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ZEISS RAPID Z

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/25/2008 at 16:22
epinlasvegas View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
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Thinking of putting the rapid z 600 on a custom 18 inch ar-15.I would use it for various varmints etc.I was trying to reaearch the rapid z and it says it is for common calibers?Is the rapid z 600 set up for 223 or would i need the rapid z varmint reticle which i cant seem to find?Thanks.Also anyone have this set up and do they like it?Thanks for your time
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/25/2008 at 18:30
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Welcome to The OT!!
 
I'm tagging this one with ya to find out some info on the Rapid Z myself, friend.  
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/25/2008 at 19:04
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Hey ep, welcome to the forum
 
You need to go to the Zeiss website http://www.zeiss.com/C1256BCF0020BE5F?Open
and click on the RapidZ Calculator which is just to the left of the middle at the bottom.  You have to login and put your info into the boxes.
 
For a 223 shooting a 55 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip bullet at 3200 fps ballistic coefficient of .267, you put that in there and then hit the submit data button.  Then you can hit Reticle Analysis at the bottom right and then the Optimize Power buttom and it will show you at what range (9.21) each of the bars will be to fit those ballistics.  It is not very close for this reticle and those ballistics.  Then you can change the reticle to the Varmint one and Optimize Power again and the impact points will get a lot closer to even 300, 400, 500 and be right on at 600 yards with the power set at 7.3
 
Now I don't know about you but having a high powered scope and setting it way down on 7.3 power does not sound like an optimal situation to me.  So IMO another reticle like the Burris Ballistic Mil Dot which is specifically made for a 22-250 shooting a 55 gr bullet might be a better choice.  At least with the 4x16 Black Diamond it tells you to shoot at 14 power.
 
Of course this also depends upon the twist of your barrel and if you have a 1 in 8 and need to shoot a 75 gr bullet then this all changes.  What bullet are you shooting and how fast?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/25/2008 at 19:31
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Optics GrassHopper
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The barrel is 1 in 7 i would be shooting probably 75 grain Hornadys and maybe the black hills 69 grains(I think) also 62grain S and B greentips,those are what the manufacturer recommends.I am new to scopes and want a good one but i dont want to get a giant beast of a scope for such a tiny rifle.So i see you download it on the website.i just wanted to make sure everything i would be using is available on this scope and if not i am looking at Kahles ,Swarovski and meopta but i am not sure about the best reticles to get with those and the Zeiss looked fairly simple.my budget would be 700.00 at the top as i would have to get a Larue mount for a couple hundred as well.Thanks for the speedy reply and welcomes!Big%20Smile

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/25/2008 at 19:46
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Optics GrassHopper
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I just figured out the website and got the hornady match 75 grain 223 in the system.I am still a bit confused as to whether the rapid z varmint is a completely different scope reticle and if so i did not see it at swfa.I think i will be able to figure it out if i go with the Zeiss.It will be a couple weeks before i get one anyway.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/25/2008 at 21:23
sakomato View Drop Down
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Well shooting that bullet which has a ballistic coefficient of .395 and a muzzle velocity of 2790 fps with a high mount of 2.5 inches like you have to do with the AR's, then the 3x9x40 with the RapidZ 600 would indeed be a good choice.  The ballistics work out so you set your scope at 6.76 power and the bars will be at
 
Bar 1 - 306 yards
Bar 2 - 404 yards
Bar 3 - 505 yards
Bar 4 - 600 yards
 
That's pretty close.  Believe me if you can shoot well enough with a 18.5" barrel to hit something at 600 yards then good for you.  At least you will have an aiming point.
 
I have an 223 AR with a 24" 1 in 8 twist barrel
 
 
and it shoots 60 gr bullets into 3", 68 gr bullets into 1 1/2" and 75 gr bullets into 3/4".  So with your 1 in 7 twist I would be surprised if you gun didn't like the 75 gr bullets best.  Also if your picatinny rail in flat to the gun and not elevated you will need the Ultra High rings and that will be barely high enough.
 
So the 3x9x40 Zeiss RapidZ 600 would be a very good choice.  It is small enough and they are excellent scopes.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/25/2008 at 21:26
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Thanks! That sounds good.Nice Looking ar.Yippee
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/25/2008 at 22:55
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Check out this thread.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/2008 at 00:04
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My take on the rapid z reticles is that the rapid Z1000 is the pick of the litter if you are really looking for long range because the reticle takes into account the limited amount of internal adjustment in these scopes and compensates for it by starting higher than the center cross hairs.  The down side of balictic reticles is that second focal plane balistic reticles only work on the highest power. A First focal plane reticle will hold true for known hold over at any power an example of this is the Leupold mark 4 3.5-10x40 FFP. The problem with using a second focal plane scope with balistic reticle for hunting is that most of those scopes are mid to high magnification scopes over say 3x to 9x. Most hunting shots are best done at about 3x to 6x with occasional use at 9x or higher if you hunt from a fixed position.  There are some scopes that have other systems in place that work very well and in fact might be a better choice one is the Kahles scopes with the multizero feature. The other solution and probably best of all solutions is to put Kenton target knobs on a scope with balistic calibrated marks on the knobs  http://www.kentonindustries.com/ in this case it does not matter that the scope is second focal plane when you adjust the target knob you are adjusting where the crosshair center is to correspond to the particular distance that you are shooting so it doesnt make any difference if you are at 3x or 20x  you are on target. Use that with a good rangefinder and you will be more likely to be successful. This of course does not mean that you should not consider Zeiss because the have great glass and one of their scopes with target knobs would be ideal irregardless of reticle.  If you should select the Rapid Z reticle you can still dial in correction with marked knobs if you need to use a power other than the one that the manufacturer suggests.  Now how you find where 7.3 is on the power ring is probably rough estimate as I doubt the power ring is marked in tenths but it could be so ask.   Also worth mention is that one of the advantages of a variable scope is that you can dial down the power at dusk to brighten up the image by having a larger exit eye pupil - (more light comming through the scope at lower power).
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/2008 at 00:29
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
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.223 75 gr BH  Z1000 at 12.1x
bar1 150
bar2 226
bar3 321
bar4 409
bar5 500
bar6 588
bar7 676
bar8 762
bar9 848
bar10 933
this seems quite acceptable to me.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/2008 at 09:22
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Optics GrassHopper
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Thanks for all the reply's.I am beginning to realize how complicated scopes are and how little i know.I will be doing a lot more thinking now instead of wasting money not understanding what im doing.Thanks again.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/2008 at 09:50
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rapid z's are designed with the same thought in mind as the leupold bas system. That is to say there will be groups of cartridges that are in the same trajectory group regardless of caliber, bc, and velocity, There 600 is designed for lower end groups such as 223, heavy wt. 30-06, and something like a 375, the 800 is the middle group, 308 types, 6 mm etc, and the 1000 is for a group like the 30-378, 6.5x284. Leo does this with their rangefinders, group A,B,C and their varmit reticles by using the group you are shootiing with a marking on the varible ring. If the cartridge is "flatter shooting" higher variable powers because a sfp decrease in power will raise the poi, lower powers for less flat cartridges. Swaro uses the same method, but groups by numbers. so something like a 8 would not be a relatively flat shooter.
having the bar markings hit whole numbered yardages is completely unnessary as very few targets will be exactly at say 200 yards. this is taken care of in two ways
first say the target is 234 yds but your bar is sighted for poi at 200, simply hold at 200 and dial in 3 clicks which will correct. ( biggest downfall is forgetting to reset back to zero). but its even easier than that. using an 8 inch target -- there is a 4 in. window above and below the center theoretical poa. the top of that will be at say 187 yds, and the bottom of the window will be at something like 226 yds. extending the hit zone in reality between 187 yds to 226 yds with say only a 200 yd hold.
bdc reticles can be used for range finding just as mil-dot or ffp types, if you want to range at 1/2 the max. power just double the figures.
the rapid z reticles is the best thing that has happened to zeiss scopes since they discover plactic.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/27/2008 at 00:08
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
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Dont let all of this info intimidate you. The Zeiss scopes are very nice and you would be happy with one.  Any set up takes time to get used to what it will do.  A lot of rifles out there are simply not as accurate as one might wish. There are things that you can do to aid your success like replacing the trigger with a gazelle trigger, and longer heavier barrels are typically better for accuracy but eaven then accruacy can depend on things like how the crown is cut, there are numerous factors and you can learn a lot from the guys on here. I would not be hesitant to buy a Zeiss  Rapid Z scope but I would definately want target knobs.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/29/2008 at 16:06
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Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

Dont let all of this info intimidate you. The Zeiss scopes are very nice and you would be happy with one.  Any set up takes time to get used to what it will do.  A lot of rifles out there are simply not as accurate as one might wish. There are things that you can do to aid your success like replacing the trigger with a gazelle trigger, and longer heavier barrels are typically better for accuracy but eaven then accruacy can depend on things like how the crown is cut, there are numerous factors and you can learn a lot from the guys on here. I would not be hesitant to buy a Zeiss  Rapid Z scope but I would definately want target knobs.
 
Correct. The Rapid Z system is one of the most simple to use. Just match the scope with the bullet weight & put it in the calculator & you'll know where to hold each bar.
 
Another thing that makes it a whole lot easier is having a range finder. If an animal is at say 315 yards & you know your first bar is set at 307, just hold  right over the heart behind the shoulder with your second bar & you'll be dead on.
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