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WOULD A WHITE SCOPE ??????

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/26/2009 at 19:18
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I am having vertical poi shift as the temperature goes up and it is elevated when the scope is in the direct sun light . I have removed the scope and used the rifles with iron sights and it has improved the problem greatly . If I wrapped the scopes with white tape do you think it would help .Marvin
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More info, such as the brand of rifle, caliber, ammo type, stock, scope, mounts and bases, temperature changes, distance shooting, amount of change in the poi, shooting set up, etc would help.  Using irons may just mean that your groups are so large that you cannot tell if you are having vertical poi problems.  Let us know.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/26/2009 at 19:26
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1.  What scope (make and model)?
2.  What mounts?
3.  What rifle?
4.  What ammo?
5.  What distance?
6.  Do you see similar issues with other scoped rifles?
7.  At what temperature range are you seeing the problem?
8.  Do you only see the problem after the rifle/scope get hot?
9.  What is your level of experience/comfort in marksmanship?
10. Have you tried cooling the rifle/scope, then shooting again?


Depending on the setup and the ambient temp, it is possible, but not probable.   Are you going from 65 degree house to 130 degree Death Valley range?  if not, I kinda doubt that is the issue.

But we should be able to help find the issue.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/26/2009 at 19:26
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Originally posted by safariarms man safariarms man wrote:

More info, such as the brand of rifle, caliber, ammo type, stock, scope, mounts and bases, temperature changes, distance shooting, amount of change in the poi, shooting set up, etc would help.  Using irons may just mean that your groups are so large that you cannot tell if you are having vertical poi problems.  Let us know.


"Great minds...", or something.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/26/2009 at 20:16
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3 different .177 air rifles . Groups are 10 shot strings 1- 11/2 inches 65 yards with irons or scope . Scopes are 3 bsa 3 x 9 air rifle rated and one bsa contender . Temperature can change from 68 degrees at 8 a.m . to 90 -95 by 10;30 am . Mounts are two piece bsa . The elevation shift is as much as 3 - 4 inches in direct sun with scopes and with iron or target apertures it is only 1 -2 inches . All 3 Scopes showed the same lift pattern . Marvin

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/27/2009 at 13:43
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sounds like its more of a gun prob. than a scope prob.  poi changes with or with out scope, diff. in hight is close to the diff. of your line of sight. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/27/2009 at 14:11
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Dolphin Overton

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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

Originally posted by safariarms man safariarms man wrote:

More info, such as the brand of rifle, caliber, ammo type, stock, scope, mounts and bases, temperature changes, distance shooting, amount of change in the poi, shooting set up, etc would help.  Using irons may just mean that your groups are so large that you cannot tell if you are having vertical poi problems.  Let us know.


"Great minds...", or something.
Maybe with just both have ESPN.Big Smile
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/27/2009 at 14:26
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Originally posted by melloroadman melloroadman wrote:

3 different .177 air rifles . Groups are 10 shot strings 1- 11/2 inches 65 yards with irons or scope . Scopes are 3 bsa 3 x 9 air rifle rated and one bsa contender . Temperature can change from 68 degrees at 8 a.m . to 90 -95 by 10;30 am . Mounts are two piece bsa . The elevation shift is as much as 3 - 4 inches in direct sun with scopes and with iron or target apertures it is only 1 -2 inches . All 3 Scopes showed the same lift pattern . Marvin

3 different rifles and 3 different scopes and I assume all are mounted with the 3 different scopes with each having their own set of mounts.  Odd, no common denominator, except the brand of scope and rings, but that would be unusual for the same problem to occur on the different rifles.  Are the rifles all the same brand and model or different makes?  Have you tried different scopes on different rifles?  What type of .177 pellets are you shooting?  All lead, or some of the fancier copper stuff?  Just out of curiosity, try shooting to a point of aim that you would normally do at 830, but do it at 1030, without ever shooting the rifle before that time and make sure the rifle is at the same temperature it would be at 830.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/27/2009 at 16:57
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Originally posted by melloroadman melloroadman wrote:

I am having vertical poi shift as the temperature goes up and it is elevated when the scope is in the direct sun light . I have removed the scope and used the rifles with iron sights and it has improved the problem greatly . If I wrapped the scopes with white tape do you think it would help .Marvin
 
Welcome to OT, Marvin!
 
Just out of curiosity, how did you gather the data to isolate temperature as the lone variable that you suspect is causing this problem?  Not implying that this isn't precisely what's causing the problem; I've just never heard of this before, and I frequently shoot in the heat, living in Texas.  I even shoot prairie dogs on the open plains of NM and the TX panhandle, with the rifle sitting out in the hot sun all day long, and I've never seen this cause POI shift. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/27/2009 at 19:06
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what brand of air rifles are they. sometime the scopes that come with they airguns sucks, then again u did say they was  bsa scope that could be it right there.

Edited by hunterwingler - July/27/2009 at 19:06
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/27/2009 at 21:06
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Originally posted by hunterwingler hunterwingler wrote:

... then again u did say they was  bsa scope that could be it right there.


Ah, yes; I missed that part.  My admittedly brief experiences with BSA scopes have not been very encouraging, to put it mildly.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/27/2009 at 22:44
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I have paid very close attention to wind , temp , target shadow , sun angle , the last 4 times out too the range . And the scope might not be as big of a problem as I thought . I have been using my .177 condor with target aperatures front and rear these past 4 times . I am using crosman 10.5 grain pellets at 1000 fps at 65 yards . I think I am at the max that that pellet will go as far as fps and distance which is not helping . I will soon be making my own pellets and will be able to up the grains to 32 if I want . I am shooting at a range that faces more west than north and this is causing some problems . The light pellet is being effected buy the heat more than the scope . Two days I had really no temp. change and the poi stayed OK as far as height goes . But today the temp went up and as it did the poi did as well . This is with me and the rifle in the shade but the target in the sun 65 yards away . It was calm enough I could see what was going on this time . Then the wind picked up to 5 -10 mph and I had to compensate for that . Marvin
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/27/2009 at 23:39
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Weaver 4x28 Classic Rimfire Rifle Scope Weaver 4x28 Classic Rimfire Rifle Scope
Stock # - 849430
  • Matte
  • Dual-X
  • 1"
$119.95 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/28/2009 at 01:19
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i could be wrong but i dont  think the heat or cold really has anything to do with how a pellets flys.

Edited by hunterwingler - July/28/2009 at 01:20
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/28/2009 at 20:38
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Sounds like as you expect.  As the temperature rises, hot air rises and the low mass projectile at a relatively low velocity rises a small amount resulting in only a change in your vertical poi upwards.  This would make sense given the multiple variables and no real common denominator except for the change in temperature and the fact that the change in poi is only in the vertical dimension and upwards.  It will be interesting to see how your higher mass pellets work given their inherent higher momentum.  Let us know how they react to the temperature changes.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/28/2009 at 22:19
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I will but it might be awhile . I ordered a Corbin die 9 months ago and was told it would be 6 - 12 months for delivery . Hopefully I am 3/4 of the ways through the wait . Marvin
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/29/2009 at 09:37
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try this, zero the scope in the 85-95 deg. heat. then shoot it the next a.m. to check poi. it should be 3-4 low. this is because your velocity is standerd ( lower ) in the am, and high ( higher ) as the temp goes up.  hot air expands faster than cool air thus causing higher fps.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/29/2009 at 22:22
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Yes that is what has happened . What was throwing me off for a while was as the sun goes higher the shot goes lower and some days this was balancing out and some days not . Those are good hours for me to shoot and be comfortable . But it puts me at the worse time of day as far as the sun and the horizon movement as well as target shadows .Thanks Marvin
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