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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2006 at 00:05
Roy Finn View Drop Down
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I believe you are the one and any others whow could help me with this one. I own a a Reminton 700 Custom African  Shop rifle in 300 WM and I am considering one of the top three. My concern is that it is a heavy rifle ( liminate stock) and I really don't want to add much more wight to this rifle. I am leaning towards the Swarovski PH and I was woundering if you could help me out on this one. Hlease help if you could. I know that they are all top shelf scopes. This gun is deadly accurate, and would be used forlong range shooting. I am not a fan of lit reticles.

Edited by Roy Finn
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2006 at 06:25
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Roy:

I can't say enough good things about your choices scopes!

(What, no 4200 Elite this time??)  The horror!!!!

 

If weight is a concern, I think the list gets shorter. The S&B will probably be the heavy weight of that group. I assume, anyway.

 

I like Zeiss!!

The Diavari would be my pick out an already great line up, Brother. 

 

No lit reticle for me either.......



Edited by cheaptrick
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2006 at 10:06
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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Roy why not try out Leo LPS and let us know how it works out. I spent an interesting day in Cabala's gun library the other day, not the web one the real one. After looking at $10,000 to $20,000 (most had mounts that were a joke) African hunting rifles all day, most had 3 features in common, one of the big three scopes and none had been shot much and they all had stories that fit into a romance novel. After looking through 20-30 of the big 3 scopes I couldn't tell one from the other- I'm sure it was just me.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2006 at 13:57
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Roy, say it isn't so.  You have just turned my world upside down.  Anarchy, total anarchy.  Cats living with dogs.  I am going back to my happy place where Roy Finn uses 4200s with rainguard!

 

ranburr

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2006 at 16:26
BillD1 View Drop Down
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Roy,

I am also shock, It was your past post that talked me into buying a 4200 for my either my 270 or 30-06.  Heck, I even thought the last four digits of your social security number is 4200.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2006 at 17:17
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Originally posted by BillD1 BillD1 wrote:

Heck, I even thought the last four digits of your social security number is 4200.

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/30/2006 at 23:09
Roy Finn View Drop Down
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After owning 6 4200, I thought what is all this rave about $1500 scopes. I can tell you with absolute certainty that if I don't see a BIG difference, it's going straight to the samplelist, which means there better be a huge difference!!!

 

P.S. I think you know from my posts how I feel about Leupold scopes. They are very over priced in my opinion and cannot compare to a 4200. I think allot of others feel the same way and for good reason.

 

Bill I take it you are as impressed withe the 4200 as I am!!!

 

A foot note: After reading John Barsness Book, Optics for the Hunter he stated that he and other testers could not tell the difference between the Swarovski AV 3-19x42 and their 2.5-10x42 PH. I don't what to make this gun any heavier than it already is, so the AV is also looking like a viable option. I have to reiterate that I still think the 4200 is one of the best scopes available for the money.The thought of dropping another thousand bucks still has me wondering. Also, for all you Zeiss heads out there, is the 3.5-10x44 Conquest  noticeably better than my 4200? And I mean noticeable.If you had to choose between the Conquest 3.5-10x44 and the Swarovski AV 3-10x42, which would you choose and why?



Edited by Roy Finn
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2006 at 23:34
BillD1 View Drop Down
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Roy,

There was a time when I thought that a hunting rifle had to wear a scope with a gold ring.  Most hunters on hunting shows usually had a rifle with a gold ring.  Too me it seemed to symbolize a marriage between the hunter and his equipment in the great outdoors, and yes those gold ring guys do make a very good product.  I remember the very first rifle I bought, it had to wear a Leupold no if, and, or but about it.  It seemed that most people had gold ring scopes, and so shall I.  Then I bought another rifle and came up a little short on cash, so I had to settle for a Redfield Tracker, not a bad scope, killed a lot of deer, held zero fairly well.  The next rifle wore a Simmons 44 Mag and then an AETEC both not bad scopes killed a lot of deer.  Now lets fast forward a little to the present with the Conquest, 4200, and the Burris FF2, and now the difference between these scopes is like going from night to day. I knew there was going to be a difference from my old scopes to my new ones, but one would expect that because of the lept in quality. 
   So to answer your question, yes I am impressed with the 4200. It is the best bang for the buck, the only thing it is missing is a little longer eye relief.  I really like the 4200 but my eyes love the Conquest with the fast focus eyepiece, the Z plex, and the crisp and clear optics. Call it confidence, quality of equipment, or just plain luck, the Conquest has made hunting more enjoyable and helped me become a better hunter and shooter in the field.
   Now, by buying one of the top three for your custom rifle (by the way sounds like a real jewel) and lepting up to that next level and expecting to see a night to day difference well, that is going to be tough.  I am sure there is going to be a difference but is it worth the cost.  Some people hate change, then again change can be good.  I am sure there is a difference and it might be fun to experiment and see how much or how little there is. 
  Your rilfe sounds like a jewel, I am not a fan of wooden gun stocks, wood is beautiful but not very durable, but I do like the laminated stocks, a grey laminated stock with a stainless barrel and action looks sharp.  I would love to have a silver Conquest on top of a grey laminated stock with a stainless barrel.  If weight is a problem, this might sound stupid since we are talking about a custom rifle, you could take the savings from not buying one of the top three and purchase a Conquest or 4200 and buy a nice composite stock to help shed a pound or so. Composite stocks are not pretty like wood, most people do not ahhh over them, they don't have that warm feeling or rich look, but they are strong, tough durable, and get the job done.  So I guess you could say that wood reminds me of the top three and composite reminds me of the 4200. 

Hope this helps, sorry about the lenght, it was the coffee's fault

Bill

                                 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/01/2006 at 08:36
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Roy Finn,  I have spent the last several months of hunting season doing alot of in the field comparisons.  I just finished up my last hunt Sunday and was getting ready to post some findings about the scopes that I have compared.  The problem is that it is alot of information and I really don't want to bore the readers of this forum. 

 

I own a Zeiss VM/V, Zeiss conquest, Schmidt & Bender, and several Leupolds.  This fall just before hunting season I purchased 2 Swarovski PHs and I got to hunt with a friends Swarovski as well.  I compared all three Swarovskis to the scopes that I already have and I could write a novel on the things that I actually learned this year.  I tried to be objective and rule out my own bias (which we all know is hard to do).  It is hard to explain some of my conclusions in a short post and would take more than one post to give you all of the info.  I am going to try to incorporate my new info in the tbone rating scale which I really believe works fairly well.

 

In short, the S&B turned out to be my favorite for various reasons.  I would rate all three Swarovskis behind the S&B and the Zeiss for various reasons.  I didn't get to hunt much in the field with the VM/V this year due to the rifle that it is on.

 

One final note, I could not tell much difference at all between these scopes even by comparing them in low light outside.  I did this probably 6 or 7 different occasions for 30-45 minutes each time.  But I found some very noticable differences in the field when I was actually trying to take game in super low light.  I actually took several deer this year much later than I ever have before.  It made me realize just how irrelevant an in store test actually is.

 

If it were me, I would either save money and buy a Conquest or step up and get a VM/V, if you have already eliminated the S&B due to the weight.  I will be more than happy to answer any of your questions but be prepared for a very detailed answer.  Take Care.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/01/2006 at 22:55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/03/2006 at 04:05
Roy Finn View Drop Down
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BillD1, Iv'e been trying to tell these guys this or a very long time. Most agree, some just don't get it They seem to be enamored by that little pretty silver hawk on the side of the turret housing. A guy wrote here that he was able to get an extra 15 minutes of hunting time at either end of the day. Obviously never had a chance encounter with a game Warden.If there were any truth to that one I would break out the out check book pronto. The Swarovski AV is a nice scope, but come on. I didn't  just fall off the turnip truck yesterday, unless maybe I landed on my noodle. Lastly, I glad to here you like your 4200 as much as I do. About the only problem with a FireFly 4200 is a chance encounter with one of those friendly game wardens for hunting way beyond legal hunting hours.Take care Bill and good luck hunting.

Edited by Roy Finn
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/03/2006 at 21:57
BillD1 View Drop Down
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Roy,

I agree, that pretty little silver hawk could get someone in trouble, it is obvious that too much of a good thing doesn't mean it is necessarily good.  So, I am curious, have you decided on one of the top three, are ya going to stay with old reliable, or is there another candidate?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/04/2006 at 07:31
Roy Finn View Drop Down
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Like I said, the most I could see spending on a scope would be the cute little silver hawk model, the Swarovski AV. I really thing that people who see vast differences above this level of quality should have a prompt eye exam. But that just my humble opinion. Anything above that is just ego.

Edited by Roy Finn
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/04/2006 at 08:13
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Roy Finn Roy Finn wrote:

Like I said, the most I could see spending on a scope would be the cute little silver hawk model, the Swarovski AV. I really thing that people who see vast differences above this level of quality should have a prompt eye exam. But that just my humble opinion. Anything above that is just ego.

 

I'm also warming up to that same conclusion, Roy.

I've already been through the "Euro scope" phase of my life and I've come to the following conclusion:

 

The emergence of the Zeiss Conquest fills almost all my shooting needs.

 

I have honestly never been into a hunting situation with a Conquest where I felt "under scoped".

It's optical quality, durability, and reliability has actually surpassed my expectations.

 

That said, the Conquest is somewhat compromised admittedly by it's plastic turrets, 1" tube and lack of elevation available. The elevation problem is easily fixed with a simple 20 moa P rail. 

 

For a simple 3-9 power scope, the turrets are usually only adjusted a handful of times anyway, primarily during sight in, so the shooter isn't having to bother with them much.

The higher magnifaction models do offer fairly rugged target knobs for us "clickers".        

 

Are the S&B's and Zeiss a "better" scope than the Conquest or your beloved 4200?? 

From a purely optical quality point of view...Yes.

Are they worth the money?......Depends.

 

 

 

 



Edited by cheaptrick
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