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Worth While Upgrade...

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jbsavage View Drop Down
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    Posted: July/05/2012 at 15:20
Well, this is my first post to opticstalk.com, but I have been a long time lurker here.  I currently have a Vortex Diamondback 4-12X40 (non adjustable objective lens) scope on my Savage Model 11 (.308) that I use for deer hunting as well as target shooting at the range.  I purchased it after reading all of the favorable reviews on the Diamondback line.  However, after owning it for about 2 years I have grown to dislike the incredibly short eye relief as well as the finicky eye position at maximum magnification.

I have been considering getting a Nikon Buckmaster 4.5-14x40 w/ side focus, mainly because of the amazing prices that I've seen on the Sample List. But I wasn't sure if this would be an upgrade or more of a side step.

Or would my money be better spent stepping up & purchasing a Nikon Monarch 4-16x42 or Vortex Viper HS 4-16x44?

Thanks
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cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheaptrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/05/2012 at 15:23
Welcome to Optics Talk. 

Never looked through a Diamond Back, but I really liked the Buckmaster in that very flavor I had several years ago. Had it on a .300 RUM Sendero and it served it and me well. 

Really a great buy, IMO. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbsavage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/05/2012 at 15:27
Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Welcome to Optics Talk. 

Never looked through a Diamond Back, but I really liked the Buckmaster in that very flavor I had several years ago. Had it on a .300 RUM Sendero and it served it and me well. 

Really a great buy, IMO. 


How's the eye relief & eye positioning at max magnification?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RotoReuter_DM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/05/2012 at 15:48
I would save for something nicer than the Buckmaster. The Diamondback is better IMHO than the buckmaster. The Diamondback does get picky in high mag. But I have some experience with the buckmasters and didn't like anything about them. Super narrow field of view.
Old Mil ftw
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jbsavage View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbsavage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/06/2012 at 09:07
Ok.  Well, looks like I have one yea & one nay.  What is everyone's thoughts on the Viper HS 4-16x44 & the Nikon Monarch 4-16x42?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris Farris II Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/06/2012 at 09:36
I would save up for the Monarch or Viper HS. Both great scopes for the $$.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lucytuma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/06/2012 at 11:07
I agree with stepping up to the next level. Going from the diamond back to the buckmasters is as you said "a side step".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bugsNbows Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/06/2012 at 11:17
jbsavage...welcome to posting on the OT Forums! IMO, the Viper HS barely edges out the Nikon Monarch. For the $, it's a winner. I'd go that route if the decision were mine. Yippee
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KIMBER8400AT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/06/2012 at 16:03
Have u looked at bushnell elite doa?
I currently have one and the doa reticle is very accurate for holdovers.
Just anither option to consider.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbsavage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/09/2012 at 14:39
Originally posted by KIMBER8400AT KIMBER8400AT wrote:

Have u looked at bushnell elite doa?
I currently have one and the doa reticle is very accurate for holdovers.
Just anither option to consider.


I can't say that I have looked at one.  I'll add it to my list, & try to look at it in person.  Thanks!
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Alan Robertson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alan Robertson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/09/2012 at 15:38
Originally posted by jbsavage jbsavage wrote:

Originally posted by KIMBER8400AT KIMBER8400AT wrote:

Have u looked at bushnell elite doa?
I currently have one and the doa reticle is very accurate for holdovers.
Just anither option to consider.


I can't say that I have looked at one.  I'll add it to my list, & try to look at it in person.  Thanks!
Welcome to OT forums jbsavage
While the more expensive Bushnell Elites have better glass than the Diamondback, they don't have any better eye relief- 3.3".
That's another side step.

Don't know your budget, but here are some great scopes with longer eye relief:

http://swfa.com/Minox-3-9x40-ZA3-Riflescope-P46135.aspx

http://swfa.com/Pentax-3-15x50-Gameseeker-Rifle-Scope-P45834.aspx

http://swfa.com/Zeiss-3-9x40-Conquest-Rifle-Scope-P608.aspx

"Garg'n uair dhuisgear"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stickbow46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/09/2012 at 17:38

Welcome to the OT!

+1 with Alan.
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jbsavage View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbsavage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/10/2012 at 07:35
Originally posted by Alan Robertson Alan Robertson wrote:

Originally posted by jbsavage jbsavage wrote:

Originally posted by KIMBER8400AT KIMBER8400AT wrote:

Have u looked at bushnell elite doa?
I currently have one and the doa reticle is very accurate for holdovers.
Just anither option to consider.


I can't say that I have looked at one.  I'll add it to my list, & try to look at it in person.  Thanks!
Welcome to OT forums jbsavage
While the more expensive Bushnell Elites have better glass than the Diamondback, they don't have any better eye relief- 3.3".
That's another side step.

Don't know your budget, but here are some great scopes with longer eye relief:

http://swfa.com/Minox-3-9x40-ZA3-Riflescope-P46135.aspx

http://swfa.com/Pentax-3-15x50-Gameseeker-Rifle-Scope-P45834.aspx

http://swfa.com/Zeiss-3-9x40-Conquest-Rifle-Scope-P608.aspx



I was trying to keep it under $500.00, but would really like a 4-16 or a 3-15 magnification with a side focus for parallax .  The scopes that I was looking at was the Vortex Viper HS 4-16x44 or the Nikon Monarch 4-16x42.  Both have a constant 4 inches of eye relief.  However I'm not sure how finicky the eye positioning is on these two.  Also how does the Pentax that you recommended stack up compared to these two?

Thanks
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DCAMM94 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote DCAMM94 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/10/2012 at 08:15
At 16x, the eye box is pretty narrow on the vortex HS.  At just a little less, it's not bad, and as you cruise down toward 8x, it's very forgiving.
Although personally I am quite content with existing explosives, I feel we must not stand in the path of improvement. -Winston Churchill
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbsavage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/10/2012 at 10:44
Originally posted by DCAMM94 DCAMM94 wrote:

At 16x, the eye box is pretty narrow on the vortex HS.  At just a little less, it's not bad, and as you cruise down toward 8x, it's very forgiving.


How's the eye relief at 16x?
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Alan Robertson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Alan Robertson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/10/2012 at 11:41
jbsavage said:
"I was trying to keep it under $500.00, but would really like a 4-16 or a 3-15 magnification with a side focus for parallax .  The scopes that I was looking at was the Vortex Viper HS 4-16x44 or the Nikon Monarch 4-16x42.  Both have a constant 4 inches of eye relief.  However I'm not sure how finicky the eye positioning is on these two.  Also how does the Pentax that you recommended stack up compared to these two?"
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The Gameseeker glass is between a Diamondback and Monarch or Viper. Pentax scopes were designed/built with a great deal of assistance from Burris, which is the king of the big eyebox, but you'd just have to check one yourself. Lightseeker XL's are Pentax best glass.

This may be your answer:
http://www.samplelist.com/-P54076.aspx
Here are some more to look at:
http://wfa.com/Meopta-4-12x50-Meopro-Rifle-Scope-P45968.aspx 
http://swfa.com/Hawke-45-14x42-Sidewinder-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P44553.aspx 
If you could swing it...
http://www.samplelist.com/-P56934.aspx
http://www.samplelist.com/-P55422.aspx 

One thing... if you don't like the Diamondback short eye relief, you don't like it, but it should be good to go on a .308, provided you don't crawl up on it and whack yourself.

"Garg'n uair dhuisgear"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DCAMM94 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/10/2012 at 11:49
Originally posted by jbsavage jbsavage wrote:

Originally posted by DCAMM94 DCAMM94 wrote:

At 16x, the eye box is pretty narrow on the vortex HS.  At just a little less, it's not bad, and as you cruise down toward 8x, it's very forgiving.


How's the eye relief at 16x?


I don't think it's bad at all, but I've never measured it.  According to the Website, relief is 4", so even Vortex says it's almost a full inch more than the D-back.
Although personally I am quite content with existing explosives, I feel we must not stand in the path of improvement. -Winston Churchill
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dyelynn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/10/2012 at 12:02
i don't think they've been mentioned before, but there's also minox...

4-20x50 with side focus
http://www.samplelist.com/Minox-4-20X50-ZA5-Rifle-Scope-DEMO-B-P55325.aspx

3-15x50 with side focus
http://swfa.com/Minox-3-15x50-ZA5-Riflescope-P48162.aspx
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbsavage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/10/2012 at 13:15
Originally posted by Dyelynn Dyelynn wrote:

i don't think they've been mentioned before, but there's also minox...

4-20x50 with side focus
http://www.samplelist.com/Minox-4-20X50-ZA5-Rifle-Scope-DEMO-B-P55325.aspx

3-15x50 with side focus
http://swfa.com/Minox-3-15x50-ZA5-Riflescope-P48162.aspx


Thanks for the suggestions, but unfortunately those break the $500.00 budget.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marine24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/10/2012 at 13:37
I've been a big fan of Nikon's Monarch line with the 4-16x44 with the BDC or Mil-Dot reticle standard on my bolt guns.  The eye relief has been consistent throughout the magnification range, which was a nice feature when I had it mounted on a 340 Weatherby.
 
Vortex's Viper/Viper HS line is also a very quality scope.  I have the 2-7x on a Weatherby XXII and is a great scope for the rimfire.
 
Overall, the Monarch and Viper line are both quality scopes and represent good value for the money.
 
Lot of good choices in this price point, but believe you will be very pleased with either of them.
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