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Zeiss or SWFA on these guns- asking your opinions

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2010 at 02:18
paulsfin View Drop Down
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Hello,
I just bought a Super Sniper 10x42 (rear focus) and a Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14x50mm. My question to everyone on this forum that sees this thread is this...
 
If you had a Remington model 700 LTR and a Ruger 10/22 VLEH Target Tactical, which scope would you put on which rifle?
 
Would anyone put a 10 power or even a 14 power scope on a 22? Also, can the Remington shoot out far enough accurately to justify needing a 30mm tube? Remember the LTR is a 20" barrel.
 
Your expert thoughts and advice are much appreciated.
 
Paul 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2010 at 05:33
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 There is a post on here if you try searching where someone use a 20x SS on his 22lr for 50 foot indoor league and it works for him.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2010 at 07:45
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Welcome to Optics Talk.
 
I like both scopes for the LTR, but not sure I like either for the Ruger. 
What application is the 10/22 going to be used for?
 
The LTR is a .308, and not a .223, I presume?  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2010 at 08:03
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If it is a .308, even with a 20" barrel, it will reach 1000 yards easily, with properly loaded 175 grain or 155 grain bullets. Even 18" barrels can still reach out there! My concern would be with the amount of internal adjustment in the Zeiss, because if dialing corrections, and shooting long range, a 20" barrel does require more than say a 24" barrel, due to less muzzle velocity. 


Edit to add that the bullet weights are my opinion, there are others just those would be my choice in .308 winchester.


Edited by billyburl2 - April/25/2010 at 08:05
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2010 at 08:21
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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one problem with high power glass on a 22lr is the target perspective. Since most shots are within 300 yds, the target seems very close in relation to the distance being shot, thus the extra magnification makes windage holdoff difficult. the windage adjustment for 300 yds, for example is more like the windage adjustment for a 1000 yd. 308 shot. I would put the 10x on the 22 for the simple reason the turret adjustments would be much easier and more reliable than the conquest. If you are "gallery" shooting with the 22 high mag. is ok because no adjustments are made. While a semi 308 will do a 1000 yd, its a poor choice for the job, and used because nothing better is available, however 500 yd. head shots aren't that difficult with a scope in the 14x class. While bullet choice is important it has more to do with the trigger release. AR10s aren't like shooting a 15 and take considerably more practice.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2010 at 11:18
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Try them on both and see what works best for you and what you're doing with the rifles. You've got 2 really good scopes B.T.W.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2010 at 16:15
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Originally posted by Dale Clifford Dale Clifford wrote:

one problem with high power glass on a 22lr is the target perspective. Since most shots are within 300 yds, the target seems very close in relation to the distance being shot, thus the extra magnification makes windage holdoff difficult. the windage adjustment for 300 yds, for example is more like the windage adjustment for a 1000 yd. 308 shot. I would put the 10x on the 22 for the simple reason the turret adjustments would be much easier and more reliable than the conquest. If you are "gallery" shooting with the 22 high mag. is ok because no adjustments are made. While a semi 308 will do a 1000 yd, its a poor choice for the job, and used because nothing better is available, however 500 yd. head shots aren't that difficult with a scope in the 14x class. While bullet choice is important it has more to do with the trigger release. AR10s aren't like shooting a 15 and take considerably more practice.

+1
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/26/2010 at 03:48
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Well, let me elaborate a little on my situation. The 700 LTR is a 308 and the 22 will be primarily used for target and to teach myself how read out windage to 200 or more meters using the 22. I honestly don't know what I was thinking when I bought the 22 with the SWFA as a scope in mind. Maybe I was thinking that on a smaller scale/ perspective I could read out windage every 10 to 20 meters thereby improving my long range windage adjustment abilities by practicing on closer distance first. As for practical application, I am PCS'ing to Riley where I hear there is a great abundance of small water fowl and many species of bird game. While, I must admit I have never hunted in the "real" sense for land animals, the idea of using a shotgun seems a little like cheating. No offense to the many, MANY dedicated hunters using shot to catch game. On the thought of hunting and actually eating what I catch, I'd like to not have the experience of biting down on pellet while enjoying a great meal. Again, please excuse me, my inexperience with practical application in regards to hunting bird has biased my opinion a little and maybe idealized it somewhat.
 
The 700 LTR was chosen because some very good professional friends of mine had nothing but good things to say about the rifle. And again, part of my decision had to do with the actual possibility of hunting with the rifle. Weight was my second concern with accuracy and potential for accuracy a top priority. However, I chose the 20" as most hunting is done inside 200-300 meters- so I'm told anyway- and I wanted to shoot to at least 600-700 meters for target. So the LTR seemed like the ideal all around platform for my needs. My problem came up when I began to read about shooters saying shorter barrels were better for longer ranges due to accuracy from increased rigidity and others writing about being able to reach out 1Km with the 20"... which then led me to question if the 1" scope tube I chose in the Zeiss was the right choice as I did not want to add a 20MOA or more base to the rig (I'm not even sure how that changes the effective range of engagement as I don't know where the minimum would be). Does anyone agree or disagree? Any advice or insight would be appreciated!
 
I have the rifles registered and the scopes at my home of residence waiting for me to PCS from my current station where I cannot own a private firearm. Honestly, I was not planning to set up a 1K rig, what I wanted was a medium long range setup that was ideal all around.
 
I love to shoot, in close and out far- shooting to me is one of those engineering meets aesthetic for some sort balanced perfection with a skilled shooter behind the trigger.
Thank you and I look forward to your further insights.
 
SGT K
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/26/2010 at 03:49
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Oh yeah, the Zeiss does have target turrets.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/26/2010 at 06:10
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Sounds like you have a plan, but as far as using the .22 for hunting water fowl, you may want check the regs. Because .22 bullets are lead, and a lot of water ways have gone lead free, to protect the environment.
   As far as your plan to practice doping the wind with the .22, good plan, especially if you stretch out to 300 meters.  
   Your friends are correct on the length of "most" hunting shots being 200-300 meters. And the.308 more than capable of making them. And the 20" barrel will make that an extremely handy woods rifle, but also capable of shooting as far as the.308 win is capable of going. I say experiment with both scopes on both rifles, and see which way you like them best. And if hunting is really a want and a goal, spend time in the woods without the firearms! Or bring them, just don't make them the primary reason you are there. Get to know the area you want to hunt. Look for and follow game trails. Find hills that over watch these trails. Buy a good set of binoculars!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/26/2010 at 08:45
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shot is confined to waterfowl areas because of ricocheting, because of the aiming angle when using a rifle around water. Had to laugh at the cheating part, since hitting teal going around 60 mph is about as challenging as shooting can get. The conquest should have enough turns in the elevation to get to 700 yds. Any advantage with an increase in accuracy with a more rigid barrel, is given up in velocity loss, which is directly effected by wind drift. You would need a dedicated bench type gun to notice the difference.
Since the wind drift and elevation with a 22 is around 4x the changes with say, a 308, accurate turrets become essential. Which scope would work the best depends on which one you like the most for that purpose. Target turrets on the zeiss certainly would help.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/27/2010 at 15:43
paulsfin View Drop Down
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I had heard Kansas has an abundance of prairie chicken and other non water fowl plus rabbits. Yeah, after doing more research and watching some skeet shooting video, I realize the comment about cheating is completely wrong. My apologies for the newbie remark.

Thanks again.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/27/2010 at 15:56
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I have an LTR in .308 and it's a great rifle. Getting out to a 1000 is feasible, although I get 2650 vs. 2750 fps MV with my 24" barreled .308. What can hold you back there is the 1:12 twist, which makes it harder to stabilize heavier projectiles. But it will shoot 165-168 grain bullets just fine. (Just beware that Berger is about the only bullet manufacturer that makes a bullet with a proper boat tail taper - about 9 deg. - that will stay true through transonic speeds. Bullets like the 168 gr. SMK won't). You can always try 173-175 gr. bullets though.

I'd try the Zeiss on the LTR, but to be honest, you may consider trying to return it or trade it in on a more suitable scope (IMO), such as the SS 3-9 or a Vortex 4-16 PST. Rifles like these were made for FFP mil/mil scopes.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/27/2010 at 17:24
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I bought the Zeiss for such a good price though. 600 USD advertised as used but came brand new in box.

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