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Your thoughts on a "scout" scope

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/29/2012 at 15:45
JagerDog View Drop Down
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Gun:  Marlin Limited 45 Colt w/16" barrel

Use:  Forest cruiser/plinker with capability of deer/pig.

Considerations:  Weaver 4X Classic K.  Leupold 2.5X FXII, Leupold 1.5-4X VXII.

The weaver is about 1/2 the cost of the FX and $200 less than the VX.  The FX is substantially lighter.  The Leopold has MUCH more FOV even when the power is the same (per the specs here).

Thoughts?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/29/2012 at 15:54
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/29/2012 at 17:29
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Caught that one, but I think a bit beyond my budget for this application.  Also a bit big in dimension.  This little trapper is only like 37" long and I'd like to keep it looking like a scope attached to the gun, rather than the other way around.  The illuminated reticle is nice though
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/29/2012 at 17:35
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What about a 1-4x mounted traditionally.  The 1x will give you a much larger FOV than any scout scope will.

I have a Marlin .357 lever gun and have a Sightron 1-5x on it.  It is fantastic for that rifle.  Extremely fast and awesome FOV.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2012 at 12:41
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I have the FXII you mentioned on my 1895 SBL. It looks right at home. I am not entirely happy with the scope though as it seems to have a lot of parallax, or maybe its an illusion. Just posted a topic about it then I saw your post.
 
If I were to do it all over again, I would test fit a traditional scope with a slightly longer eye relief than typical, like:
 
 
or
 
 
and see if I liked it. I may still end up doing that.
 
Good luck.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2012 at 18:03
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Aimpoint 9000L 30mm Red Dot Sight 2 MOA Dot Aimpoint 9000L 30mm Red Dot Sight
Stock # - AIM11419
  • Matte
  • 2 MOA Dot
  • 30mm
  • Free Aimpoint Bikini Lens Cover w/ Purchase
$406.00 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2012 at 20:27
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my buddy just got the 2.5 fxII for a socom, and it worked out pretty good.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2012 at 21:04
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I have a 2.5 fxII for my 45/70.  It works fine.  I will probably upgrade, and honestly, I use open sights the most on it.   A low power fixed or that new variable scout would be a good choice.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2012 at 22:59
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I always love reading threads that have to do with scout style rifles and scopes because there are always people who don't understand the scout concept and thus will try to persuade someone to place a traditional scope on their rifle. 

I have two scout style rifles and love both of them.  They are light weight, quick to the shoulder, and are a blast to shoot.  They also have a very practical purpose for those who understand the concept and give the system a try.

I spent many weeks and months researching many different options from traditional scout scopes such as the Leupold 2.50x or the Burris 2.75x to red dots and EER variable powered scopes.  Both of the above mentioned dedicated scout scopes had nice glass and quality reticles but both were limited in their ability to provide me with what I was seeking as neither provided a quality view of the reticle in low light.  Both scopes reticles washed out in low light and thus defeated the purpose of what I needed in an outdoor scope.  You never know when you need that last 30-40 minutes of light.

As I mentioned earlier, I have two scout style rifles.  Although both utilize a forward mounted optic rail, the two rifles primary functions are quite different.  One of my rifles is a battle rifle and thus I wanted an optic that was fairly light weight as well as give me the ability to acquire a target in low light.  For my battle rifle, I chose an Aimpoint 4moa red dot scope.  The red dot gives the ability to shoot in little to no light and I can make quality hits on target out to 300 yards.  Magnification is not a concern for me as I can easily place the dot on target at the rifles intended range. 

My other rifle is scout bolt gun.  I had a different set of standards for this rifle as it would be going into the woods with me and possibly taking game.  My primary need for this scope was magnification, and while both the Burris & Leupold scout scopes give roughly 2.5x, I wanted more....lots moreBig Grin.  I knew the only way I would find what I was looking for was to utilize a handgun scope for the scout.  This became a bit tricky as most handgun scopes have varying amounts of eye relief.  After searching high and low, I found what I believed to have been the perfect scope for my needs in the Burris 3-12x handgun scope with Ballistic Plex reticle.  My Burris came with an illuminated reticle which I believe is discontinued now, but the Ballistic Plex is a nice feature for a long gun.  What really works for the scope is the quality of glass and a generous amount of eye relief (even at 12x).  The scope is a tad heavier than a 2.5x scout scope, but if weight is a major concern, Burris has the 2-7 power handgun scopes as well, personally I didn't mind sacrificing a few ounces for an extra 5x power.

If you don't need magnification, red dot sights work extremely well on scout rifles.  They have unlimited eye relief and give you the ability to shoot in dark with artificial light.  You can place quality kill shots on pigs and deer out to 150-200 yards with a 2-4 moa dot.   There are also plenty of quality red dot scopes out there that can be had for under $100. 

If you decide you want some magnification, do yourself a favor and consider a variable powered handgun scope as it gives you the ability to quickly acquire a target on the lower power (even 3x), as well as dialing up the power to reach out a bit further or really checking out your target.  Also, one thing to remember, if you purchase a handgun scope for your rifle, you will always have the scope for that very purpose and can mount in to a handgun if you wish.  Mine occasionally sits atop a S&W 460.  For me, options mean everything, as the more I can do with my system(s), the more value they have to me.  Please just remember, not all handgun scopes have the same (even advertised) eye relief.  I can vouch for the Burris line of handgun scopes as they do have generous eye relief, beyond that, you will have to do your homework and spend some time looking through various handgun scopes.  I can think of worse ways to spend an afternoon.

Hope this helps a bit.

Sincerely,

K9-
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/14/2012 at 15:35
supertool73 View Drop Down
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The whole purpose of the scout concept was fast sight acquisition because of moderate magnification and having an open loading port so you can have quick access to load it up.

Why is the world would you need either of those on a lever gun, that loads from the side and ejects from the side.  Especially with modern optics that have magnification near or at 1x.  You will have a larger FOV, faster sight acquisition, less eye strain, less stray light between your eye and the scope, less critical eye placement, etc, etc.  I could go on and on.

It was a decent idea in its time.  But on a lever gun with modern optics, you will handicap yourself more than help yourself.

Take the Ruger Scout.  They built it with a detachable mag.  So there goes the whole need of the scout type mount, because you do not need easy access to the loading port because you load from the bottom.  Why limit yourself to a few sub par optic choices when you can get a excellent modern low powered variable that will give you way more than any scout scope.

They have their place, but it is a dated design that has been passed up and bettered. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/14/2012 at 16:41
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supertool73,

Have you ever used a scout rifle in the field?  You obviously place a high importance on FOV and rightfully so, however, if you've ever used a scout rifle or knew the benefits of using one, you would understand the "scout" setup gives a far greater field of view as well as faster target acquisition due to the shooter being able to keep both eyes open without a scope 3 inches from your face.  Additionally, utilizing a forward mounted low power scope allows the rifle to maintain it's iron sights as a solid backup if something were to go wrong with the optic.  Something your rear mounted scope on your lever does not allow for. 

I respect your opinion as to your experience using a traditional mounted optic on your lever gun.  I'm sure you believe it's the greatest design since sliced bread.  There are others that have used and understand a need for a scout style rifle with a forward mounted optic.  I have different rifles set up for different purposes.  Do I think the forward mounted optic scout rifle is the only design worthy to be carried in the field?  No I don't, however it's a solid design and one than can offer what a lot of other rifles can't.

I normally don't get involved in debates with people over the scout rifle because there are usually people such as yourself who have never used one and are quick to crap on anyone who want's to try a system they know nothing about.  While I respect your opinion as to what system you like, I would suggest you try to respect the opinions of others who may like something different.  You might even be surprised as to the speed and efficiency of the design if you ever give it a try.  I know what I can do with it and others who have utilized the design in rapid fire drills on moving targets know what the system is capable of.

By the way, it was a Winchester 94 that originally prompted Col. Cooper to explore different design ideas within the scout concept.

Sincerely,

K9-
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/14/2012 at 21:09
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Get Your Popcorn Ready
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2012 at 12:48
supertool73 View Drop Down
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Yes I used a forward mounted optic on an AR and an SKS for several years.  It worked, but not as well as traditional mounted 1x optic.  I took several 4 day carbine classes with them, and I have taken several with traditional mounted 1x scopes.  The traditional is faster and offers you a better FOV.

That is the point of a 1x optic traditionally mounted, you can keep both eyes open and you have the huge field of view while looking through the scope and you can continue to focus with both eyes very easily while having the sight in your view.  In the past they did not have the ability to make true 1x variable scopes this is something new in just the last few years.  That was a reason for the scout design.  It gave you the ability to do the both eyes open thing easier.  But still at some point because you are looking through magnification you have to turn your focus to the eye looking through the scope.  It slows you down.  That is why eotechs and aimpoint are so freaking fast, because you never have to change your focus from one eye to the other.  The same can be done with a true 1x variable optic.  Then when you need more distance you can turn it up and use it more traditionally when speed is not as important.  Even having a 1x scope farther from your eye will slow you down because your FOV becomes smaller when looking through the optic.  If you have a 100 foot + FOV at 100 yards without any kind of having to change your focus how can it be better than that. 

If a scout design is truly faster why don't entry teams have the redots mounted out on the forearms of their rifles.  They are typically mounted right in front of their backup sight, not clear out by the front sight.  Speed is everything for that type of use. 

The backup sight thing is a decent argument.  And depending upon the type of rifle you choose, choosing a scout scope may indeed allow you to do that, while others may not.    

Col. Cooper at the time did not have a true 1x variable scope to put to use on his design.  I dare bet if he did, it may have changed things. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2012 at 13:51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2012 at 16:05
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Why not just go holographic?
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