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Zeiss Conquest boresight?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/06/2009 at 18:55
deuceswild View Drop Down
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Just got a Zeiss 3-9X40, and mounted it on a Rem. .300 Rum.  I (or the gunsmith) used Med. Leupold Rings.  When I went to pick it up, he said he boresighted it for me.  He said that he was a little concerned; I only had about 6 inches of elevation left to use.  I've never had a Zeiss before, and don't know if this is common.  Frankly, it's my first scope purchase- everything else had been Leupolds on guns handed down and were already sighted in.

My question is if this is common.  I have yet to site in the scope, so I don't want to jump to conclusions; but I also don't want to be saddled with a problem up front.

Thanks

Jim
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/06/2009 at 19:03
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It is more likely a function of your receiver and/or mounts.  Not likely a scope issue.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/06/2009 at 19:08
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3 things. 
 
Shoot it first and confirm what the gunsmiths' boretsighter told him.  I've seen boresighted guns that were feet off at 100yds.
 
If he's right then I'd get some Burris Signature rings with the off set inserts to counteract the problem.
 
Conquest's don't have a huge adjustment range as it is.


Edited by Horsemany - April/06/2009 at 19:08
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/06/2009 at 19:09
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  Take it back to him and tell him to put a low ring in the front and a medium one on the rear!
That will fix it!
 
 Just kidding.
 
Kickboxer's probably right.  You have other ring options that will work if you need more elevation, or you may wish to go with a tapered one-piece base...
 Edited to add:
 Horsemany's probably right, too!


Edited by RONK - April/06/2009 at 19:10
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/06/2009 at 19:21
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A quick fix is taking a empty shotgun shell and cutting a small piece of the plastic that fits the rear mount.It works if your shooting low and ran out of adjustments.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/06/2009 at 20:34
deuceswild View Drop Down
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Thanks for the answers..  The main thing I was looking for, but didn't know how to phrase it, was the comment about the adjustment range.  Just wanted to make sure it wasn't a problem with the scope.  If I sight it in and it doesn't need more elevation than I have, I'll probably leave it alone.  Shouldn't need to adjust it more; I forgot to add that it is a rapid Z 600 reticle, if that makes any difference.  I was thinking that once this thing is set, it's set.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/06/2009 at 21:36
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 I'd be uneasy leaving such a nice scope zeroed that far to one edge of its adjustment range.

 Two reasons:
1. The optical qualities of the scope are at their best when everything is more or less centered. Adjusting way off center compromises that to some degree. I wouldn't be surprised if it compromises a scopes' durability as well.
 2. The spring that holds the erector assembly against the turret is compressed a good deal, and may weaken over time.
 
I'd work on getting the scope adjustments optically centered in the tube, and then work on getting the whole works to line up better to the line of bore, via the mounting system.
You'll sleep better knowing it was set up right, especially on a relatively hard kicker like your .300 RUM.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/06/2009 at 22:15
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Don't try to shim it until you find out what is wrong, if the mount centers are off, as suggested -- thats another problem.  I'll bet if you take out the bolt and look down the bore holding the gun steady by some support on a small bright object at 25 yds, and lift your head up to look at the reticle it will be off by 4-6 inches.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/07/2009 at 07:38
deuceswild View Drop Down
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Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

  
I'd work on getting the scope adjustments optically centered in the tube, and then work on getting the whole works to line up better to the line of bore, via the mounting system.
You'll sleep better knowing it was set up right, especially on a relatively hard kicker like your .300 RUM.

How would I go about doing that?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/07/2009 at 07:40
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Originally posted by Dale Clifford Dale Clifford wrote:

Don't try to shim it until you find out what is wrong


Actually, the gunsmith mentioned shimming it.  I'm not real sure what shimming is though, or if it would void the warranty.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/07/2009 at 07:42
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Originally posted by Horsemany Horsemany wrote:

3 things. 
 
Shoot it first and confirm what the gunsmiths' boretsighter told him.  I've seen boresighted guns that were feet off at 100yds.
 
If he's right then I'd get some Burris Signature rings with the off set inserts to counteract the problem.
 
Conquest's don't have a huge adjustment range as it is.
 
I always use Burris Sign. Rings, The off set inserts work great...Good Advice
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/07/2009 at 08:13
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I'd agree with my first post and glockman55 the Burris Signature rings with offset inserts are designed to adjust the scope body leaving your reticle closer to center.  I'd suggest doing some searches for them and once you see a picture of one I think it will be obvious how they work.  They are also one of the only designs that will never leave ring marks.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/07/2009 at 08:14
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I really like the Zeiss, but I'm starting to wonder if another scope might "fit" the gun better.  I had to use the mounts I used to clear the bolt throw, now I may have to get different mounts to allow for adjustments.

I know it probably sounds like I don't have much patience, and that's kind of true.  I've been "buying" the gun and scope for about a year now.  I've put a lot of research time into caliber, finish, and optics.  I'm wondering if I shouldn't just trade the Zeiss for a Monarch or Leupold and be done with it.  Then again, I may have the same problems with them too.

I really hope the boresighter is just off.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/07/2009 at 08:35
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Burris Signature Rings
Burris Signature 1" Pos-Align Offset Ring Inserts

Are these what you guys are talking about?  If they are, do I need to get any particular base with them?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/07/2009 at 10:52
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Deuces,
 You keep "talking" like there is a scope problem.   According to Zeiss you shoud have 64 inches (at 100yd) or minutes of angle az and el adjustment with that scope.  That gives 256 clicks total, or with a mechanical zero 128 in either direction.  That should be your start point to boresight.  If you have to vary such that you only have 6 inches or MOA of adjustment left after boresight and/or zero, you have a  mounting problem, not a scope problem.  Since I don't have your rifle in hand, I can't tell you exactly how to fix it, but shimming should be a last resort and short term.  The "fix" should be through your mounting system, bases and rings.  For you to lose 26 MOA of adjustment in the boresighting/zeroing process sounds like something is not on the rifle properly.  Find out what is wrong before you go changing things. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/07/2009 at 10:59
deuceswild View Drop Down
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Kickboxer,

Actually I am relieved it is not a scope problem.  I agree it is probably a mounting problem as well, and from what I gather the best "guaranteed" fix would be the Burris rings and offsets- I don't know which bases would be in order either.

I am really hoping when I get to shoot it I find the boresighter to be way out of alignment, but we'll see. 

Thanks for your help. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/07/2009 at 16:56
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... and lesson learned.  Went to a different gunsmith.  He suggested the Burris Signature Dual Dovetail and base.  Said he would put the off-sets on it if needed.  He also said it may even be a problem with the receiver more than the rings.  He said that sometimes happens with the Rem 700 receivers.

Last question Big Grin: With regard to the lack of ring marks that Burris reports, is that only if I have the offsets, or do the regular rings not leave ring marks either?

Thanks
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/07/2009 at 18:32
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You can use the reg. inserts if the off-set bushings are not needed.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/07/2009 at 18:45
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 Well, Burris also makes standard rings that don't utilize the Pos-A-Lign insert system at all, so the answer is "maybe."
 Make sure you get the Burris Signature rings that have the plastic inserts and get the offset insert kit for them (a couple bucks extra cost), if you need to adjust the alignment. (And I'm sure you do.)
 Your second gunsmith sounds like he has it figured out. Good luck!
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/07/2009 at 18:54
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Assuming I have to change the rings (and I figure I do), I will be getting the Signature.  The gunsmith said the Leupold Standard mounts would work, but with the money invested in the rifle and scope, I can't see shirking the rings.  Might as well throw out the extra $19 for the Dual Dovetail bases.   He also said he would add the offsets if necessary.

If anybody sees any problem with this setup, PLEASE let me know. 

As an aside, I really appreciate the forum and the volunteers here.  I've learned more reading than posting.  If only you got your post count upped by reading.........
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/07/2009 at 18:58
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Originally posted by deuceswild deuceswild wrote:

Assuming I have to change the rings (and I figure I do), I will be getting the Signature.  The gunsmith said the Leupold Standard  bases would work, but with the money invested in the rifle and scope, I can't see shirking the bases.  Might as well throw out the extra $19 for the Dual Dovetail bases.   He also said he would add the offsets if necessary.

If anybody sees any problem with this setup, PLEASE let me know. 

As an aside, I really appreciate the forum and the volunteers here.  I've learned more reading than posting.  If only you got your post count upped by reading.........


I had to edit the above post, but didn't know howEmbarrased
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/07/2009 at 19:21
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Glad you found someone who could fix it for you.  Always find the cause of a problem before you try to fix it.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/07/2009 at 20:41
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Okay, just got home from travel.  (Most posts today were from the airport).  I got out the rifle and checked the elevation.  I had 41 clicks to the right on the elevation (top) turret before it stopped.  I counted 41 left to put me back to the boresight, then had 38 clicks to the left before it stopped. 

The side (I guess windage) had about 98 clicks clockwise, then I rotated back 98.  I started going counter clockwise, and stopped at 32.  I stopped, but didn't hit the end.  I figured with the elevation, that was fine.

Not having much experience with this stuff (and what experience I do have is limited to Leupolds) does it sound as though I have a problem?

And if I don't, should I still go with the Burris Signature rings and mounts?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/07/2009 at 21:04
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79 clicks sounds bad.  That is only a total of 20 MOA>>> something is wrong,  less than 1/3 the adjustment you should have.  The windage we can't tell because you stopped.  Need to check the full range.  Something is definitely not right.  You cannot and should not "settle" for 20MOA in elevation adjustment for that model of scope.  I would get it replaced, but see no reason to opt for another brand. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/07/2009 at 21:24
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Okay, don't know what happened.  The clockwise numbers I counted on both turrets was correct, but counterclockwise on elevation I got 240 and counterclockwise on windage was 188.

Do these numbers sound more in line with a correctly operating scope, and put me back to where I was just needing the ring/mount change?Head Banger

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