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Zeiss 6-24x72 - trying to evaluate, help please!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/01/2014 at 08:02
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Good Morning!

As the title says, I have a Zeiss 6-24x72 FL (current model) I am evaluating for purchase.  This is a demo model with over a 1K discount.  The rifle is a 26" heavy barrel 308 (175 SMK @ 2650) and typically shoots in the high .3s.  I have a week to decide if I should keep this scope.

First, yeah it's big.  The weight is not an issue with this rifle as it sees range time, long distance shooting in central WA and might get carried 400 yards to the edge of a big field we take Deer from.  We target shoot out to 1200+ yards.  We were also thinking this would be the cats azz for low light / moon light hunting Yotes.  This rifle also has no comb drop, and if my calcs are right a 1/3" thick strap on cheek pad is all I need for sighting.

Here's my take.  The scope is really bright (duh...).  The image is also really "flat" and parallax is touchy, meaning you have to adjust it a bit but once you do it's very clear.  I can make out individual pine needles from a branch at 450+ yards.  I was expecting brighter colors but am comparing this to a Swaro CTC 30x75 spotter I have.  The spotter has a large depth of field and has better colors.  It is also very crisp in image.  (read that as more "pop".)  I like the turrets, these are crisp, no lash and feel solid.  The zoom ring has the right tension as well as the ocular adjustment.

One issue...  I have been looking out one of the upstairs windows onto the golf course where we live.  There are a ton of Douglas Fir trees scattered about the neighborhood.  Everything looks good and I can easily make out birds and the individual scales on Pine cones to 600 yards (that is as far as I can see where we live), HOWEVER for about and hour in the late afternoon I am getting CA from one branch from a Fir.  I know this sounds dumb, but during that time I get a reddish shadow above the green in the pine needles on any power higher than 12.  I look at the same branch from the same position an hour later and get nothing but a clear image.  I am sure it is the way the sun is hitting it and he angle of the branch as I am not seeing issues from others.  

The scope has a bright, clear image.  Colors are not as good as my Swaro, almost pastel compared to it.  Depth is very flat with a small parallax range for focus.  It has the Rapid-Z 1000 reticle and the target turrets, good combo with the Strelok iPhone Ballistics.  (I can dial to 1200 yards or dial to 500 and use the holdovers as they are calibrated for 308 at 23-24 zoom power depending on elevation.)

Am I being a bit of a "bitch", or should I expect better colors from this scope.  I am guessing all scopes get some CA although I did not notice it on my old Z6 (2.5-10x) nor some of the S&B scopes I have had in the past.  Being an unused demo the price is incredible for the scope which prompted me trying it to begin with.  I am not really interested in other tactical scopes as I have been spoiled by German glass (Zeiss, Swaro, S&B) and have a 2600.00 limit.  (NF 20 MOA base and 1.3" rings already ordered and not to be included in the price...)

Any advice is appreciated.  I am taking it to the range (unmounted) on Friday morning and was hoping someone could give me a few testing pointers.  I have access to a really good color printer and can print up charts, whatever to help "score" this scope.  I have the chance at getting a new Z6i 3-18x50 at a great price (BT, 4Wi) but that limits me to 650 yards or so...



Thank you in advance,

Jeff

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/01/2014 at 10:29
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If you can make out pine needles at 450 yards and pine cone scales at 600 yards, you should be able to see bullet holes at 450+.
I'd buy that scope in a heartbeat.
If all info is accurate.
I don't shoot using colors, I shoot using details.
Just say'in.
Carry on.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/01/2014 at 10:39
cornhuskid View Drop Down
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That is my initial feelings as well.  I doubted my eyes for a bit and even broke out the rangefinder!

I'd like to "force" the CA to happen so I can understand it better...


Thank you!


Jeff

  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/01/2014 at 14:37
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When your done splitting hairs just buy it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/01/2014 at 14:55
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Yes, you are absolutely correct.  I can't get another "Alpha" scope until Spring so I wanted to make the right choice.

:)




Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/01/2014 at 15:56
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The soft colors you that you mention is I believe is a result of the optics being optimized for low lighting favoring blue in the spectrum. It is the finest scope I have had the pleasure to glass with on three or four occasions.
Like having a spotting scope for aiming.

I would not regret buying it at the price you mentioned.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/01/2014 at 16:23
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The reason colors don't appear to be as vivid through the Zeiss as in some other alpha level scopes is because the Zeiss design philosophy is to emphasize resolution above all other optical qualities, and as a result, contrast isn't as strong as in Swarovski, Leica, and some other optics. By the same token, if a manufacturer designs their optics for enhanced contrast, resolution suffers a tiny bit. With optics, you always have to give up something to gain something else. It's neither right or wrong, good or bad, it's just a conscious design decision.

It's a great scope. If you don't mind having a 72mm objective, it will serve you well, and no doubt it's probably unrivaled in low light. Personally, a huge scope like that isn't my cup of tea on a hunting rifle, but that's me. My objection is based solely on its huge form factor; optically it's superb.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/01/2014 at 18:57
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It certainly is large...  I had a D760 several years ago and this is not quite that big, but it's large!  It will work well for my "Alfalfa" rifle as well as long range plinker.  I have to correct the distances...  385 yards for the pine needles and 585 to the pine cones as described above.  The trees interlace a bit and I was able to pick out the branches.  Also...  I am not sure what kind of tree this is, but the pine cones at 585 are HUGE!  I drove to the other side of the course and checked them out.  Bigger than your fist.   

I VERY much appreciate all comments.  I think you are all spot on as clarity is not an issue, more color and depth of field. 

Do any of you think the addition of a sun shade or ARD would help with the bright sunlight CA?  Again, it is only one branch with the sun in the early evening.  I am taking notes and checking six distinct dintances and lighting conditions every 90 minutes to two hours as the day goes.  Urimaginaryfrnd is correct...  I have been a Software Engineer for 25 years and am too picky...  :)

Jeff

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/01/2014 at 19:09
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  To qualify my comment: I have never looked through an "alpha" scope.   To cure the CA problem with the Zeiss............... Quit looking at that damned branch!!!!!   Wink Bandito  Hope this helps.  Bucky
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/01/2014 at 19:48
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hehehehe!  THAT is funny (and true!)

Yeah, I was spoiled when I was single and a computer Contractor.  Now I have to save longer and not let her find the receipt!

I think after this is all said and done I am going to sneak out on the course and cut the damn thing down.  Good thing I am not getting CA off the house over there...

Wink

Jeff


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/01/2014 at 22:55
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I really think you already have your mind made up that you like it and want it and just want confirmation that it was the correct decision.  So here you have it  - Yes it was the correct decision.  Enjoy !!!!Cool
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/02/2014 at 20:50
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So far it is looking pretty good.  A couple of observations...

I looked through it at the same 8 spots every hour from 4:00pm-9:00pm last night.  From 4-6 CA could be seen on the same one branch.  7:00, no CA anywhere and at 8:00 only a very slight CA on a different branch at the same approx distance, but in the direction of the setting sun.  By 9:00 the sun was mostly down and no CA at all.  With the sun down the colors improved quite a bit.  I wonder if I am getting too much light at the other times.  I will be trying more night hours in the next two days, will post results sometime this weekend.

 I am heading out the range Friday AM with resolution and color charts to review at 100 yards.  I assume 100 is OK at 24X?  (is that the right test distance?  I have not done this before, but this is quite a bit of fun...)


Jeff

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/04/2014 at 15:32
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OK - Range report. 

Clarity is really good, meaning I could see bullet holes from my buddies 30-06 at 492 yards. 

Color was flat as before.

I am seeing two issues with this scope.  First, on bright objects like the target boards and steel targets (both white) I see almost a "glow" around them.  Also, when looking at the Rams at 500 meters if I move my head or eye a little off center, I get a "ghost" image of the target floating in the opposite direction. 

Ideas?


Also - Happy 4th!

Jeff


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/04/2014 at 20:35
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Idea -  have a couple of beers and a burger sit in the shade by the pool and dont worry - its a good day.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/05/2014 at 09:45
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Right, but the "glow" makes the targets about 1.5 times larger.  Really not a good sight picture at all.

Oh - and we did BBQ after the range trip!

:)

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/05/2014 at 10:46
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You see a 0.3 inch hole at 500 yards  - and have an issue with image quality?


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/05/2014 at 12:47
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A rifle scope is an aiming device. If you can see bullet holes at 492yds. I would say that is outstanding! What you are concerned with would only be an issue for me with my camera.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/05/2014 at 21:08
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You are confusing that rifle scope with a premium quality spotting scope. It's not, it is a premium quality rifle scope. 

  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/05/2014 at 21:27
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Galileo made his initial discoveries with an 8x telescope, saw the craters on the moon with a 10x using glass he ground himself and his premier discoveries were made with an approximately 30x telescope.  The scope you are questioning is MUCH superior to what Galileo used... even though optimized to sit on a rifle.   I have the Hensoldt 6-24x72... my wife purchased it for me, by the way (sweet Lady that she is)... and it is slightly superior to the Zeiss.  However, the Zeiss is nearly as fine an instrument as you can find in a riflescope.  I had some "misgivings" about the Hensoldt after my wife got it for me... stories of difficult customer service, etc (then I remembered, with the help of Chris Farris, that I had never had a CS claim on a Zeiss product and that those who had, had all reported superior service... so I quit worrying about it).  Your concerns, as mine were, are without substance...  there is "no there there"...

You have one of the finest riflescopes on the market today... if you want to use it for birdwatching and astronomy, you CAN... though it would be a waste.  It is made for precision shooting (at extreme range AND at night)... forget the other stuff...


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/06/2014 at 12:30
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Everyone...  thank you for the comments.  KB- do you have the same issue with white objects and "glow"?  I don't know how else to explain it.  It's like light scatter.  I also can't get the parallax out of the image.  You have to be exactly in one spot in the center otherwise a ghost image floats 180 degrees of your eye.  I can't believe that is normal as it won't adjust out.  I understand the model is one of the best which is why I chose it, however I think this particular scope has some alignment problems as I have not seen this behavior in my other Zeiss, Luppies or the Henny and S&B PMII 3-20 I sold last year.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/06/2014 at 12:40
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I DO NOT have the issues you describe.  I'd send it to Zeiss.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/06/2014 at 13:16
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I did not see this with my old Henny (56mm) either.  This is a demo model and I had to make up my mind on it yesterday.  I ended up sending it back and will either get a Z6i 3-18x50 with the bt, or try a zeiss 4-16 or 6-24x56.  I can get both new for about the same price...

We use to shoot out to 1200 or so, but have cut back to 700 yards.  With my load in the 308 I can get there (barely) with the Swaro at 2000ft.  I am pushing 175 smk @ 2627 fps.

It is frustrating as I have thought about getting one for several years only to get a lemon.  Luckily the dealer is very cool and gave me a week to look it over. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/06/2014 at 14:21
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Have you ever thought about trying this one, since you're into large objectives?

http://www.meoptasportsoptics.com/shop/en/r2-2-5-15x56-rd/r2-2-5-15x56rd/ctgRen.html

Performance rivaling Z, L, Swaro at a fraction of the price. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/06/2014 at 14:54
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Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

Have you ever thought about trying this one, since you're into large objectives?

http://www.meoptasportsoptics.com/shop/en/r2-2-5-15x56-rd/r2-2-5-15x56rd/ctgRen.html

Performance rivaling Z, L, Swaro at a fraction of the price. 


Here's a good site to view the Meopta scopes, looking at the prices it's not a fraction of the price but it is less.

http://swfa.com/Meopta-MeoStar-R2-Rifle-Scopes-C10776.aspx
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/06/2014 at 16:00
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JC & Mike - Any reviews on the turrets on these?

J

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