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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/10/2005 at 23:36
tbone1 View Drop Down
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Chris, I wasn't going to ask this, but since you posted the news about Zeiss separating the Victory and Conquest lines, I thought you may know something about this.  I thought that I was fairly familiar with the history of the ZM/Z, VM/V, and Conquest lines, but I was reading on the Zeiss UK website a fews weeks ago and found alot of scopes not being offered in the USA.  Go to www.zeiss.de/C12567A80033F8E4/Contents-Frame/10F349B46B6E312 641256A7300451C05.  They are offering several new models like the VM/V 2.5-10x42 and the VM/V 6-24x72.  What really threw me off though was the fact that they were offering a "Classic line" of riflescopes as well as the Victory(VM/V) and the Conquest.  Their Classic line appeared to be the older ZM/Z line except the dimensions and offerings were not exactly the same.  For example they have a 2.5-10x50 Classic line which was never offered in the ZM/Z.  It used to be a 2.5-10x48, however all of the pictures listed are of the ZM/Z scopes.  My questions are, What is the classic line of scopes?  Is it the same as the ZM/Z line?  Are they going to offer the new Victory Diavari 2.5-10x42 in the USA?  Thanks for your help.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/11/2005 at 11:55
Chris Farris View Drop Down
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The Classic line is the predecessor to the ZMZ.  The ZMZ only refers to the USA made scopes that use the MC coatings.  Before they were just called Diavari and had the T* coatings.

 

They do have plans to expand the Victory line up in the U.S. and will most likely wait until SHOT 2006 to do it.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/13/2005 at 02:23
tbone1 View Drop Down
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Chris, you are not correct about the ZM/Z line only refering to the scopes made in the USA.  Please understand that I am not trying to argue with you but am only trying to understand what Zeiss has done with their scopes.  I am looking at a catalog that I have kept from the mid 90s prior to the VM/V being produced.  The scopes listed in the catalog were the

 

Diatal ZM/Z 6x 42  T*  Made in Germany

Diatal ZM/Z 8x56   T*  Made in Germany

 

Diavari ZM/Z 1.25-4x24  T*  Made in Germany

Diavari ZM/Z 1.5-6x42  T*  Made in Germany

Diavari ZM/Z 2.5-10x 48  T*  Made in Germany

Diavari ZM/Z 3-12x56  T*  Made in Germany

 

Diavari C 3-9x36 MC   Made in USA

 

I believe this catalog was printed around 95 or 96 when the 3-9x36 was moved to the USA.  Prior to that it was made in Germany.  When the VM/V line was created, the entire line of ZM/Z was moved to the USA and changed to MC coating instead of T*.  I am pretty clear on this.    I also have a catalog printed in the late 90s after Zeiss moved the ZM/Z line to the USA and the only noticable difference is that the ZM/Z have MC coatings instead of T* coatings, but the line and dimensions are exactly the same.  What confuses me is that the "Classic"  line listed on Zeiss UK website doesn't fit the dimensions of the ZM/Z line or the VM/V line.  I have checked the length and weight of each scope and they don't match any of the scopes.  Although the pictures listed on the site are of the ZM/Z made in USA.  I will give you an example of what I am talking about and the approximte time that I believe they were produced.

 

                                                                                      Length        Weight       Era 

 

Zeiss Diavari ZM/Z 1.5-6x42  T*    Made in Germany      12.6"        19.8oz.     ; 1990-96

Zeiss Diavari ZM/Z 1.5-6 x42  MC Made in USA         &nb sp;   12.6"     &nbs p; 19.8oz      1996-01

 

Zeiss Diavari VM/V 1.5-6x42  T*   Made in Germany       12.29"  ;    14.2oz. 1997-pres

Zeiss Classic Line  1.5-6x42  T*   Made in Germany        12.8"      16.9oz.    ?

 

In other words, Zeiss had the ZM/Z line made in Germany with T* coatings and moved production of the ZM/Z to the USA when they came out with the VM/V.  However the ZM/Z was the same dimesions as it was when it was made in Germany, just different coatings.  But what is the  "Classic" line.  Also as far as I can tell, they never had a 2.5-10x50 ZM/Z or Classic or anything else.  Back in the Eighties they had a 2.5-10x52 and then a 2.5-10x48 in the 90s.  Then they finally came out with a 2.5-10x50 VM/V in the late 90s.  However what is a 2.5-10x50 "Classic" line.  Either this is a website misprint or they have created a new line of scopes in Europe but didn't tell anyone.  Again, I am not trying to be arguementative but just want to be clear and have my facts straight.  I am a little confused on what Zeiss has done.

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/13/2005 at 02:42
tbone1 View Drop Down
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I don't what happened when I tryed to post the length and weight of each scope but I will try again.

 

                                                                                                    length  weight

 

Diavari ZM/Z 1.5-6x42 T* Made in Germany (late 80s to 1996)   12.6"   19.8oz.

Diavari ZM/Z 1.5-6x42 MC Made in USA     1996-around  2001   12.6    19.8oz.

Diavari VM/V 1.5-6x42 T*  Made in Germany (1997-pres)        & nbsp;    12.29    14.2oz

 

Zeiss "classic"  1.5-6x42 T* Made in Germany ?           ;           ;   12.8      16.9oz.

 

 

 

Diavari ZM/Z 3-12x56 T* Made in Germany (late 80s to 1996)      15.3      25.8oz.

Diavari ZM/Z 3-12x56 MC Made in USA  (1996-01)        &nb sp;         &nb sp;  15.3      25.8oz.

Diavari VM/V 3-12x56 T* Made in Germany (1997-pres)        & nbsp;     13.54    16.8oz.

 

Zeiss "classic"  3-12x56 T* Made in Germany  ?           ;           ;    13.8       20.3oz.

 

What is the classic line?

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/13/2005 at 02:44
tbone1 View Drop Down
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I have tried twice but something must be wrong with my format.  Let me know if you can't understand my question.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/13/2005 at 18:19
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I understand.  I have never seen them referr to the pre VMV as ZMZ while they still made them in Germany.  They were just know as Diavari.  Interesting.  All the more reason to know the Zeiss legend when buying a used one.

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/15/2005 at 20:20
STWSniper View Drop Down
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That is interesting that they are going to have 2 classes of scopes. It sounds like they are just adding the name Victory to their Diavari scope line but not really changing anything per se.
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