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Zeiss Diavari 6-24 Vs. Schmidt and Bender 5-25

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2009 at 07:13
nickorette View Drop Down
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Has anybody had a chance to handle both? Any opinions? I have narrowed it down to those two, so please no other suggestions, I have looked into each and every one.

I can afford them both, so price is not a cornern. I will be shooting at fixed distances, likely off of a bench.
 
I hear that the Zeiss would be more clear, but I have not been able to confirm. I'd assume that the S&B would be more durable, but than again, it's just an assumption.

I would enter in Hensoldt into the equation, but I did a little research previously, and it was confirmed by the hensoldt engineers that the only difference between the Hensoldt 6-24 and the Zeiss 6-24 is the illumination system and the turrets. I never use illumination, so it comes down to me not willing to spend nearly double the price of the Zeiss Diavari for some nicer turrets, even if I can afford it.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2009 at 07:33
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Wow, you are fortunate. Sorry cannot help you, but my money would be on the S&B based on reviews I've read.
I am sure others on the forum will chip in soon to help you out.
 
I take it you have eliminated the Nightforce range?


Edited by 8shots - September/18/2009 at 07:35
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2009 at 09:03
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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had a 5x25 sb but didn't like it (traded out) it was ffp and the low range until about 10x12 power had such bad tunnelling or inner tube effect it drove me nuts. The lower range s&bs are much,much better. The zeiss you are talking about is sfp, very difficult to compare the two. Currently using one in a Z 1000. If you have seen the 1000 reticle it goes to both sides of the sight picture and is almost a full diameter. Every time I use it I'm amazed at the clarity it provides at the edges. Their are few if any scopes made that match it in its ability to "help" the eye center behind the axis of the reticle, or as forgiving in taking a shot without center,(the z reticle requires quite a bit of cheek up and down, so a solid cheek weld is diffictult). Only complaint and trivial, the turrets have no numbers. I'm assuming here you have not looked at the Premiers or ruled them out for some reason, they are better scopes but the zeiss is a lot of fun.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2009 at 10:32
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Zeiss glass is slightly better.


Don't underestimate the value of good, clearly-marker, user-friendly turrets.  If you need 24X, you will be spinning turrets allot, and S&B has the edge on turrets.

At what distances will you be shooting?

Of the 2, I'd take the Zeiss.  I think Zeiss is the better deal in optical quality - but the S&B has really nice turrets.  Also, what reticle do you want, and do you want/need SFP or FFP?

Need more info!


Were it me, and the only 2 options were those, I'd buy the Zeiss.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2009 at 13:24
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These are two very good scopes.

S&B 5-25x56 went through a recent redesign (about a year ago, I think, or a touch less) and is a superb scope.  It is the most recently redesigned scope in the S&B line and I think it is the best one of the S&B scopes optically.

With Zeiss, there are two 6-24x scopes: 30mm tube 6-24x56 (somewhat older design) and an appreciable more expensive 34mm tube 6-24x72 (fairly recent design).

S&B spits the price difference between the two Zeiss scopes.  In terms of performance, I think that overall S&B also splits the difference between them.

With the 56mm objective lens scopes, I would probably take the S&B over the Zeiss by a slight margin.  However, the 72mm objective lens Zeiss is better than both with low light performance that is unprecedented for commercial scopes.

As far as the difference between Hensoldt (i.e. Zeiss Tactical) and commercial Zeiss goes, from the spec standpoint there isn't much.  If you compare the 6-24x72 models, commercial scopes offer you more reticles, but personally I prefer Hensoldt's version of the MilDot.  There is also a difference in click value.  I think Zeiss has 0.05mrad clicks, while Hensoldt has 0.1mrad clicks.  I prefer the Hensoldt version.

ILya

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2009 at 16:22
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I forgot to mention, it would be 2FP reticles that I would be looking at. The S&B has them available upon special order.
 
It looks like so far the Zeiss would be the better option. I don't look at the numbers when I turn the dial; I count clicks. If the Zeiss is more clear, than I might just go with the Zeiss.

I would consider the 72mm objective, but I would be the never ending laughing stock for having a hubble telescope at on top of my rifle (B&T APR .308 -On schedule for April).
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2009 at 21:32
nickorette View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Dale Clifford Dale Clifford wrote:

had a 5x25 sb but didn't like it (traded out) it was ffp and the low range until about 10x12 power had such bad tunnelling or inner tube effect it drove me nuts. The lower range s&bs are much,much better. The zeiss you are talking about is sfp, very difficult to compare the two. Currently using one in a Z 1000. If you have seen the 1000 reticle it goes to both sides of the sight picture and is almost a full diameter. Every time I use it I'm amazed at the clarity it provides at the edges. Their are few if any scopes made that match it in its ability to "help" the eye center behind the axis of the reticle, or as forgiving in taking a shot without center,(the z reticle requires quite a bit of cheek up and down, so a solid cheek weld is diffictult). Only complaint and trivial, the turrets have no numbers. I'm assuming here you have not looked at the Premiers or ruled them out for some reason, they are better scopes but the zeiss is a lot of fun.

Dale, I just tired to send you a PM, but your box is full Big Grin.
 
Anyhow, I was wondering, is that scope on your TRG a 56mm or a 72mm objective?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2009 at 23:42
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2009 at 23:53
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Dale on the Rapid Z1000 reticle what stays on target at powers lower than max is it the 100 yd zero or is it the 500 yd center of the reticle?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/19/2009 at 08:52
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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both the rapid Z and the NF reticle np-r2 can be calibrated with the horizontals above the main reticle cross. At 24 x on the zeiss the poi are the calibrated ranges on the scopes reticle. Then the Z does a strange thing at 12x the  a 100 yd shot uses the 350 setting , at 200 ys it uses the 400 yd setting, and 300 it uses the 400 yards setting, at 400 it uses a low 500 yd setting-- at 6x a 100 yd target uses a 425 yd setting which of course is very close to center 500 reticle setting at 24x. (this all depends on the load your using also). If this is bothersome, one can ignore the numbers reset 11.5 MOA down (with this load) which recalibrates the reticle to about bar 6, 200 yd, bar 7 at 340, bar 8 480, etc. Or if this a problem don't use any of the bars recalibrate to 100 yds, and just dial in. .5cm per click.
This one is a 56 mm bell, but the over all size of the scope is very compact for this class of scopes, it about the size of a 4.5x14 MK4 (a really big plus for me)
the s$b comes with moa turrets in different dials, and they are nice, but not especially better than any of the other top makers. trying to get 30 moa adjustment  in 1 or 2 turns makes for mighty fine clicks (too fine for me). The best buy I've seen -- there is a s&b with a bryant reticle on the sample list here at swfa, for 2k, I'd snap it up if I didn't already have a 4-16
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/19/2009 at 22:04
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I heard an interesting thing the other day, I don't know if anybody can confrim. I was told that the hesnoldt scopes have an anti-laser protective finish on the lenses, part of the mil-spec requirement to protect sniper's eyes.
 
The down side was that optical clairity was reduced when it direct comparision with the equivalent civilian Zeiss scope.
 
Can anybody confirm?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/20/2009 at 23:23
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That sure makes Rapid Z sound like a goat rope.  Under stress one would be better off with a duplex guessing hold over.  I guess once you get the system down it is OK but I had a feeling it was gong to get funky when you dial down the power.  So the only thing that stays the same at all powers is 500 yds right?  Let me ask you this if you had it to do over would you go with something like a Zplex, mildot, or #4 and just dial in correction?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/20/2009 at 23:57
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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the rapid 1000 is quite a bit different than the 600 or 800, its faster than dial in - in fact after testing it on a gun of known accuracy for repeatability - I moved it over to a ar10t to take advantage of the semi autos ability to load without moving the bolt. It takes far more time to describe than use. Not saying any one system is better, just what this one does. Personally I think the mildot reticle is out of date, a mil system with hash is quite an improvement. Dial in is only needed after 600 yds anyway.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/22/2009 at 08:19
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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seems amazing to me--- we discuss in great depth how to reload for optimization of something or changes in rifle bedding --stocks, triggers  on and on and on.. but when it comes to scopes/reticles we want it as simple as possible (disregarding the fact there isn't even a definition) when we should be looking at all the possibles.
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