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Zeiss Conquest or Swarovski Z5

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/11/2010 at 22:31
wjm308 View Drop Down
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My very first post to optics talk :)
 
So Swarovski just updated their lineup to include a Z5 series with 5x magnification and 1" tubes while Zeiss is still stuck on their 3x magnification in the Conquest lineup, does anyone know if Zeiss has hinted at updating it's Conquest line to include at least 4x magnification?
 
I'm looking for a good scope with a BC reticle (like the Zeiss Rapid Z or Swarovski BRX) and while the Swaro Z5 3.5-18x44 with BRX reticle is really nice, it is at the upper limit of what I'd like to pay for a scope.  The Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14x44 Z800 scope is priced at almost half the Swaro.  If I end up going with the Zeiss I am concerned that I will have wished I had the extra 1x in low magnification and extra 4x in high magnification.
 
Has anyone here by chance used both scopes and can provide some helpful insight?  Thank you.

Bill
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2010 at 07:17
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I feel your quandary wjm308. I recently went through the exact same thing for magnification and price on the same two scopes. I ended up getting the Swaro because of the extended magnification on both top (mainly) and bottom and the ability to mount it really low. Yes, the glass is slightly better, too, but on it's own would not have been enough to sway me. I actually liked the Z800 reticle slightly more than the BRX. They're both excellent scopes, and you'll probably be happy with either one. Good luck on choosing, but you can't really go wrong either way.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2010 at 10:20
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I find the Swaro's to be most excellent. I have an older AV with the TDS reticle (which is nice). 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2010 at 10:42
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I have both the Z5 in BRX 3.5-18 and a Conquest in 3-9 Rapid Z 600. 
 
Overall I prefer the Z5 for clarity. I find the BRX reticle a bit thin for my liking.  I have an a-line in the BR reticle and prefer the thicker cross hairs.  Overall the 5 is superb and clarity to the edges is without equal.
 
The conquest is also very nice.  The rapid z 600 is a good reticle.  Clarity is not as fine but for about half the price you cannot go wrong.
 
I would put either of these on a gun and be confident and happy.  It comes down to personal preference on reticle layout and clarity...and most importantly price.
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2010 at 15:54
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Thank you all for your input.  Like you Quoddy, I prefer the look of the Rapid Z reticle over the Swarovski BRX; however, it's not a deal breaker.  That's why I was hoping Zeiss had a 5x line of scopes coming for the Conquest.  From the input so far, it would appear that the Z5 has the edge in terms of clarity of the optics, but I would assume that both are very close.  I had a chance yesterday to look through a Schmidt and Bender 4-16x50, a Swarovski PH 4-16x50 and a Zeiss 4.5-14x44.  The Schmidt and Bender I found to be the quickest to bring to my eye and focus, but that was also hand holding the scopes, the Swarovski and the S&B were very close in terms of clarity and the Zeiss seemed a little less but that could be due to the fact that it has a 1" tube and 44mm objective.  All in all, for half the price the Zeiss was very good indeed.  Now if only I can find a good deal on a Z5 with BRX, that would probably seal it.  I see samplelist.com has the Z5 3.5-18 with BT for $1200, if only that was the BRX version :)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2010 at 16:03
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pcrage, since you have both the Zeiss and the Swarovski can you tell me how much different the Z5 BRX reticle is?  Unfortunately I can't find a local dealer who has any Z5's in stock so I don't know how it looks, but it sounds like it is pretty thin from what you say.  Do you feel that it is difficult to see (the reticle) with a busy background such as an Elk standing in front of a bunch of pine trees at dawn/dusk? 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2010 at 16:41
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WJ...
 
Great question.  I have only used at my range and was shooting it side by side with my A-line in the BR reticle.  It was thinner but I do not believe so thin as to create a problem in a real life situation.  I suppose I will prove this out but not until October on my next hunt.
 
Let me do this, I am remounting this scope on a new cooper I purchased last weekend and will take outside and do a comparison to the conquest and get back to you over the weekend  OK?
 
Peter
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2010 at 16:44
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Originally posted by wjm308 wjm308 wrote:

  I see samplelist.com has the Z5 3.5-18 with BT for $1200, if only that was the BRX version :)


You can get the z5 and if you really don't like it, send the scope to SONA and have a reticle change.

I've found the Zeiss Conquest has the better reticle choices but the z5 is the better product. Gotta love that power range (3.5-18).
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2010 at 11:40
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Thanks Peter, that would be greatly appreciated.  All you guys with your Cooper rifles, man those are nice!
 
Mike, by SONA do you mean Swarovski Optics North America?  If that be the case, how much is a reticle swap, it might put me right back to the price of a new one...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2010 at 12:04
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Originally posted by wjm308 wjm308 wrote:

Thanks Peter, that would be greatly appreciated.  All you guys with your Cooper rifles, man those are nice!
 
Mike, by SONA do you mean Swarovski Optics North America?  If that be the case, how much is a reticle swap, it might put me right back to the price of a new one...


Yes, Swarovski Optics North America

I did a plex to 4a change and the cost was around $150. The turn around time was under two weeks.

I just noticed that the model your looking at is listed BT. I take it you mean ballistic turret (with plex reticle)? The change out would definitely be more.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2010 at 20:54
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Mike, I was mistaken, it is simply a plex reticle with no ballistic turrets...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2010 at 13:32
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WJM
 
I did mount the new Z5 on the rifle and compared to the conquest.  The cross hairs on the BRX Z5 are finer than the conquest no doubt.  I aimed at a number of different things and did not loose sight of the cross hairs on the target...the glass is so clear and brilliant that even though the haris are very fine I was able to discern them. 
 
Ideally I would like a bit thicker hairs but I suspect these will do just fine.
 
P
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2010 at 16:51
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Originally posted by wjm308 wjm308 wrote:

My very first post to optics talk :)
 
So Swarovski just updated their lineup to include a Z5 series with 5x magnification and 1" tubes while Zeiss is still stuck on their 3x magnification in the Conquest lineup, does anyone know if Zeiss has hinted at updating it's Conquest line to include at least 4x magnification?
 
I'm looking for a good scope with a BC reticle (like the Zeiss Rapid Z or Swarovski BRX) and while the Swaro Z5 3.5-18x44 with BRX reticle is really nice, it is at the upper limit of what I'd like to pay for a scope.  The Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14x44 Z800 scope is priced at almost half the Swaro.  If I end up going with the Zeiss I am concerned that I will have wished I had the extra 1x in low magnification and extra 4x in high magnification.
 
Has anyone here by chance used both scopes and can provide some helpful insight?  Thank you.

Bill
Don't forget that if you are going to be using a second focal plane ballistic reticle, that the ballistic markings will only be "true" on one magnification. If all the marks hit where they're supposed to with the scope on 10x, and you turn the scope to 14x and aim with the same mark, you will hit low. This takes away some of the usefullness of a huge zoom range.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2010 at 17:40
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Thanks trigger29, that is something I have been aware of and I wish I could find a ballistic reticle in the FFP, but so far I have been unable to find that in the magnification range I'm looking for and from a manufacturer I prefer.  If anyone knows of any scopes with BC reticles in the FFP I would be very interested, thank you.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2010 at 22:44
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I was just thinking about the FFP vs. SFP issue with a BC reticle, I like Zeiss' online calculator because it has the "Optimize Power" button which tells you what power setting to put the scope to in order to get as close to the yardage marks on the reticle to give a more accurate range.  Of course, you always have to field verify because calculated data doesn't always match every condition for the powder, bullet, barrel and conditions that you shoot in.  This is something that a FFP reticle could not do, it would have to be calibrated to one specific standard, and if your particular ammo does not fit within that standard then your're stuck with "off" numbers for the ballastic hash marks further down the reticle.  I just wish Swarovski had an "Optimize Power" button with their ballistics program because I am leaning toward the Z5 3.5-18x44 scope with BRX reticle at this point.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/16/2010 at 11:35
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Just for the record, I bought the same exact Zeiss scope you are talking about with the Z800 reticle thinking for 1/2 the price of the Swaro, I couldn't go wrong.

At 300yds the Zeiss reticle covered up a lot of the target IMO. It's the Swaro next time for me. Z5 or Z6 with the BRX as it appears to be finer.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/16/2010 at 11:39
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Thanks for the input okc4956, can you tell me what kind of target it covered up?  Are you talking a paper target with a small center? 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2010 at 12:15
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Just spoke with Swarovski NA and they said they can do a reticle change on the Z5 3.5-18x44 BT to a BRX reticle for $170.  It seems that some of you have not liked Swaro's ballistic turrets, is it the turret itself you don't like or the reticle used with the BT scope?  I'm wondering if a BT scope with the BRX reticle would be a fine combination?  Thanks
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2010 at 14:25
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that sounds like a lot of coin to me.....
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/18/2010 at 12:37
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For hunting out to 400 yds the BRX is really all you need with most calibers...  I personally do not take many hunting shots over that distance so I have only one S&B Precision Hunter turret setup on my .300 weatherby in the event I am on a long range hunt...  all others are ballistic reticles or plain jane crosshairs.

 
P
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2010 at 13:20
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Sorry, just happened to check this. The Z800 covered up the entire target center at 300yds. It was an 8" Shoot'n'C target. I was using it so I could see hits easily.

It may be fine for hunting elk and deer, but not prairie dogs I'm thinking.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2010 at 13:35
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Originally posted by wjm308 wjm308 wrote:

Just spoke with Swarovski NA and they said they can do a reticle change on the Z5 3.5-18x44 BT to a BRX reticle for $170.  It seems that some of you have not liked Swaro's ballistic turrets, is it the turret itself you don't like or the reticle used with the BT scope?  I'm wondering if a BT scope with the BRX reticle would be a fine combination?  Thanks


The reticle that comes with the BT (ballistic turret) is a plex that's very similar to Leupold "thin duplex". A lot of guys don't like it for hunting though I don't mind it. IMHO what would be a better combo (than BT and BRX combo) is a 4a and BT combo though not sure how that would work in the calculations from Swaro or if they would do it. The 4a retilce is a great choice for low light and the BT would compliment it on longer shots.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/22/2010 at 13:05
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Much of my originally mentioned problem with the BT has been been lessened now that the interior portions of the turret no longer have the "stuck together" newness. Initially, it was a real pain to get the turret apart to zero it. The Plex reticle is just slightly on the fine side for my liking, but I'm still able to see it OK under almost all conditions. I'm doing a lot of range shooting with it right now, and with good success.

Last time out this was a 10 shot target at 100 yards.




  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/22/2010 at 13:10
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that's good shooting..... yes sir!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/23/2010 at 09:25
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Have you looked at the new Leica riflescope... has a ballistic retice and comes with a billistics program.  Long eye relief and ease of mounting are what they talk about.  Might be worth a look... NV Hunter
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