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Zeiss Conquest 3-12x56

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/2007 at 12:13
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For those who have experience with this scope, how does it compare in extreme low light to the Zeiss Victory, Swarovski, or Kales.  I looked at one yesterday.  The contrast was outstanding!  I called Zeiss about it.  They said that the Victory had thinner lenses and transmitted more light........about 99%.....how can that be?   I have a 4200 and I know how well it does at near dark, but then I also remember when I thought that a Vari-X-II was the bees knees at dark.  Those were indeed the "dark" ages!!!!  Just how much better is the Conquest 3-12x56 or any of the others compared to the 50mm 4200 at dark?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/28/2007 at 10:17
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Sooo, no one has any experience with this scope?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/28/2007 at 10:27
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   Big difference betwen the Diavari,Swarovski PV's and high end Kahles.  The Conquest does not compare at low light and resolution.  The Z-plex is better then regular plex, but you might want a #4 which I belive you can order on the Conquest which will help for low light.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/28/2007 at 20:58
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With the #8 reticle in the FFP, it gets pretty large at 7 power and above.  The reason that I ask the question is that when I compared my 4200 to a Swarovski 4x16x50mm at dark I really didn't see much of a difference.  Certainly not $1200 worth of difference.  There is however a huge difference between my Leupold Vari-X-III's and the 4200, but I really didn't see much of a difference with the Swarovski.  At some point you are paying a lot more for a small difference in performance.  I guess, like most, I am looking for that price/performance "efficiency curve".
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/29/2007 at 08:49
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4200's are very bright for the money - but the conquest may give you a slight advantage.

 

the kahles KX will be brighter than the conquest in my opinion.

 

the #4 reticle is wonderful for lowlight.

 

good luck and let us know what you think.

 

the zeiss is a fine scope. without a doubt.

 

J

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/17/2007 at 21:12
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No doubt that the Conquest line is not in the same league with the Zeiss Victory, Swarovski PH, etc. lines BUT could there be that big of a difference between the 3x12x56mm models?  In other words, it is obvious that a 3x12x56 Victory must be brighter than a 3x9x40 Conquest, 4200 etc, but when comparing similar "size" models, will you see that much of a difference at 45 min. after sunset?  One would think that at some point you begin to pay a whole lot more for an almost insignificant increase in performance.  Like most folks, I guess I am looking for that point of diminishing return.  I really don't want to spend nearly 1K on a 3x12x56 Conquest if I will not get any more performance than my 3.5x10x50 Elite 4200.

I have seen the difference between the 4200 and a similar size Vari-X-III at dark, but i am wondering if the jump to a similar size Zeiss Victory will be as significant at near dark.

The reason that I keep harping on low light performance is that in our state, shooting hours end at 1 hour after sunset.  The latest that I have taken a deer is 57 min after sunset, but there was a bit of moon that evening and the shot was only about 70 yards in the open, however I have taken many at around 45 min after sunset.  Under the right conditions (open fields, clear evening, some moon, short distances, etc) it is a very doable thing.  However, the more low light performance I can get, the better.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/18/2007 at 05:08
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The conquest gets my vote as best bang for the buck.....yes there are better ones, but that optics pyramid just keeps getting steeper.....and more pointy  I believe you will see increasingly less optical difference for increasingly more $. The mid level scopes like the conquests - 4200's - Monarchs are where you see the last really big noticable optics jump and after that its ultra fine refinements......maybe one more line on an acuity chart, or even part of one.....maybe a couple more minutes in fading light.

   focus
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/18/2007 at 07:42
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size doesn't always matter  - just because it's a 56mm objective, doesn't mean that it's gonna be a huge jump in brightness.

 

it DOES give you slight advantage at higher power in the lowlight.

 

if you need 8+ power or so to make long shots in the dark (not recommended), you need a bigger bell -

 

you can acheive a fine result in the lowlight w/ a 40 or 44mm scope at 5-6 power.

 

there is a noticable difference in the victory and conquest lines.  but the conquest is still a great scope.

 

J

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/18/2007 at 08:09
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could be wrong here, but zeiss doesn't make a conquest in this configuration-- I think your referring to the Diavari swfa has on their hit list. In any case that scope is so much better than a conquest-- anyway they both have plastic knobs, and for the same amount you can get some really nice turned brass ones with laser hash marks for the same price on a USO

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/18/2007 at 08:42
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they do make a 3-12x56 in conquest - it's pricey, for a conquest.

 

i would take that money and buy a 50mm kahles KX and have better glass/coatings/construction, if i were you.

 

J

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/18/2007 at 14:58
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Oh Dale....you and those plastic turret caps.......you still must not have hit one with a mallet and than one of leupolds aluminum ones huh? You'll find out which holds its shape and don't smash real fast.

   focus
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/18/2007 at 18:50
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for 2k per scope no, i don't want any plastic, --- but now that I'm started, -----with the comments that leo has always ridden on its laurels -- in this forum ---- the humour to me seems why no hits on Zeiss??? plastic turrets aside, this is one optics company that really says take what we got or don't take and if you do pay dearly. if the products are so much better than the matching competitor, then so be it. Until leo introduced their 2007 line, zeiss had kaka for reticles, and the diavaris ffp were as much fun as a toothache. Not saying leo is that great, but who is really sitting on their $$$$ signs. Abstract comments that the Zeiss military optics are better, etc, only mean something to me when the country that uses them has a military. Were the procurements bid out to an outside contractor??? doubt it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/18/2007 at 20:23
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Conquest I just bought was $589.....long way from 2K....huh? You think leupold has better optics than conquest in the same price range? Benchrest shooters are now freezing the reticles on target leupolds at an alarming rate....wonder why? Majority of shooters that take the time to buy and compare the different scopes in the mid priced range rate leupold behind 4200 elite - conquest - monarch in optical quality.........I know I do......look at your TBone scale right on this site. IMHO conquests have a bigger FOV - better more scratch resistant outside finish - brighter optics - more resolute optics - an easier, faster to use and adjust ocular focus - the power on the ring is really what power its on - parallax is set for 100yds where most actually shoot not 150yds - the reticle is etched and stays black when exposed to sun reflection....the leupold turns a pretty golden bronze - leupolds flare out much faster when at an angle to the rising or setting sun.......I still think you need to take a conquest cap and a leupold cap and smack em' both real good with a hammer.........let me know how it comes out.........

    focus 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2007 at 07:59
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i gotta side w/ the mob - zeiss is a better scope all around -

 

compare EVERY price point to price point between zeiss and leupold, and there is no contest.

 

HOWEVER, people could learn a lot from leupolds VAST offering. sizes, reticles, etc.

that is what leupold has going for it. and customer service.

 

but when you take identical scope to identical scope - there isn't a contest, at all.
and for the plastic caps - i have dropped, banged, and mistreated them for years w/ no problems.

 

J

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2007 at 10:50
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talkin about the real zeisses not the toys --- thats why its called a mob

 don't need a T-bone scale got at least one of each, or have had and used extensively

(scale and scope) take that back no swaros-- not pushin leo,--- definitley not pushin conquests--- your point is hammered home, although irrelavant, could whack the end on the sidewalk i guess although most hobby scopes would probably break, simply saying that zeiss modifies their products after the curve not ahead of it, if you like the conquest --its your money

 I'm sure now that the market has moved "forward" zeiss will be clearing out their conquests at bargin prices,   as they introduce new product,-- hope its better,  everybody wins. also hope they listen to the american market as they have using SFP in the new "varmit " scopes.

 

had word processor problems -- any one else having trouble with this site in the last 3 days??



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2007 at 12:25
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i haven't seen a zeiss that was a toy - do they have a scope line i don't know about?

 

their LOW level scopes hang w/ the VXIII's - do you disagree w/ this?

if so, you haven't compared them, Dale -

 

as far as 'following' the market trends or being behind the curve.......you are probably right.

but they are leaps ahead in quality for THEIR bargan line. But what they lack in original ideas, the
more than surpass in quality products.

 

compare a VXII to a conquest - pricepoint to pricepoint - and THEN see who's behind.

not a fair fight.  not even close.

 

plastic caps make it a toy? news to me.  i break toys.......not conquests.
and their victory diavari line is second only to maybe......schmidt and bender?

 

brother, not trying to step on toes or start a catfight - 9 out of 10 folks are wrong?  i don't think so.

 

dale i enjoy your posts all the time - just trying to figure out why you don't like zeiss.  it's a wonderful product.

 

J

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2007 at 12:54
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zeiss only makes two models --- too much and too little. until very recently no choices in their reticles, the fine cross hair I had on my conquest was at least 3/8 MOA -- can't say on all the conquests never had 14 of them like leos. (at one time) looked for zeiss scout scope, darn, looked for close focus darn, looked for a target darn, looked for run of the mill 3x9 well I'll be darn. as far as hitting the turret cap with a hammer, all it took was 400-600 rds on an AR10 to trash the erector, hate to see what a hammer would have done, (but I'm sure the plastic turrets would have survived). Could have been just that particular scope who knows, could have sent it back , but then why bother when dealing with mediocrity? Can't say on new Diavaris as soon as a cottage manufacturer, makes a replacement for the conquest turrets will probably try one. As for the Z's too long, too heavy and only half the power range is usable, but damn those plastic turret clicks turn me on!!!!!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2007 at 15:11
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Dale I try to debate features and points with ya.......but your responses wander all over and never completely make sense to me. I guess what turns me on is excellant optics for price range, consistant tracking and holding POI, a decent reticle I can see in low light, and its real nice when the scope fits a long action without off-set bases. My conquests do all of this for me and never only offer half the power range.....geez whats that about? I got over 3000 rounds under my favorite and no erector problems......in fact no problems at all. Leupold sat on their laurels and watched several scope companies move right past them......simple fact.......now they are dumping the coin slot adjustments and moving towards fast euro focus, and doing this index lens matching......but they still aren't buying good enough japanese lenses to compete with zeiss in their vx lll's.Yeah they got good resale value......they're light weight......they got lots of reticle options......I don't contest their strong points.......I'm just interested more in resolution - brightness - and contrast, in that same price range.

   focus


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2007 at 15:47
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like I say - not selling leos. debating features without parameter guidelines can only be a testamonial, the old ones may be a coin slot, but its not plastic, some like euro focus, if it doesn't turn the power ring at the same time. resolution -brightness (doesn't even have a meaning when talking scopes) contrast are meaningless unless a parameter measurement is there for comparison purposes.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2007 at 18:24
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Resolution, Brightness, and Contrast are what will make an optics buyer choose one brand over another, a large % of the time. All you need are two scopes to compare and a set of eyes to make the comparison. If one model is sharper - clearer - or brighter you can make your own decision no need for parameters just a comparator with the scopes you wish to compare installed on it. Why do you think so many threads are on here asking for comparisons of two or three different scopes? Its the topic most interesting to most scope shoppers......if enough people see a positive difference between two given scopes you can figure theres a difference. GOD gave us all a pretty good set of tools for evaluating optics........our eyes......I listen and evaluate what I hear but I believe what I see. I don't sell conquests, but I sure like using them

    focus

   
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2007 at 22:19
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resolution easy because its definable and contrast which is even measurable, but not brightness not an accepted optical condition or definition, ask koshkin- if the human element in you says go for it-- its still nothing more than a testimonial, of which as the saying goes along with other anatomical parts, everybody has one. When you say see, the cognitative and denotative meaning are different, see what I mean.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/20/2007 at 04:29
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If one scope allows you to see several minutes longer in fading light conditions its brighter. Easy to compare any two scopes and see which preforms better, I have some scopes that will still make out an object in the woods after the other can't see the object at all. Thats brighter.........Ilya uses instruments and comes up with exact numbers.......the rest of us have to use comparison and our eyes and see what the scope is capable of when compared against each other at failing light. I can't supply numbers but I sure as heck can tell which scope is brightest between two different models. Cognitative and denotative aren't going to mean kaka when the buck of a lifetime is moving past in low light and your scope won't make him out cause its just not bright enough. Thats where the rubber hits the road....and when comparing two scopes and picking the one that works better in low light brings home the venison.  Actually contrast is the hardest to test by comparison,  its more subjective. Once I was night coyote hunting about 11pm, we'd done two sets of calls and was getting ready to leave our rock break out in a several hundred acre field, almost no moon. My partner asked if I could even see a coyote to actually shoot if one came out.....I raised my rifle and peered thru the conquest scope........I asked for his rifle and looked thru his vari x ll leupold. I handed him my scope and never said a word.....one week later he bought a conquest. NUFF said about brightness, he didn't ask about cognitative and denotative comparison

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/20/2007 at 10:38
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Don't think koshkin uses machines. not sure what an exact number is--- is it a whole number, a decimal with more precision or a measured number agreeing with a theortical value, or from number theory a more correct number than the expression form than another anyway uso optic used to have a really good blurb on why brightness wasn't a good term on their old web site,  reading a leo catalog the other day used brighter, brightness, and then right in the middle a of the catalog a large paragraph on by brightness doens't count , really entertaining. denotative measurable, cognitative prozac factor, warm an fuzzy inside, contrast  or as leo puts it light management, brightness is the hardest to measure because it is actually a function of the exit pupil , and comparing two scopes with different lenses systems and coatings and saying one is brighter -well --- I'll bet you have an entire closet of tascos.

zeiss's web shows this scope (conquest 3x12) as being FFP boy i'll bet that will be an eye-opener to an internet purchaser.

my 3.5x10 40 Leo is "brighter" (especially with the alumina filters) than my Diavari 2.5x10 50 but the contrast (on 10x) and resolution isn't as good. do I prefer the zeiss in the dark , no its the kakas from 2.5 to 5 power which is what I use in low light. Never missed the game because of the scope!!

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/20/2007 at 10:57
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i have never heard anyone say that ANY leupold was brighter than a zeiss diavari - now i have officially heard it all.

actually, i have heard enough to sign off of this particular thread for good.

 

J

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/20/2007 at 11:23
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   WOW,  all I have to say is I must need my eye's checkedor maybe I need some of that corrective vision surgery  because I have never, never seen a Leupy even close to as bright as a Diavari of equal dimensions.  Dale is the Diavari of yours broken?  If not how's about a trade for a Leupy?

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