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Zeiss Conquest question

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/24/2008 at 12:00
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I am about to buy a new Conquest scope for a 444 Marlin Handi-Rifle. 100 to 150 yard shots max on whitetails. My question for those that have both or looked through both is there alot of difference between 3-9x40 and the 3.5-10x44. I'm probably gonna get it on flea bay using the microsoft live discount so the 3.5-10 will be around 470ish which is what I was going to spend on the 3-9 without any discount. Is there $150 worth of difference in these 2 scopes? The 3-9 will be around $320 so I think thats a really good deal on these scopes.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/24/2008 at 13:29
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Both are big scopes for that rifle. Look at this Conquest.
5214359920 Zeiss 1.8-5.5x38 Conquest Rifle Scope                                                                                   Zeiss 1.8-5.5x38 Conquest Rifle Scope
  • Matte
  • Z-Plex
  • 1"
  • Etched Glass
  • 2nd Plane
SWFA: $399.95


Edited by 3_tens - November/24/2008 at 13:31
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/24/2008 at 13:35
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Originally posted by LA_DXT LA_DXT wrote:

I am about to buy a new Conquest scope for a 444 Marlin Handi-Rifle. 100 to 150 yard shots max on whitetails. My question for those that have both or looked through both is there alot of difference between 3-9x40 and the 3.5-10x44. I'm probably gonna get it on flea bay using the microsoft live discount so the 3.5-10 will be around 470ish which is what I was going to spend on the 3-9 without any discount. Is there $150 worth of difference in these 2 scopes? The 3-9 will be around $320 so I think thats a really good deal on these scopes.
.....................Optically, there shouldn`t be a difference between the two. An extra $150 offers no advantage for you over the 3x9.
 
Not trying to burst your enthusiasm with Zeiss, but more importantly, you should reconsider the magnification choice for your Handi rifle. I know the 3x9 Zeiss at $320 is a good deal and you certainly can use it with success, but imo, a 3x9 overscopes that rifle. A good deal on a scope is always great, but is it the proper scope for the rifle, cartridge, hunting distances and terrain.
 
For hunting shots at 150 yards maximum and in closer cover where shots can be within 50 yards as well, a 3x9 scope reduces FOV, is slower in acquisition and slower in aiming speed.
 
Your Handi-Rifle is exactly that, a handy rifle. It is a quick, fast to target and short to moderate range brush/timber gun. Putting a slower 3x9 scope on there, defeats the purpose of the handi-rifle theme. 
 
My strong advice to you is to get a scope where on the lower power settings, you`re able to maintain both eyes open aiming with no squinting. This increases reaction and acquisition speed, while reducing the time to the target via the faster signal to the brain. In other words, you want a scope that with some practice, is as fast as using iron sites. Other than a 3x9 Trijicon, you cannot do that with any 3x9 or 2.5x10.
 
Also, a handi rifle theme means less overall length and weight. Every extra ounce in the field matters and does effect rifle handling, shouldering speed and so on.
 
Sure! The Zeiss has the great glass, but for your rifle, it`s the wrong scope imo.
 
Suggestions?
 
2.5x FX2 Leupold Ultralite.......Listed weight here is 8 oz. It`s actually 6.5 oz (per Leupold site) with 39.5' FOV @100 yards. Has 4.9" of great eye relief. A very fast scope. 2.5x is more than enough for 150 yard hunting.
 
1-4x20 Leupold VX2........About 9 oz. Very fast, great FOV`s, has very good eye relief.
 
1.5-5x20 Leupold VX3.........9.5 oz with 66' FOV set on the 1.5x. Great eye relief and is also a very fast scope. Got this one on my 375 Ruger. I also occasionally mount this same one on my 300 WSM. It is quickly adaptable to any terrain, close cover etc, or for shots to 400 yards if needed in the open areas.
 
Sightron Big Sky 1.25-5x20........About 10 oz, great FOV`s with the same advantages.
 
Zeiss however does give the better low lite performance.
 
There is always compromising and trade-offs to be made with a scope. In your case, a scope like the Zeiss with better glass, is heavier and slower vs a scope that is lighter, faster with both eyes open, with a better FOV, is lower profiled, that will still offer glass more than good enough for just about any hunting condition.
 
My 300 WSM is a compact rifle. I had a 3x9 4200 on it (great glass) but traded it for an 2.5-8x28 EER UCC Nikon Monarch. Big difference in handling speed. Also, when I switch over and put my VX3 on it? Well! You kinda get the idea!.........................
 
 
  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/24/2008 at 21:58
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You might want to take a look through those two Conquests models. The Z-plex reticle is not the same in both models. The 3.5-10x44 model has the same plex except the inner center plex is wider between the heavier outer lines than the 3-9x40 model. Also, the 3.5-10 x44 has 3.5 inches of eye relief instead of 4 inches. Most like 4 inches of eye relief but I have come to find I like it around 3.5 inches myself.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/24/2008 at 22:06
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Originally posted by Big Squeeze Big Squeeze wrote:

Originally posted by LA_DXT LA_DXT wrote:

I am about to buy a new Conquest scope for a 444 Marlin Handi-Rifle. 100 to 150 yard shots max on whitetails. My question for those that have both or looked through both is there alot of difference between 3-9x40 and the 3.5-10x44. I'm probably gonna get it on flea bay using the microsoft live discount so the 3.5-10 will be around 470ish which is what I was going to spend on the 3-9 without any discount. Is there $150 worth of difference in these 2 scopes? The 3-9 will be around $320 so I think thats a really good deal on these scopes.
.....................Optically, there shouldn`t be a difference between the two. An extra $150 offers no advantage for you over the 3x9.
 
Not trying to burst your enthusiasm with Zeiss, but more importantly, you should reconsider the magnification choice for your Handi rifle. I know the 3x9 Zeiss at $320 is a good deal and you certainly can use it with success, but imo, a 3x9 overscopes that rifle. A good deal on a scope is always great, but is it the proper scope for the rifle, cartridge, hunting distances and terrain.
 
For hunting shots at 150 yards maximum and in closer cover where shots can be within 50 yards as well, a 3x9 scope reduces FOV, is slower in acquisition and slower in aiming speed.
 
Your Handi-Rifle is exactly that, a handy rifle. It is a quick, fast to target and short to moderate range brush/timber gun. Putting a slower 3x9 scope on there, defeats the purpose of the handi-rifle theme. 
 
My strong advice to you is to get a scope where on the lower power settings, you`re able to maintain both eyes open aiming with no squinting. This increases reaction and acquisition speed, while reducing the time to the target via the faster signal to the brain. In other words, you want a scope that with some practice, is as fast as using iron sites. Other than a 3x9 Trijicon, you cannot do that with any 3x9 or 2.5x10.
 
Also, a handi rifle theme means less overall length and weight. Every extra ounce in the field matters and does effect rifle handling, shouldering speed and so on.
 
Sure! The Zeiss has the great glass, but for your rifle, it`s the wrong scope imo.
 
Suggestions?
 
2.5x FX2 Leupold Ultralite.......Listed weight here is 8 oz. It`s actually 6.5 oz (per Leupold site) with 39.5' FOV @100 yards. Has 4.9" of great eye relief. A very fast scope. 2.5x is more than enough for 150 yard hunting.
 
1-4x20 Leupold VX2........About 9 oz. Very fast, great FOV`s, has very good eye relief.
 
1.5-5x20 Leupold VX3.........9.5 oz with 66' FOV set on the 1.5x. Great eye relief and is also a very fast scope. Got this one on my 375 Ruger. I also occasionally mount this same one on my 300 WSM. It is quickly adaptable to any terrain, close cover etc, or for shots to 400 yards if needed in the open areas.
 
Sightron Big Sky 1.25-5x20........About 10 oz, great FOV`s with the same advantages.
 
Zeiss however does give the better low lite performance.
 
There is always compromising and trade-offs to be made with a scope. In your case, a scope like the Zeiss with better glass, is heavier and slower vs a scope that is lighter, faster with both eyes open, with a better FOV, is lower profiled, that will still offer glass more than good enough for just about any hunting condition.
 
My 300 WSM is a compact rifle. I had a 3x9 4200 on it (great glass) but traded it for an 2.5-8x28 EER UCC Nikon Monarch. Big difference in handling speed. Also, when I switch over and put my VX3 on it? Well! You kinda get the idea!.........................
 
 
  
whats with you and your leupold kick mr 4200 elite?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/24/2008 at 23:48
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Pyro!.............It`s not a matter of being on a Leupold kick! If Bushnell made a wider variety of 1" tubed, light and lower powered variable scopes, with great eye relief in their 4200 line,,,,I`D OWN ONE, MAYBE MORE!.. But until they do, Leupold offers the better variety in both the VX2 and VX3 line, which are better suited to handi-rifles, compact rifles and the DGR`s!.......I did suggest a Sightron too. Did I not?.......... Whoops! 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/25/2008 at 06:02
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trijicon acog

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/25/2008 at 08:21
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Originally posted by 3_tens 3_tens wrote:

Both are big scopes for that rifle. Look at this Conquest.
5214359920 Zeiss 1.8-5.5x38 Conquest Rifle Scope                                                                                   Zeiss 1.8-5.5x38 Conquest Rifle Scope
  • Matte
  • Z-Plex
  • 1"
  • Etched Glass
  • 2nd Plane
SWFA: $399.95


I think 3tens nailed it!!

+1 Thunbs Up
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/25/2008 at 09:20
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Gotta love opinions!
 
I'm siding with Big Squeeze.  That's a fairly compact rifle shooting a max 200 yd cartridge.  The Zeiss is a great scope but is almost 14" long, weighs 18 oz and has a field of view from 18.8 ft to 56 Ft.
 
The Leupold VX111, 1.5-5x20, is just over 9" long, weighs 9.5 oz and provides a FOV of 22 to 66 feet.
 
The VXII, 1-4x20 is the same length, weighs 9 oz and FOV is 25 to 75 ft. 
 
Either would provide plenty of mag for that cartridge.


Edited by Dogger - November/25/2008 at 09:23
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/25/2008 at 10:37
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Alright, time for the Bricat to weigh in. You are looking for a scope to put on your Handi-rifle, 100 - 150 yard shots,  you like the Conquest,  Dogger has pointed out that the 1.8-5.5 Conquest is long and heavy, - this is true. Might I suggest to you the Conquest fixed 4X32. This is a scope that I just started using this year and it is FANTASTIC! At 150 yards the 4 power is enough magnification to meet your needs. I also use the  3-9X40 Conquest on another rifle and i can honestly say that the 32mm obj. lense does not handicap me in any way, shape, or form. I was hunting with this rig the other night and light transmission was SUPERB. Field of view and eye relief are also great on this scope and it is only 12" long and weighs only 13 ounces. this scope comes HIGHLY RECOMMENDED by the Bricat!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/25/2008 at 10:55
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Get Your Popcorn Ready
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/25/2008 at 11:04
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Zeiss are great scopes but I think part of the issue was the mag range for his chosen calibre.  For close in brush work where the 444 is intended 4X might be a bit high if you jump start a deer or bear at 30 yds.  
 
At the other end 4x or 5X is fine for 150 yds.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/25/2008 at 12:07
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Thanks for the replies guys!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/25/2008 at 12:27
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Originally posted by Dogger Dogger wrote:

Gotta love opinions!
 
I'm siding with Big Squeeze.  That's a fairly compact rifle shooting a max 200 yd cartridge.  The Zeiss is a great scope but is almost 14" long, weighs 18 oz and has a field of view from 18.8 ft to 56 Ft.
 
The Leupold VX111, 1.5-5x20, is just over 9" long, weighs 9.5 oz and provides a FOV of 22 to 66 feet.
 
The VXII, 1-4x20 is the same length, weighs 9 oz and FOV is 25 to 75 ft. 
 
Either would provide plenty of mag for that cartridge.
.......................Thank you,,,`O Canaaaada!!!........Laugh..........At least I`m not the only one around here with the same thinking.
 
For a handi rifle, a better alternative from the 3x9, is the fixed 4x Zeiss as Bricat mentions. However, regardless of their great glass, my gripe with Zeiss here with the 4x as with their lower powered variable, is a weight 13.75 oz and more. My former 3x9 Elite 4200 weighed less than that as do a few other 3x9`s.
 
If someone doesn`t mind a narrower FOV of 26.1' @ 100 yards, more weight and squinting one eye while acquiring and aiming, the Zeiss for its optics alone, is an excellent choice.
 
For a shorter range stalk and hunt with a handi rifle, I much prefer faster acquisition and aiming speed (moving targets or otherwise), a much wider FOV along with less scope weight. 
 
Two years ago, I lost a huge trophy class mulie in the thickets because of a split second delay. Had my 3x9 set at 3x on my Vanguard. While stalking, my guide saw the target at 45 yards and by the time I shouldered that full sized rifle and just before I was able to FULLY acquire using the one eye closed method of course,, he was gone..........That,, will never happen again.
 
If I would have had back then what I have now; my 1.5-5x20 VX3 or my Nikon Monarch EER scout mounted on my compact 300 Ruger Frontier, a much quicker set-up either way, that mulie with absolutely no doubt, would have been mine.
 
For any who inquire, that is why I always emphasize, for shorter to the medium range and even for longer range work, a both eyes open faster aiming scope along with, if the subject turns to rifles, the more compact, but very hi-peformin "Squeezer Special" rifles.
 
I will not lose again!
 
 
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/25/2008 at 13:17
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Yeah Squeezer, I see your point on those "heavy" Zeiss scopes. That extra 4 ounces that they have on the Leupolds can be a real back breaker. Wink
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/25/2008 at 13:22
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Originally posted by bricat bricat wrote:

Yeah Squeezer, I see your point on those "heavy" Zeiss scopes. That extra 4 ounces that they have on the Leupolds can be a real back breaker. Wink
......................A back breaker uh?.....Wise guy!................Roll on Floor Laughing
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My gripe with Zeiss is not weight, but bulk.  Even on a 3 lug Sako with short bolt lift, the HUGE ocular is a challenge with gloves on.  Yeah the optics are great by I don't like the added mass compared to a VX III.
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While I am on a "buy American" kick, you CAN'T beat.. a 4X36 Schmidt and Bender.    One of my worst mistakes in life... selling the one I had.  
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Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

While I am on a "buy American" kick, you CAN'T beat.. a 4X36 Schmidt and Bender.    One of my worst mistakes in life... selling the one I had.  
.....................$1K for a 4x scope??? No thanks! Don`t care how good it is!...For that kind of moo-la, I could buy another new rifle that I don`t need and put a new scope on it too!
 
If I need a 4x scope that costs a grand vs what I have now in order to fill a tag, that`s not saying too much for me as a hunter imo!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/25/2008 at 20:31
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ive got a better idea guys use open sights like the damn gun was intended to have, to hell with the scope

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It would save alot of money Sharp Shooter
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Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

ive got a better idea guys use open sights like the damn gun was intended to have, to hell with the scope

 
Shocked    Say what?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/25/2008 at 22:43
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lever guns dont get scopes, im old school that way sorry
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squeeze
 
stop move your body I m getting nervious with your abatar
 
f@ck off
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/27/2008 at 03:32
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This one better????...Don`t want you to have those frustrating kinda dreams!!.....Laugh.....
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