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Zeiss Probelm?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/04/2007 at 22:27
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Looking for some feedback here.  Recently purchased a brand new Rem 700 SPS in 25/06 and a Zeiss Conquest 3.5x10x44 scope and Leupold one piece base and medium rings.
 
Took the entire package to a reputable gunsmith that has done great work for friends of mine to have the scope mounted, rifle bedded, floated, trigger cleaned up and recut the crown. 
 
Here comes the problem....
 
I go to the the range and with 2 different types of factory ammo I am shooting 8 inch groups.  The scope adjustments are not acting correctly, i.e. when moving 4 clicks left the point of impact moves 3 inches right.  When moving 4 clicks up the point of impact is 4 inches up.  Now before you say I obviously can't shoot, I can assure you that is not the case.  I have a couple of sub moa rifles that perform flawlessly.  I know it's not me but I don't know what it is. 
 
The constant is a 4 shot group with 2 shots 4 inches left of zero and 2 shots 4 inches right of zero without ever adjusting the scope.  In addition the scope will be in perfect focus and then get really out of focus seemingly without making any adjustments.   This focus issue only happens after sunset shooting under artifical light....  I have shot the barrel cold and warm and did not see any appreciable difference.
 
I have checked all of the screws and none were loose. 
 
Has anybody had a similar problem?  Any suggestions on what might cause the point of impact to vary 8 inches at 100 yards on a straight horizontal line?   Do I have a bad scope?
 
Thanks for the help in advance...
 
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/04/2007 at 23:11
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Well! Something is loose somewhere!!!!.......Your problem is in either one or two areas or possibly both.............The reticle in the scope could possibly be defective or a problem with the adjustment settings themselves. If that is the case then the scope is defective......If you checked all the base mounts and scope ring screws to be sure they are tight, then the other possibility is that the rifle was bedded and floated improperly......My gutt feeling is that the problem is in the scope. But, take it back to the gunsmith and tell him your problem and have him re-check his work. Beforehand, you may want to take a scope off of another rifle and mount it on the Remy. It is a PIA, but you need to find some consistency or the opposite to solve the problem. If you don`t have the same consistent problem, then its the scope for sure! If you do, then its the rifle!.... To begin, try switching the scopes, bore sight it and go to the range again.............
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2007 at 06:26
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Check your action screws!  Both should be torqued to 55 inch/pounds if aluminum bedded, try 45 inch/pounds into glass.  Loose action screws can cause lots of problems. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2007 at 07:53
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im going to blame re-cutting the crown and just go out on a limb here, or else something isnt right with the bedding job
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2007 at 09:17
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Can you get another scope to put on and try? That would address that variable, if your smith can put a bore sighter on the gun he should be able to check the tracking right away. I'm with Big Squeeze on this one.......eliminate the scope as a culprit first before addressing the rifle. Sure sounds scope or mounts related to me.

   Focus


Edited by Focus - December/05/2007 at 09:30
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2007 at 18:10
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Thanks for the insight everybody...  I will switch scopes and see what happens this weekend...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2007 at 18:30
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Keep us posted, Someone else may have this problem down the line. WELCOME to the OT.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2007 at 18:59
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You have a bad scope.  A poorly cut crown won't cause groups to act consistently as in the manner you indicated, and loose action screws probably wouldn't shift groups quite that much.  The other problems focusing, etc. point to to scope as the clear villian here, assuming it is mounted securely.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2007 at 19:29
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Let me tell you a little bit about my experience with loose action screws.  A good buddy of mine, who is a good shot, fired at the same deer 4 times last fall with his .300 winmag Browning Stainless Stalker from as far as 100 yards to as close as 35 yards.  (OK, maybe the deer was deaf.)  The 35 yard hit the deer IN THE HEAD.  My buddy was holding center chest.  Of course, the deer went down like it had been struck by lighting.  My friend called me in a panic, thinking his scope was broken.  I calmly instructed him to check the scope mount screws, which were tight.  I then told him to check the action screws, which were not tight.  He torqued them and went to the range the next day.  One shot, one hole 1 inch high at 100 yards.  Right where he thought he had it zeroed.  Next shot, while hunting, he killed his nicest deer of his life at 238 yards.  

Loose action screws can really mess up a group!  Even the amount of torque can change things.  I shoot a CZ452 Varmint competitively here in NC.  If my action screws are torqued to 20 in/lbs I get one holers at 50 yards.  Crank `em down to 24 in/lbs and the group doubles in size.  Go figure that one out! 
 
Good luck.  I hope it's not your scope!  That would be a pain. 
 
Drummer
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2007 at 19:37
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oh come on guys a scope never is the problem its gotta be the crownClown
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2007 at 21:58
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Originally posted by ncdrummer ncdrummer wrote:

Let me tell you a little bit about my experience with loose action screws.  A good buddy of mine, who is a good shot, fired at the same deer 4 times last fall with his .300 winmag Browning Stainless Stalker from as far as 100 yards to as close as 35 yards.  (OK, maybe the deer was deaf.)  The 35 yard hit the deer IN THE HEAD.  My buddy was holding center chest.  Of course, the deer went down like it had been struck by lighting.  My friend called me in a panic, thinking his scope was broken.  I calmly instructed him to check the scope mount screws, which were tight.  I then told him to check the action screws, which were not tight.  He torqued them and went to the range the next day.  One shot, one hole 1 inch high at 100 yards.  Right where he thought he had it zeroed.  Next shot, while hunting, he killed his nicest deer of his life at 238 yards.  

Loose action screws can really mess up a group!  Even the amount of torque can change things.  I shoot a CZ452 Varmint competitively here in NC.  If my action screws are torqued to 20 in/lbs I get one holers at 50 yards.  Crank `em down to 24 in/lbs and the group doubles in size.  Go figure that one out! 
 
Good luck.  I hope it's not your scope!  That would be a pain. 
 
Drummer
 
  Drummer, this is your lucky day! I'm in the mood for a friendly argument! Before I begin, I want you to know that you are correct, loose action screws CAN cause problems, but NOT to the degree you imply with your buddy's hunting failure.  Think about it. He supposedly missed a deer's heart by 24 (?) inches @ 35 yards. (Head shot.) That translates to about 72 Minutes of Angle. From loose Action screws? No way.  Even if the screws had fallen out completely and he had to shoot the barreled action minus the stock, his point of impact would not have been more than a couple , MAYBE 10 M.O.A. off. He just plain buck-fevered, I say!  (Not trying to knock you, trying to get your buddy to admit that he FAILED!)  Wink
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2007 at 00:14
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Hey Drummer, how come you are complaining? One holers at 50 yards... torque them up... group doubles in size. Sounds good to me!
 
One bullet, one hole! When your group doubles in size... you get twice as many bullets in one hole! Smile  I could live with that!
 
Just busting your chops. I knew exactly what you meant. It just struck me funny!
 
Cheers!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2007 at 06:31
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I'm still trying to figure out the shooting under lights and the scope holding focus till the night shooting. Must be a lit range.....he can't be varmint hunting with the gun shooting like described. To go left and than right and to track real wonky along with a loss of focus, it has to be the scope I would say. Well if its scope he has a brand and model that will get serviced or replaced quickly with no hassle.

  Focus

  


Edited by Focus - December/06/2007 at 18:20
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2007 at 18:07
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ARGGGHH!  My chops get busted enough at the house!!  OK, my bet is this:  It probably is your scope!!  OK?  But simply checking action screws is lots easier than changing scopes.  And it really could be the problem.  It's within the realm of reality!  So check it first and see. 
 
My hunting buddy's head-shot story is true.  I know it sounds embellished, but...  it's a hunting story.  Aren't they all true? 
 
BTW, does doubling the size of a one-holer make it a two-holer?  Just wondering!  Wink
 
Shoot straight.  Drummer
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2007 at 18:22
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BTW, does doubling the size of a one-holer make it a two-holer?  Just wondering!  Wink

Are we talking outhouses or targets? ErmmTongue

    Focus
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2007 at 18:39
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side by side outhouses look kind funny
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2007 at 20:57
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Originally posted by ncdrummer ncdrummer wrote:

ARGGGHH!  My chops get busted enough at the house!!  OK, my bet is this:  It probably is your scope!!  OK?  But simply checking action screws is lots easier than changing scopes.  And it really could be the problem.  It's within the realm of reality!  So check it first and see. 
 
My hunting buddy's head-shot story is true.  I know it sounds embellished, but...  it's a hunting story.  Aren't they all true? 
 
BTW, does doubling the size of a one-holer make it a two-holer?  Just wondering!  Wink
 
Shoot straight.  Drummer
 
 
 
 I really didn't mean to bust your chops, my friend!  I have no doubt that he shot a deer in the head  either.  I was just pointing out that in my opinion he was blaming loose screws,(the cause of a small accuracy error) for a very large miss, which was probably due to a  very wobbly hold or a jerked trigger or something similar in the "nut behind the wheel" dept.
 For my last word on the subject, loosen his action screws and fire it from a benchrest.
The point of impact will not be 2 feet from the point of aim at 35 yards! ( Don't really do this though, as you could crack his stock!.) I'm shutting up now....Smile
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/08/2007 at 19:06
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Good point.  I'll be at the range tomorrow with my 5-R.  I'll test her out.  BTY, the same buddy killed a MASSIVE buck from the same stand this morning.  24 ihches outside.  With the same .300 Winmag.  Still hasn't had to re-check those screws...  Drummer.  It was truly a great day in Charlotte, NC. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/08/2007 at 19:16
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Originally posted by ncdrummer ncdrummer wrote:

Good point.  I'll be at the range tomorrow with my 5-R.  I'll test her out.  BTY, the same buddy killed a MASSIVE buck from the same stand this morning.  24 ihches outside.  With the same .300 Winmag.  Still hasn't had to re-check those screws...  Drummer.  It was truly a great day in Charlotte, NC. 
 
 WOW!  Congratulations to your buddy! And post pictures of the buck!  I want to see the hole in it's head!  Smoking%20Bandit    Just kidding!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/08/2007 at 19:32
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Where do you shoot around Charlotte, Bro?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/08/2007 at 20:25
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I'm a member at Charlotte Rifle and Pistol.  It's the best range I've ever shot on, military included.  We have 300 yards on the rifle range, two 75 yard plinking ranges, a shorter plinker, a IPSC/action pistol range, and full shotgun, including trap, several skeet, and sporting clays.  Heck, we even have an archery range.  Also, we have the best indoor pistol range in the Carolinas!  Drummer
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/08/2007 at 20:32
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Here's Archie's buck, Ya'll.  It was a great day in Charlotte!!
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/08/2007 at 20:33
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Nice!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/09/2007 at 05:53
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Originally posted by ncdrummer ncdrummer wrote:

I'm a member at Charlotte Rifle and Pistol.  It's the best range I've ever shot on, military included.  We have 300 yards on the rifle range, two 75 yard plinking ranges, a shorter plinker, a IPSC/action pistol range, and full shotgun, including trap, several skeet, and sporting clays.  Heck, we even have an archery range.  Also, we have the best indoor pistol range in the Carolinas!  Drummer
 
 
Oh yeah, you HAVE to be an NRA member, THAT'S why I never bothered joining....Shocked
That and and a guy told me you HAVE to "prospect" for a while too.....So they can make sure your a "safe shooter"......Bucky  
 
C'est la vie.....Sad
 
Not a slam on you Drummer, glad you like it there.
 
I have met some guys that are members, Bill Gallagher of Shamrock Training for one, and been approached by several others to join, but I respectfully declined because my "religious beliefs" didn't coincide with the club....Wink


Edited by cheaptrick - December/09/2007 at 06:05
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/09/2007 at 06:05
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Great looking buck!! Where did he take him? 
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