed for using the reticle, I also dont see the point in spending money on a custom elevation knob when all you need to do is figure out is at what power the reticle matches your load by the calculator (or do what dale clifford said and leave it set at max power and dial in the small elevation differences when you need them).
If you do decide to go with custom knobs, make sure with your load/mount combo that you have enough elevation to get where you want to go. Off of zeiss's website it does show a special of $29 for kenton knobs on qualifying scopes, not sure if this is one of them.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/20/2011 at 07:14
stickbow46 View Drop Down
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Sorry I forgot to mention the scope I have is a Victory 4-16x50 FL. with the Z800 rapid I do my own loads & they are dedicated to my Rem 5r milspec in .308.With the Kenton I have to just turn the turret match the distance to the target.I also had it cut in yds not in meters for simplicity with using my range finder.
 
I only shoot out to 400 yds so maybe it won't work for the longer distances but you should be able to discuss that with Kenton if you go that route.This method works just fine for me & it's just another choice you have been given.


Edited by stickbow46 - June/20/2011 at 07:20
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/20/2011 at 12:59
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
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I just started working wiht the Z800 if I  was using a .308 I believe I would want the Z1000 but the Z800 will work for .308 just like it works for my 300 WSM.  Using the balistic calculator should give you some info on what power to set the sope on and what distances the lines should represent with a particular load.  From there you need to do actual field testing so that you know what you will get.  With a second focal plane scope the reticle appears the same no matter what power the scope is set on.   As you zoom in or out with a second focal plane scope  the field of view changes and a t lower powers  you can see more  width side to side.  What that means is that what the reticle marks represent will be different at every power.  Zero the center crosshair at 200 that is the point that will always stay the same. What the lines below represent will vary depending on what power you select so you want to know what likes 2, 3, 4,5,6,7,8 represent at max power  at minimum power and possibly some other powers inbetween so keep notes.  I went to the range set my 200 yd Zero then shot on a large piece of paper aiming at the same mark with the center of the crosshair shooting from 300 , 400 ,  500 and  600 yds which gave me a paper with several groups of holes below center.  I took black spray paint and marked those groups so I could see them from distance.  It is quite interesting to see how much change therer is in what the reticle marks represent at long range when you change power.   I also tested the Zeiss calculator that told me to use 10.4  power  and shot at 600 yds finding that to be fairly close.   I need to go back and work some more to test and confirm  hold over at different powers at the actual distance.

Since the bullet will drop we know that any mark below center on the reticle will represent some distance the trick is to learn what distance is represented at what power and it takes some work to learn that.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/20/2011 at 19:43
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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Heres a z800 on a conquest and with 175, the optimum power is 12.8 on an R5. I don't know why you are messing around with Kenton, especially with the outstanding turrets on the Diavaries. I don't recall you saying if the turrets where moa. or .5 mil.

Heres a z1000 diavari on a trg. its optimium for the same 175 gr load is 23.6. The turrets are in .5 mil however.  Two options are usable, I can dial in the drop using a calulator program such as JBM or dial in 6.2 mil which "activates" the reticle for the 500 yd holdover for this reticle, and then just use the reticle for the holdover without dialing.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/20/2011 at 21:42
space_weazel View Drop Down
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Goal here was to use the reticle, and use the conquest with the covered adjustments.

Just hold and fire, I was just trying to figure out if I was correct in my adjustments so that I could know at 14x and firing at a 500yard gong, that it will likely fall 10 inches low so I could compensate just a little for that, I'm assuming that since no one has corrected my ranging assumptions that I am assuming correctly...... Whacko
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/20/2011 at 21:43
space_weazel View Drop Down
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Also are the hash's on the edges and going up the upper half of the reticle Mil's at 14x that can be used for range estimation?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/20/2011 at 22:10
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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The top and sides are 2 moa at 14x magnification. Not sure what your using for calculations, did you zero at 100 or 200 yds?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/21/2011 at 20:17
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Standard ballistics calculator( the first one I found on google)
and the rapid-z calculator on the Zeiss website.
200 yard zero.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/21/2011 at 20:35
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
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I need more range time with this scope to be sure I have the thing figured out as I am used to dialing in correction. If it would ever stop raining here I might be able to get out and do that.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/21/2011 at 21:40
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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yes your conclusions and calculations are correct. Another way to use the reticle is to find the moa differences of the lines at 100 yds. These are the hold over values at 14x when using a ballistic program. As an example, using a 1 inch graduated target at 100 yds count the inches between each bar. (this will actually work on any power you want to use the scope on). Knowing this look up the drop values in a ballistic program for that moa, that will give you the yardage for that bar.  
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