New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Yet Another AR-15 Scope Question
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Check GunBroker.com for SWFA's No Reserve and No Minimum bid firearm auctions.

Yet Another AR-15 Scope Question

 Post Reply Post Reply   Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options Page  1 2 3>
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2010 at 11:08
mncarbine View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: April/19/2010
Location: Minnesnowta
Status: Offline
Points: 55
I have been reading forums for days now on this subject and still don't know which way to go, but figured this was the definitive source so here I am.

I am 60yo guy, i.e. I don't have young eyes.  I am seeking a scope for my new Rock River 16" 5.56.  I intend to primarily target shoot in the 100-200 yard range.  Part of me is old school and wants a traditional scope, but I know the military puts a red dot on the M4 which is the comparable gun.  For more tactical purposes, that might be a better choice, but for accurate target shooting, is glass with a crosshair or a red dot better?  Seems I have narrowed things down to two options unless you have a better idea for me:

1.  If I was to go red dot, there seem to be several choices:

a.  the Aimpoint 9000SC 2MOA seems like a viable option, but is about double the price

b.  The Vortex SPARC which is about half the price of the Aimpoint and priced closer to the scopes below

2.  In a traditional scope I have been considering several 3-9X40 scopes:

a.  Nikon Buckmaster with either the standard cross hair or BDC

b.  Bushnell Elite 4200 which only comes with standard crosshair

c.  Burris Fullfield II with Ballistic Plex reticle

These scopes are all within a few dollars of each other, so it isn't a price decision unless you suggest I get a red dot. 

A lot of people like the Burris mount as well as the Larue, but I can't see how much difference there can be with one vs. the other?

Thanks so much!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2010 at 11:27
SVT_Tactical View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
Chief Sackscratch

Joined: December/17/2009
Location: NorthCackalacky
Status: Offline
Points: 28753
You may want to look at something like this
Bushnell 1.25-4x24 Elite 4200 Rifle Scope 4A w/ Illuminated Dot Bushnell 1.25-4x24 Elite 4200 Rifle Scope
Stock # - 421424M
  • Matte
  • 4A w/ Illuminated Dot
  • 30mm
  • Rainguard
  • Free Fleece Pullover (Mail-In Coupon)
$419.95 
Add Bushnell 1.25-4x24 Elite 4200 Rifle Scope to Cart
it has nice close quaters ability and longer range accuracy that a red dot does not.  Unless your in a hurry i would wait on a 1-4 though because of the SS 1-4 that will be released soon (hopefully)  There is a thread about it here.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2010 at 11:27
SVT_Tactical View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
Chief Sackscratch

Joined: December/17/2009
Location: NorthCackalacky
Status: Offline
Points: 28753
As far as mounting, I love the PEPR.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2010 at 11:29
neilbilly View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: February/07/2010
Location: Sweeny TX
Status: Offline
Points: 999

Why not get both????........ well sort of.

http://swfa.com/Vortex-3-9x40-Crossfire-Rifle-Scope-P11245.aspx

http://swfa.com/Burris-3-9x40-Fullfield-II-Rifle-Scope-P10984.aspx


Hawke also makes the night eye series that has some options you might or might nnot be interested in. I've never looked through one of their scopes so can't suggest one, but they do look like they they would fit the bill. 

If you can fit it in the budget that Burris would be a really nice scope, but if not Vortex makes a good scope. 

Welcome

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2010 at 11:37
mncarbine View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: April/19/2010
Location: Minnesnowta
Status: Offline
Points: 55
Wow, you guys are fast...  I wrote basically the same message more than a day ago on the M4Carbine forum and although I got a lot of views, not a single response yet.

That Bushnell has less power and twice the price of the models I was considering.

Thanks for the reply on the Burris mount.

Lew
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2010 at 11:41
SVT_Tactical View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
Chief Sackscratch

Joined: December/17/2009
Location: NorthCackalacky
Status: Offline
Points: 28753
I just bought this scope to go on a 24" varmit AR and it may work as well for you and the price it good.  Decent low end power and topend as well at 10x.  The 50mm will allow plenty of light for you to at at 60yrs old that may be a good thing.
 
Vortex 2.5-10x50 Crossfire Rifle Scope V-Brite Vortex 2.5-10x50 Crossfire Rifle Scope
Stock # - CRF03ILLD
Matte, V-Brite
$159.95 
Add Vortex 2.5-10x50 Crossfire Rifle Scope to Cart 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2010 at 11:42
ccoker View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: February/13/2008
Location: Austin, TX
Status: Offline
Points: 2032
if you are wanting to primarily shoot targets from 1-200 yards, a red dot is not what you want, they are meant for fast and up close action, of course you can make center of mass hits at 200 yards but they are not for target shooting..

I would go with a standard scope, 3-9 is a good all around choice
or maybe something like a 2.5-10x42 Nikon Monarch

when you say target shooting, are you trying to put 10 shots in the same hole at 200 yards?
if so, you need more magnification and great glass for resolution

what's your budget?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2010 at 11:44
SVT_Tactical View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
Chief Sackscratch

Joined: December/17/2009
Location: NorthCackalacky
Status: Offline
Points: 28753
As should add that i do plan on using the above scope in conjunction with a fastfire mounted on a picatinny rail scope top for close in target acquisition eventually. it may also be an option you can explore.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2010 at 11:44
mncarbine View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: April/19/2010
Location: Minnesnowta
Status: Offline
Points: 55
Yikes....those are two scopes with similar specs, but a very wide price difference. 

I did consider some scopes that were a combo, like those two.  They don't tell you the MOA of the dot?  It seemed when talking about an Aimpoint most people suggested the 2MOA over the 4.  Neither of those two scopes tell you what the comparative size is of the dots?

The other consideration is the swag.  The Bushnell has the fleece coat and the Burris I mentioned has some free binoculars.  Don't know if the free binoc offer applies to that Burris.

I have yet to see a sample where the red dot is used for target shooting.  Like the Burris example, it has a deer in the site, and probably at some distance based on the sight picture. 

How would those scopes do when shooting holes in paper?

My total experience is a 2-9X Weaver on my .22LR :)

Thanks for the suggestions and the quick replies...amazing!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2010 at 11:53
SVT_Tactical View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
Chief Sackscratch

Joined: December/17/2009
Location: NorthCackalacky
Status: Offline
Points: 28753
Here is a picture of a M2 sight picture off this thread http://opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=22824&PN=3 similar to the 9000
 
Compliments of Helo
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2010 at 11:55
neilbilly View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: February/07/2010
Location: Sweeny TX
Status: Offline
Points: 999

If I could have a dot hide all my holes at 200 yards I'd need a moment and some tissue. Smoking

I looked on Vortex's web site and it doesn't say how large the dot is but I would think it's 1-2 moa which is what 2-4 inches at 200 yards? I wouldn't be ashamed of a 4 inch group at 200 yards. Yippee I'm sure lots of people can out shoot me, but the older I get the less I care what others can do. 


SVT is going to give us a good review of the Vortex before too much longer. I for one will be very interested in his findings. 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2010 at 11:58
SVT_Tactical View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
Chief Sackscratch

Joined: December/17/2009
Location: NorthCackalacky
Status: Offline
Points: 28753
Yes indeed  As soon as it arrives i will work on a very indepth review.  Not only regular target and all but also with the use of the ND3!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2010 at 11:59
cpwomack View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: January/29/2009
Location: Chattanooga
Status: Offline
Points: 523
I have been using one of the Burris Timberline 3-9 scopes on my plinker AR.  Glass is not bad for the price ($119 @ SWFA) and it is short and compact and does not look out of place on a 16" carbine.  I have it mounted in the PEPR and couldn't be happier, works great for killing paper.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2010 at 11:59
mncarbine View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: April/19/2010
Location: Minnesnowta
Status: Offline
Points: 55
Wonder why the standard Monarch is $300 and the BDC or Mil-DOT bumps it up another $100? 

I was hoping to get a scope and mount for $300 but I don't have a fixed amount.  I am notorious for seeking out bang-for-the-buck scopes.  That makes the Vortex very tempting, not to mention they are from Wisconsin, my neighboring state.  But I don't want to sacrifice $100-200 for an inferior scope, if in fact they are inferior?

I appreciate the feedback on the red dot-only being for quick acquisition which is as I assumed.  Does that apply equally when it is a traditional scope with a red dot like the two mentioned above?  Does the red dot help aim it, and is there an issue with red dots and older eyes?

Would like to have an overall use carbine.  I don't intend to go to war with it nor do I want to nail spikes at 500 yards.  I thought the 1-4X scopes might be too light on magnification for my use, although popular on ARs.  That is why I was considering the 3-9 or the 2.5X10.

Thanks again!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2010 at 12:01
cpwomack View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: January/29/2009
Location: Chattanooga
Status: Offline
Points: 523
You could look at the Monarchs on the sample list!  They are significantly cheaper.  I have one with the BDC reticle and while it is a good scope, the reticle is a little busy for me.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2010 at 12:05
mncarbine View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: April/19/2010
Location: Minnesnowta
Status: Offline
Points: 55
That is what I thought it would look like.  Also called co-witness.  Still seems that the combination of iron sights and red dot or red dot alone is more for "thing" shooting than target shooting. 

I suspect my handgun or M1 carbine would be suitable for close in work, and I think in most of those cases you are pointing and shooting and not even using a sight. 

I think the AR carbine will be used more for punching holes in paper, but I don't want a scope that is too huge or unable to shoot shorter ranges.

Thanks!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2010 at 12:08
mncarbine View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: April/19/2010
Location: Minnesnowta
Status: Offline
Points: 55
As far as the Burris line goes, I was looking at a step up from the Timberline, i.e. the FullField II.  I know what you mean about "out of place" on a 16" barrel, but then I am not building it for eye appeal or to please someone else :)  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2010 at 12:11
neilbilly View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: February/07/2010
Location: Sweeny TX
Status: Offline
Points: 999

The timberline for $120 is a great scope. It's compact, has nice clear glass and good eye relief. In short it's the best $120 scope I've ever seen. "It's actually higher usually, but currently on sale" Mine is mounted on a Ruger Mini-30.

http://swfa.com/Burris-3-9x32-Timberline-Rifle-Scope-P11002.aspx


I own 2 Vortex Diamondbacks and they are very good. I looked side by side through the Diamondback and Nikon Buckmaster because I own one of each. The vortex is every bit as good as the Nikon, and was over $100 less money.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2010 at 12:12
cpwomack View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: January/29/2009
Location: Chattanooga
Status: Offline
Points: 523

With a magnified optic you will not see the front sight, just a shadow at the lower powers.  On my carbine with the 3-9, I don't notice it at all. 

I had a red dot, never got the hang of it.  10 years in the Marines (1993-2003) and we were never issued any like they are now.  I prefer open sights to red dots. 
 
3-9 and 2-7 are not bad up close.  I have a 2-7 on my R700 and have no problem making shots on deer up close here in TN.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2010 at 12:14
cpwomack View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: January/29/2009
Location: Chattanooga
Status: Offline
Points: 523

If you are shooting off-hand a longer heavier scope can sometimes make a carbine feel front heavy, but all you are doing is shooting paper, then it should't bother you.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2010 at 12:31
mncarbine View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: April/19/2010
Location: Minnesnowta
Status: Offline
Points: 55
Not to throw a monkey wrench in the works, but I spotted a Weaver 2.5-10X Classic Extreme in the used list.  I noticed it is no longer a current model.  Says it has the illuminated double-x sight?  This is even a bigger scope, i.e. 56mm.  Would that be really nuts to consider?  We haven't talked about illuminated sights, just plain and red dot.  Lets say red dot is out due to your feedback, but what about illuminated? 

BTW, my front sight is a flip type so it will be down when using the scope.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2010 at 12:48
mncarbine View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: April/19/2010
Location: Minnesnowta
Status: Offline
Points: 55
Originally posted by cpwomack cpwomack wrote:

If you are shooting off-hand a longer heavier scope can sometimes make a carbine feel front heavy, but all you are doing is shooting paper, then it should't bother you.



Isn't that how you offset barrel rise, like a compensator :)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2010 at 13:25
SVT_Tactical View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
Chief Sackscratch

Joined: December/17/2009
Location: NorthCackalacky
Status: Offline
Points: 28753
The vortex is suppose to be in line with the other crossfires.  SO its great glass and product for the money.  Like it was mentioned before i am going to run the thing through a very grueling test when i get my claws on it so if you are intriqued by it I would give me about two weeks to have you a review on it.  (its on backorder currently but should have it by the end of this week or next hopefully)  I like having a dot reticle like that one had or a 4a with illuminated dot like the bushnell has.  It can be turned up bright enough that just a glance will allow some close up work but really helps pinpoint at a distance too.  It should also help target wise when you put that red dot on a target vs a black reticle alone on black paper target......depending on your targets you use.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2010 at 13:27
SVT_Tactical View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
Chief Sackscratch

Joined: December/17/2009
Location: NorthCackalacky
Status: Offline
Points: 28753
Originally posted by mncarbine mncarbine wrote:

Originally posted by cpwomack cpwomack wrote:

If you are shooting off-hand a longer heavier scope can sometimes make a carbine feel front heavy, but all you are doing is shooting paper, then it should't bother you.



Isn't that how you offset barrel rise, like a compensator :)
Not implying top heavy while pulling the trigger but instead when your actually holding the gun and looking down the sites it would feel like if you lost your grip it would tend to fall forward and tumble ( get it)?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2010 at 13:29
cpwomack View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: January/29/2009
Location: Chattanooga
Status: Offline
Points: 523
With a 223 I have no problems with barrel rise, now on my 308 AR it can be a beast.  I did order a comp for it.  The weaver does look interesting.  I have never used an illuminated reticle, but want one for hunting hogs.  I know a lot of people like them and if the scope is in your range go for it.  I have never mounted a scope with that big of an objective on an AR, but I don't think it would be a problem.
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  1 2 3>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Similar Threads: "Yet Another AR-15 Scope Question"
Subject Author Forum Replies Last Post
Scope choice for AR-15 for 50-300 yards jbannow Tactical Scopes 10
AR-15 scope and 17 HMR scope, budget mr_blasto Rifle Scopes 15
Need Advice: AR-15 Scope 100-300yd Davd Rifle Scopes 9
AR-15 Scope mdstevens1370 Tactical Scopes 8
AR-15 Scopes stud722 Varmint Scopes 53
1" scope mount for AR-15 royta Rings and bases 4
ar 15 scope for 600 yards ilikeguns111 Rifle Scopes 6
AR-15 scope for hogs & varmints txgolfer45 Varmint Scopes 41
Scope for AR-15 Valjean Rifle Scopes 11
AR-15 Scope height and options?? bookworm Rings and bases 4


This page was generated in 0.563 seconds.