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Zeiss Varipoint Reticle Question

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/05/2012 at 19:59
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Does anyone have a Zeiss with the illuminated #54 or #56 reticle?

If so, would it be possible to post a picture here in the tread of a through the scope view on low, mid, and high magnification?

Much obliged.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/05/2012 at 20:58
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You can go to Zeiss sports optics & see all the reticles they sell.They have the #56 on the Victory series.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/05/2012 at 21:59
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I'm well aware of that. However, my experience has shown that many reticles do not look like what's depicted in the manufacturers drawing.

A perfect example is the VX-6 illuminated German #4. It absolutely looks nothing like the supplied pictures.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/08/2012 at 17:33
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No one has a Zeiss with either the #54 or #56?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/09/2012 at 15:34
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I have a 1.5-6X42 Varipoint, but mine has the illuminated #60 reticle.  I believe Zeiss discontinued the #54, and I haven't seen one with the #56 in a couple years, so even though they show it on their website, it too may have been discontinued from the Varipoint line.  To the best of my recollection, all the Varipoints I'm seeing in stores and trade shows nowadays have either the #0 or #60 reticles, so it may be tough to find someone with a recent vintage Varipoint w/ 54 or 56.

Wish I could help you; sorry.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/09/2012 at 17:44
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I've owned enough Zeiss scopes over the years to say what you see is what you get on their sight.I also agree with RD these will be a little tough to find but the good people at Zeiss will change just about any reticle.Give them a call & also call SWFA to see if they can oblidge you.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/09/2012 at 18:25
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Much obliged gentlemen.

I was curious as there's another optics vendor that had both a Varipoint 1.5-6x42mm #54 and a Varipoint 2.5-10x42mm #56 for several hundred $ off regular prices.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/09/2012 at 20:28
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Those may be previous generation Varipoints without "LotuTec" outer lens coatings, which could explain the discounted prices.  The 2.5-10X42 has also been discontinued in favor of the 2.5-10X50.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/09/2012 at 21:15
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Yeah, I'm rather disappointed that Zeiss discontinued their 2.5-10x42mm scopes. An all time favorite of mine.

My understanding on the Varipoints that were being offered is they do indeed have the LotuTec coatings. Just left over discontinued stock that the vendor is trying to liquidate.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/10/2012 at 08:36
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Ah yes; I understand.  If they're significantly discounted, I'd say go for it even without benefit of an actual reticle pic.  Those scopes are so nice, I'd be willing to bet you'd love it regardless of which reticle you got. 

I don't think I've ever seen the #54 "live" before, but I have seen the #56 in many scopes, and I thought it was a pretty cool reticle.  The current #60 is similar to the 56, except it adds thin crosshairs inside the thick outer bars at 3:00, 6:00, and 9:00, along with a thin crosshair at 12:00, like a #4a.  The center dot is the same size on all Varipoints. 

You may already be aware of this but...one cool feature of the Varipoint reticles is the dot is in the 2nd focal plane, so it's non-magnifying and remains small at high magnification whereas the rest of the reticle (everything in black) is in the 1st focal plane and stays in proportion with the size of the target image.  The exception is the #0 reticle, which is just the dot only.

The other cool thing about the Varipoint reticles is the dot is self-adjusting for light intensity to maintain optimal contrast.  When you're in bright light, the dot automatically gets brighter, and in dim light, it gets dimmer.  So, you just set illumination intensity to the level you prefer to avoid over-illumination in low light and, if you choose to use illumination during daylight, it auto-compensates in bright light.

I agree with you on the 2.5-10X42; I wish they hadn't discontinued it.  I have a pre-LotuTec 2.5-10X50, and although I love the scope, I really prefer a 42mm objective over the 50 because I don't like the objective bell to be wider than my rifle's forend and don't see enough performance advantage for the 50 - to me - to offset the increased bulk.  I bought the 50 over the 42 only because it had a discontinued reticle and I got a great deal on it.

Let us know what you decide, and if you get one or both scopes, let us know what you think of it/them.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/10/2012 at 10:03
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I know that Zeiss makes some of the very best glass available, so I don't understand why more long distance shooters don't use them?  They tend to use Schmidt and Bender or Nightforce.  Anyone know why?  What magnification would you recommend for 1000-1200 yard shooting.  Also, the hybrid you mentioned sounds like a great idea.  I don't understand why people usually go with a FFP.  At very long distances, I'd be worried that the dot or lines could obscure the target.  So it seems more logical to go with a SFP, but no one ever does.  I've asked this question on other forums, but no one ever responds.  I guess they think it's a stupid question and maybe it is, but I don't want to shell out that much cash without being educated.  The FFP vs SFP is making me crazy!!!!  Could someone PLEASE educate me?  Also, info regarding the best magnification for long distances would be greatly appreciated!!!!  Thanks in advance!!! Big Grin
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Originally posted by dnilson dnilson wrote:

I know that Zeiss makes some of the very best glass available, so I don't understand why more long distance shooters don't use them?
  Good question and I don't really know except cost maybe?
 
Originally posted by dnilson dnilson wrote:

 They tend to use Schmidt and Bender or Nightforce.  Anyone know why? 
Most people that I shoot with use NF because they very strong scopes they have the IMO best reticle selection and the turrets adjustments are repeatable.
 
 
Originally posted by dnilson dnilson wrote:

 What magnification would you recommend for 1000-1200 yard shooting.
  As much as you can but with the understanding that most of the time mirage limits you to about 12-18 power.  Another consideration is a higher power scope generally has less windage and elevation adjustment range. 
Originally posted by dnilson dnilson wrote:

 Also, the hybrid you mentioned sounds like a great idea.  I don't understand why people usually go with a FFP.  At very long distances, I'd be worried that the dot or lines could obscure the target.  So it seems more logical to go with a SFP, but no one ever does.  I've asked this question on other forums, but no one ever responds.
  Most people that I shoot with almost exclusively use SFP for the reason that you mention.  I would guess that others use FFP because they are shooting variable unknown ranges and the FFP offers an advantage in speed in ranging.  I prefer SFP for the same reason that you are concerned about.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/10/2012 at 12:26
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Originally posted by dnilson dnilson wrote:

I know that Zeiss makes some of the very best glass available, so I don't understand why more long distance shooters don't use them?  They tend to use Schmidt and Bender or Nightforce.  Anyone know why? 


Up until the recent introduction of the Zeiss Victory FL a couple years ago, they didn't offer a scope that combined LR turrets, parallax adjustment, ranging reticles, and enough elevation travel for dedicated LR use all in the same scope, except under the Hensoldt brand (a division of Zeiss).  Hensoldt is definitely a contender in LR shooting.  Most Zeiss branded scopes (again, with the recent exception of the FL) are designed for traditional hunting, whereas S&B, NF, USO, Premier, etc. produce purpose-designed LR tactical/ target scopes.  Zeiss does offer the Rapid-Z holdover reticle in their hunting scope line, which sorta bridges the gap between a traditional hunting scope and a dedicated LR scope, but holdover is less precise than dialing in drop dope.

Originally posted by dnilson dnilson wrote:

What magnification would you recommend for 1000-1200 yard shooting.


Depends on what you're shooting.  For a tactical rifle, shooting at man sized targets and steel plates and where you'd be ranging targets at unknown distances, I think variables topping out at between 12X - 20X is about right.  For LR Benchrest shooting in good light, you can basically use as much magnification as you can afford. 

Originally posted by dnilson dnilson wrote:

I don't understand why people usually go with a FFP.  At very long distances, I'd be worried that the dot or lines could obscure the target.  So it seems more logical to go with a SFP, but no one ever does.  I've asked this question on other forums, but no one ever responds.  I guess they think it's a stupid question and maybe it is, but I don't want to shell out that much cash without being educated.  The FFP vs SFP is making me crazy!!!!  Could someone PLEASE educate me?


I don't necessarily agree that people "usually" go with FFP.  The topic of FFP vs. SFP has been discussed thoroughly here, so you can find plenty of info by using the search function. 

In a nutshell, both have advantages and disadvantages.  If you're ranging targets with your reticle, FFP provides the advantage of allowing you to range targets at any power setting without mathematically factoring differences in magnification.  SFP ranging reticles are calibrated for only 1 magnification.  FFP reticles are in the same focal plane as the target image, so they are magnified together.  Although a FFP reticle visually increases in size as magnification is increased, it always remains the same size relative to the target and always subtends the same amount of the target.  It doesn't grow too coarse and cover too much of the target at high magnification as long as it doesn't cover too much of the target at low magnification, as the target and reticle always retain the same proportional relationship at all magnifications.  SFP reticles are located on the eyepiece side of the zoom tube/erector assembly, so aren't magnified with the target image.  SFP is helpful in situations where you want the finest aiming point possible, such as static, known distance target shooting or small varmint shooting, where the targets are tiny.  Since SFP reticles remains the same apparent size regardless of magnification, it actually subtends LESS of the target as magnification is increased.

FFP also gives you the advantage of being able to increase the visibility of your reticle in really low light by turning up magnification a bit, but it may make the reticle too thin for low light visibility at low magnification.  Conversely, SFP reticles sometimes can be too thin for good visibility at any magnification, depending on the design, and what you see is what you get at all magnifications.  Usually, they are more visible at low magnification than FFP, though... again, depending on the design of both styles being compared.

SFP reticles are more likely to shift POI with power changes, because it's possible for the reticle's position relative to the target image to shift when power is changed since they are on different focal planes and a SFP reticle cell can be influenced by movement in the zoom tube.  This usually doesn't happen with a high quality SFP scope, but it's more likely to happen than with FFP.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/10/2012 at 16:21
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Thank you all for the information!!!!  It was very helpful!  I have a nerve injury in my leg.  It's severe enough that if the house was on fire, I couldn't run out.  However, I can walk with a cane.  Therefore, I think my only option is LR benchrest.  Given that information, don't you think it makes more sense to go with a high powered SFP, because the targets are small and the distances are long!  I've heard some people go up to 40-50 magnification!  Also, what type of reticle would you choose?  Thanks in advance!  Also, I'm not expecting you guys to spoon feed me...I am doing research on my own, but it's difficult when you don't have a mentor and are brand new.  Thanks in advance! Big Grin
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/10/2012 at 16:49
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Originally posted by dnilson dnilson wrote:

Therefore, I think my only option is LR benchrest.  Given that information, don't you think it makes more sense to go with a high powered SFP, because the targets are small and the distances are long!  I've heard some people go up to 40-50 magnification!  Also, what type of reticle would you choose? 


Yes, absolutely, SFP is your best choice for benchrest, if you're going with a variable power scope.  I would seriously consider a fixed power scope, as there's less chance of POI shift in a fixed power and you're always shooting at a small target, so FOV isn't a consideration.  For BR, I would get either a standard fine crosshair or a fine crosshair/dot.  You want a super fine reticle for that sport, as you're always shooting in good light and you're often aiming at bullet holes.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/10/2012 at 17:53
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Rifledude offets some good advice. I have a somewhat different take. For long range benchrest mirage limits your max powerto about 24 but when conditions are good you will want as much as you can get. Field of view can be important for sighting in and helping to observe wind changes. Especially when the wind changes your impact and you need to correct your hold off. A variable power scope is not a source of error for long distance shooting because many other sources of error have a larger effect.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/10/2012 at 18:31
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It's so hard to decide...Zeiss, S&B, Swarovski, NP?  which of those 4 would you choose?  I'm going to start looking at specific models and will post for you opinions.  Thanks again for your help!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/10/2012 at 20:33
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Originally posted by dnilson dnilson wrote:

It's so hard to decide...Zeiss, S&B, Swarovski, NP?  which of those 4 would you choose?  I'm going to start looking at specific models and will post for you opinions.  Thanks again for your help!


Eliminate Swaro right away.  As fine as their hunting scopes are, they simply don't offer a scope that's suitable for LR benchrest shooting.  In that price bracket and for what you're wanting to do, I'd probably get either the March fixed power benchrest 50X52 or the variable March-X 5-50X56 (yes that isn't a typo, it's a 10:1 zoom range), and I'd either get their plain crosshair or 1/16 MOA or 1/8 MOA dot reticle.  The variable has SFP reticle.  FFP probably wouldn't work very well in a 10:1 zoom ratio scope, as the reticle would either be way too fine on the low end, way too coarse on the high end, or both.  You really have to see these fine scopes to appreciate how incredible they are optically.  March is very popular in competition shooting, especially benchrest, and for good reason.  These scopes are mechanical marvels.
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