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Zeiss hydrophobic coating

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/06/2008 at 21:05
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I saw some Zeiss info about the new coating on a Diavari.  I believe it is the raingaurd coating they got from Bushnell.  Zeiss calls it Lotutec named after the Lotus leaf that is known for it's water shedding ability.  I didn't know Zeiss already had it to market.  They also mentioned they had used this technology for spectacle lens for a long time.  I'd like to see it on the Conquests someday.  Any rumors out there?Shocked
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/06/2008 at 21:40
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Not sure if it's "rainguard" but it could be. The website link below said the new coating was going to available (one model at a time) in the Victory line of riflescopes and binoculars starting Jan 2007. That was almost two years ago. When did they partner up with Bushnell??

http://www.zeiss.de/c1256bcf0020be5f/Contents-Frame/628bafe5a02d67088525725b0039055d

Edited by mike650 - November/06/2008 at 21:49
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/06/2008 at 21:52
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Chris posted this Sept. 3 of 2008.  I thought it was a recent endeavor.  Perhaps they copied it and needed to legally buy some rights from Bushnell before they hit market?  The Lotutec coating description sounds too much like raingaurd for it not to be.
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/06/2008 at 22:11
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I saw that announcement on another site as well as on the OT. Maybe your right but the link I provided to the Zeiss website kind of seems like they were using this in spectacle lenses longer than two years ago. Gosh, the way it's written I don't know how "raingaurd" or any other hydrophobic coating could be much better. Maybe the "raingaurd" coating will be introduced just to the Conquest line therefore improving it while keeping costs down?

    Lotus flower effect
A principle from nature: The lotus flower effect.That is the water repelling characteristic of surfaces, to simply let water drops pearl off and to repel dirt. LotuTec acts as protective coating and cleaning and care is made especially easy.
This technology has been used by Carl Zeiss for millions of spectacle lenses for a long time.

The following products with LotuTec are available
       

    * Binoculars Victory 56 FL (now)
    * Full line of Victory Binoculars (one model at a time, beginning Jan 2007)
    * Riflescopes Victory (one model at a time, beginning Jan 2007)



Edited by mike650 - November/07/2008 at 00:31
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/06/2008 at 22:22
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now if they would put it on conquest scopes which is more affordable for most of the population, i would be on board today!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/06/2008 at 22:27
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Never thought I'd see the day where Zeiss was behind Bushnell on lense technology.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/07/2008 at 00:02
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Zeiss is not behind Bushnell on lens technology, to the best of my knowledge.  I looked over Bushnell's Rainguard patent and it is pretty broad.  It is possible that Zeiss is simply paying a fairly minor royalty in order to avoid lengthy and costly litigation.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/07/2008 at 07:57
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Bushnell puts rainguard on $300 scopes and have been for years.  It must not be a costly process.  It's a shame you can't get it in a $1000 Zeiss.  And according to everything I've read the Elite 4200's are very close optically to Zeiss Conquests.  Now the big question.............Does the hydrophobic coating somehow enhance the otical performance of the scope?  I thought I read a theory on that somewhere on this forum.  If that's the case, a Conquest with Lotutec would be tough to beat.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/07/2008 at 09:01
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Horsemany, you are correct, as Bushnell has been using this stuff for many years. I first saw it on Bausch & Lomb riflescopes (still have a 4200 B&L with it and a B&L Elite spotter) back in the late 90's. We are only seeing the copies now some 8-10 years later. As far as enhancing the quality of the scope, it does. I don't know if that was accidental or not, but Bushnell claims that the coating actually increases light transmission by about .5-1%.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/07/2008 at 10:54
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Originally posted by Roy Finn Roy Finn wrote:

Horsemany, you are correct, as Bushnell has been using this stuff for many years. I first saw it on Bausch & Lomb riflescopes (still have a 4200 B&L with it and a B&L Elite spotter) back in the late 90's. We are only seeing the copies now some 8-10 years later. As far as enhancing the quality of the scope, it does. I don't know if that was accidental or not, but Bushnell claims that the coating actually increases light transmission by about .5-1%.
 
 Is that .5-1% improvement only with water on the lenses vs a wet lense w/o the coating?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/07/2008 at 12:06
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Originally posted by Horsemany Horsemany wrote:

Bushnell puts rainguard on $300 scopes and have been for years.  It must not be a costly process.  It's a shame you can't get it in a $1000 Zeiss.  And according to everything I've read the Elite 4200's are very close optically to Zeiss Conquests.  Now the big question.............Does the hydrophobic coating somehow enhance the otical performance of the scope?  I thought I read a theory on that somewhere on this forum.  If that's the case, a Conquest with Lotutec would be tough to beat.


Great question!!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/07/2008 at 12:33
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There are several optics manufacturers using hydrophobic coatings these days.  The Zeiss Lotu-Tec coating has been used on Zeiss Diavari scopes for the past 2 years, then it went to their Victory FL binoculars, and now their spotting scopes.  It wouldn't surprise me at all if they eventually added it to the Conquest series, but the Conquest scopes don't use the T* coatings of the Diavari series, and in fact, I've heard that Meopta supplies the optics for the Conquests.  Zeiss has stated in their literature that it would eventually be added to other product lines, starting with their flagship model products first.

I don't know what the advantage is for Zeiss to partner with Bushnell on the hydrophobic coatings, unless Zeiss used some of Bushnell's technology in the development of their coating and this is a legal CYA measure.
 
I do know that Zeiss has told me in an email that the Lotu-Tec coating provides no optical performance advantage over their T* coated scopes without L-T, except to the extent it helps keep the lens surface cleaner and clear of water for a more unobstructed view.  I inquired about this when I bought my non-L-T Zeiss off the Sample List and was weighing whether or not it was worth spending extra for L-T.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/07/2008 at 13:07
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It seems unlikely Zeiss would add it to the Conquest if they don't even supply that glass.  I thought the Conquests were assembled in the U.S. using Zeiss components. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/07/2008 at 13:38
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So it sounds like "raingaurd" won't be introduced to any of the Zeiss line. That this was a legal CYA measure for something they've already been doing for years now that may have included borrowing some of Bushnell's technology. Stare

Back to work. Big%20Grin


Edited by mike650 - November/07/2008 at 13:40
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/07/2008 at 14:58
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Originally posted by Horsemany Horsemany wrote:

It seems unlikely Zeiss would add it to the Conquest if they don't even supply that glass.  I thought the Conquests were assembled in the U.S. using Zeiss components. 
 
They could still license the technology to Meopta or whomever is supplying the glass for them.  Regardless of lens origin, the Conquests do use mechanical components made by Zeiss.  I believe it was Koshkin who said that Meopta manufactured the lenses for Conquest scopes.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/07/2008 at 16:27
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As I stated earlier RifleDude, the Rainguard coating had a additional benefit aside from keeping rain/moisture/fog. When they first starting testing for light transmission, it was discovered that the Rainguard coating actually helped light transmission, even though it is a very small increase. The increase, I'm sure would likely never be noticed by the average hunter.

Edited by Roy Finn - November/07/2008 at 16:28
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/07/2008 at 16:53
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Let me introduce in this post. I m optometris,DOO in my country and I work with Zeiss products. In ophtlamic lenses Zeiss has used LOTUTEC multicoating treatment many year ago,around 6 or more.
A lot of optic factories like Essilor (France, one of the best multicoating improvements in world ,for me), Hoya (japan) ,Americal Optical (USA of course), Indo (Spain)...
            Zeiss and all others have been making best improvement in multicoating treatments,making better hydrophobic qualities for plasma coating and introducing LANTANIUM in microcoats over  glasses surfaces.
This technologies isn t a own pattern of Bushnell. Bushnell names rainguard (comercial term)  to another more hydrophobic treatment. So Bushnell isn t the first. I remember Essilor or Hoya was the first,I m not sure.
 
Anyway it s redecolous,Conquest series doesn t put ii on their glasses. And make this isn t so expensive...
FAct ,I just bought  a Zeiss Conquest several hour ago!
 
I didn t know Conquest series doesn t get original Zeiss glasses,I ve read this ones are form Meopta
FORDAMTA
 
About price,how do you think pay for: Zeiss 3,5-10X 44  430$
and for Nikon 2,5-10X 50 350$,new of course, both
Have I made a good buy? Is it a right price for them
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/07/2008 at 17:02
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Flashpoint welcome to the OT. Are you in Manresa, Spain??
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2008 at 03:51
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Yes,it s right ,Manresa is near from Barcelona
 
I v read my last post, excuse my english  : )
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/09/2008 at 11:23
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Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

There are several optics manufacturers using hydrophobic coatings these days.  The Zeiss Lotu-Tec coating has been used on Zeiss Diavari scopes for the past 2 years, then it went to their Victory FL binoculars, and now their spotting scopes.  It wouldn't surprise me at all if they eventually added it to the Conquest series, but the Conquest scopes don't use the T* coatings of the Diavari series, and in fact, I've heard that Meopta supplies the optics for the Conquests.  Zeiss has stated in their literature that it would eventually be added to other product lines, starting with their flagship model products first.

I don't know what the advantage is for Zeiss to partner with Bushnell on the hydrophobic coatings, unless Zeiss used some of Bushnell's technology in the development of their coating and this is a legal CYA measure.
 
I do know that Zeiss has told me in an email that the Lotu-Tec coating provides no optical performance advantage over their T* coated scopes without L-T, except to the extent it helps keep the lens surface cleaner and clear of water for a more unobstructed view.  I inquired about this when I bought my non-L-T Zeiss off the Sample List and was weighing whether or not it was worth spending extra for L-T.
 
It is about keeping price down. The coating from the Bushnell series will be for the Conquest models I bet.
 
If Zeiss were to put their Lotu-Tec coating on the Conquest glass in their German factory the price of the Conquest would increase. Their Lotu-Tec coating will probably remain exclusive on the Diavari models. They probably went into an agreement with Bushnell to use their coating for the Conquest line to keep the cost in the ball park.
 


Edited by Obi Wan Kenobi - November/09/2008 at 11:33
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/09/2008 at 11:38
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Originally posted by Obi Wan Kenobi Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:

Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

There are several optics manufacturers using hydrophobic coatings these days.  The Zeiss Lotu-Tec coating has been used on Zeiss Diavari scopes for the past 2 years, then it went to their Victory FL binoculars, and now their spotting scopes.  It wouldn't surprise me at all if they eventually added it to the Conquest series, but the Conquest scopes don't use the T* coatings of the Diavari series, and in fact, I've heard that Meopta supplies the optics for the Conquests.  Zeiss has stated in their literature that it would eventually be added to other product lines, starting with their flagship model products first.

I don't know what the advantage is for Zeiss to partner with Bushnell on the hydrophobic coatings, unless Zeiss used some of Bushnell's technology in the development of their coating and this is a legal CYA measure.
 
I do know that Zeiss has told me in an email that the Lotu-Tec coating provides no optical performance advantage over their T* coated scopes without L-T, except to the extent it helps keep the lens surface cleaner and clear of water for a more unobstructed view.  I inquired about this when I bought my non-L-T Zeiss off the Sample List and was weighing whether or not it was worth spending extra for L-T.
 
Its part that & part of it is about keeping price down. The coating from the Bushnell 6500 series will be for the Conquest models.
 
If you guys want Zeiss to put their Lou-Tec coating on the Conquest models get ready to spend an extra 500 bucks. Their Lou-Tec coating on the Diavari models is out of this world expensive so they went into an agreement with Bushnell to use their coating for the Conquest line.
 


I agree, looking at my first two posts on this thread that's what I was trying to say and kind of what it looks like is going to happen. Koshkin and Rifledude bring up points though that didn't occur to me. Only time will tell.

Edited by mike650 - November/09/2008 at 11:44
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/10/2008 at 10:52
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I don t worry about which factory make hydrophobic multicoating treatment. If Bushnell can do it for them,it s ok,because all of them are very similar (in a good quality level).Optic quality is up of cut and polish of glass and good assembly. I v read Zeiss produce his own primary matery with a special glass without several tipical components of glass,that they think can increase the quality in refraction light effects. I doubt more If I should know some class Zeiss mount a different original glass or something like this
 
I wish to understand well all posts , I m not sure about some details and maybe I post any information out of context
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/10/2008 at 12:52
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Does a hydrophobic Zeiss get a Rabid-Z reticle?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/10/2008 at 13:08
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Here is a list of available reticles in every model of scope. Anything in the Victory series would have Lotu-Tec the Rapid-Z reticles are hard to come by in that series though.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/11/2008 at 02:51
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I have a doubt. The conquest series is not available with reticle #58 ,I think it s a rangefinder. So this conquest with this reticle would be a old model out of catalogue. Is there any optics difference between the newest,anyone knows this?

 

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