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Working on a load for 300H&H

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/11/2007 at 16:46
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I have a 300H&H with a 26 inch barrel. Started on a new load for 200gr Nosler Partition. Some interesting stuff. The difference a correct load could make blew my mind. Unfortunately we do not have your powders but Somchem products. The powder I used was Somchem S365. It seems close to your (American) powders Imr4350, H205, Hercules Rel19 or RWS R904, if this makes sense.

Anyway, started at their mid range of 57 gr, which went all over the target. Gradually worked my way down to 51,5 gr and got a reasonable grouping. I only measured the velocity of this "accurate" load at 2450ft per sec. Very disappointing. It has been suggsted that I go to a slower burning powder, the Somchen S385. Below are the targets for each reduced load.

 

57g S365

 

55 gr S365

 

53 gr S365

 

 

51,5gr S365



Edited by 8shots
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/11/2007 at 16:52
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Further to the above load development I also swithched to a 165gr Spartan bullet. This is a monolithic bullet in the BarnesX  class. I got this bullet to settle down at 56g S365. Velocity measured at 2846 ft per second. Also disappointing for a magnum. Again need to check out a slower burning powder.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/11/2007 at 21:58
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how did the r-19 do?? i would maybe try r-22  although that last target looks pretty good for a big gun like that what is that like 5 shots under a 50 cent piece??
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/12/2007 at 04:52
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Pyro, maybe my posting is not all that clear. I only used S365 powder. We do not have access to your powders. On the web I found a table that compares our powders to yours, and the powders I listed was the comparitive American(?) powders. I enclosed thge list so that hopefully it would make sense to other readers on the forum.

Yes, I am quite satisfied as a hunting rifle to go with the last target. However for a 300H&H I should be seeing speeds in excess of 2950 ft per second on those bullets. Hence wanting to try slower burning powders.

 

Can anyone give me the trajectories for the two load/ bullet combo? Out to 200 and 300m.

165g Spartan (BarnesX) at 2850 ft per second zeroed 2 inches high at 100m and

200g Nosler partition at 2450 ft per second and zeroed at 100m??

 

It will be much appreciated!!!!

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/12/2007 at 10:44
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it is likely that your powders are made by norma which would make them indentical to the R alliant series

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/12/2007 at 11:08
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Dale,

Thanks for your help on this one! I am going on my first hunting trip for the 2007 season. We are going for kudu in the Eastern Cape. We leave on Thursday for a two day hunt. So hopefully I will have a few pictures to share!

Our Somchem powders are in fact made in South Africa by the Somchem company. They are a division of the Denel Group which made our arms and ammuntion for the "White Apartheid Regime" during the embargo years when the world turned their backs on us. They did then and still now have State protection as an essential service, hence only their powders are freely available and used by all South Africans. They do make a good range and a good quality product.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/12/2007 at 11:43
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superiority of one powder over another is highly overrated-- as long as they go boom (smelling good counts) as long as you have a relative burn index you should be able to "hone" in on the good zone.  Good luck on your hunt!!!!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/12/2007 at 12:40
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Thanks Dale. My friend and I have been invited on a "corporate" hunt. Someone we do business with is taking a couple of guys on a business trip. Not all of them are hunters, but they will go along for the beer and the venison. We have been invited along on an all expenses paid providing we do the shooting for these none hunters. We said we needed some time to think about this..... about a split second!! So we have an open cheque book to shoot a good couple of kudu.

Hence the frantic load development and getting my new rifle up and running.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/21/2007 at 07:39
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I have returned from the hunt and accounted for 4 kudus and 4 springbuck! I used the Spartan monolithic bullets and on the accuracy level did very well. I opened my account by taking a kudu cow at 250m with a headshot. The springbuck also fell to head and neck shots. But the knockdown effect of these "light" bullets suck and I will not use them on kudu again. I did not shoot anything outstanding, so no pictures to drool over. We went for venison animals. I had to let a very good bull go as he was just to clever for me. He kept his vitals obscured by branches and bush and finally evaded me.

So I am back at the range with a slower powder Somchem S385. As you can see from the target the rifle just does not like the hot loads. Damm

The 67 gr should give about 2800ft per second. I tried 67, 66 and 65. I will try 64 and 63 next.The 63 should still give speeds in excess of 2600 ft per second. The shots we take are long excess of 250m going to 350.

1 and 1 = 65g

2 and 2 =66gr

3 and 3 =67gr

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/21/2007 at 18:59
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i dont know take this for whatever you want but i havent had any success with anything over .308 cal buy trying to load it hot, usually i gotta keep stuff under 3000fps to make it shoot worth a damn, 30-06 300 winm 300wsm anyways.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2007 at 03:18
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Thanks Pyro6999 for your input. The projected speed on the "hot load" I was hoping for is 2800ft per second. The loads I am going to try later today should be around 2600 to 2700 fps. So the speeds are actually not that hot, hence my dissapointment.

 



Edited by 8shots
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2007 at 06:08
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Basics, basics, basics. I must stick to basics! I went back to the range today and tried 62 gr, 63gr and 64 gr. And then something told me to try a different seating depth (maybe a page out of the Reloading for Dummies book). I used 66gr and seated the bullet 2mm deeper then the day before. I have been using 91mm which placed the rounds a mm of the landing. So I seated the 66gr at 89mmOAL. And then things started to come together! The shots marked 4 and 4 was 66gr behind a 200gr Nosler Part. This should give me a decent speed of 2700fps+. So with a bit of fine tuning I think I have a good load for Mr Kudu Bull.

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2007 at 18:54
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that looks pretty good.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/28/2007 at 08:33
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Ok to finish the development thread from my side, I tried to get to a load that will get me out there as in 300yds+. So I pushed the envelope a bit to see what a faster speed would do at the correct seating depth.

I went one gr over the recommended 67grS85. The 67 should give 2750fps. So at 68 I am hoping to be over 2800fps. Will chronograph later.

At 68gr I got a very good indication grouping at under 1/2inch. The idea was to test if a sweet spot excisted at higher speeds.

I will be hunting with this load of 68gr behind a 200gr Nosler Part.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/09/2007 at 15:24
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I went hunting on 6 Jul 07 with the load of 68gr S365 behind a 200gr Nosler Partition. Before the hunt I put the bullet over a chrony and got 2850fps. I also shot at 200m to check bullet drop. I was 1.75 inches high at 100m and zeroed at 200m.

I shot this Kudu at a distance of about 300m+ (unfortunately left my rangefinder behind). The shot was a frontal shot and I missed the chest. The bullet took the left front shoulder high up and completely shattered the bone, anchoring it for a kill.

So the load and bullet performed very well.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/19/2007 at 00:52
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Nice one 8shots!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/19/2007 at 00:57
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Dale, all South African powders are made by Somchem of S.A.  Some of their powders are pretty good!  I was getting a velocity spread of 2 m/sec (6 fps) in my 303 using MR200.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/19/2007 at 01:00
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8shots, have you checked for run-out?  Just a thought, but if seating depth has that profound an influence, it could be that your cases are getting distorted when seating too deep.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/19/2007 at 16:55
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As a long time lover of H&Hs, I have found, contrary to any loading book, that RL-25 works very well in long bbled 300 H&Hs (26"). I'm using 78 gr with the 168 TSX and it chronys at 3090 and will keep 5 in less than 1". It also shoots MOA or less to 300. This is in a 1951 or 2 Remington 721 AC with a TIGHT chamber (no other fired case from my other 4 300 H&Hs will fit in it) with a BalVar 5 in Leupold Adjusto Mounts.(A 1950-60s hot outfit!). All I ever used for decades was 4831 but RL 25 gets the same fps with no pressure signs so I'm converted. (I have also tried H1000, WMR, H870 and 4350 in the past)
With the TSX's shape, and a factory leade, the normal max 300 H&H OAL gives you the setback you must have off the lands to get Barnes to really shoot. I just bought a box of the new 180 MRXs (ouch $) and am anxious to try them. A little trick that I have used with 300 H&Hs to test loads that always seems to work, is to load 5 with the same load with Hornady A Maxs of the close/same weight as the desired Barnes hunting bullet. Strange but true, if the A Maxs shoot so will the hunting bullet. It also worked in my new 260 DMPS LR with the A Maxs (140s) making 1 hole and the 130 TSXs doing 3/4". I have not tried it with other brand hunting bullets so I cannot speak to it being generally true.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/19/2007 at 19:47
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so how is that .240h&h treating you?

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/19/2007 at 21:35
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There is no 240 H&H in my safe. I suggest you purchase a copy of Cartridges of the World.
The 240 was a small actual 240 (not 6mm) caliber. What I'm building is a 244 H&H that is a true
6mm on a full length H&H Magnum. Early trials find the 85 barnes TSX stepping out at 3800 fps with 8" of penetration in ballistic gel. Lots of testing yet to do, but should make a serious Yote and Lope rig.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/21/2007 at 05:07
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8shots,

Do you notice how, on your targets, the bullet holes are not perfectly concentric?  This could indicate bullet yaw.  Your first target shows the worst group and the worst yaw.  A stable bullet should print a neat dark ring with the rifling pattern evenly visible and a central concentric hole.  Tears in the paper on the edge of the hole are not good at all.  You will also notice that the holes in the black inked square have a much larger central hole.  That's due to the ink making the paper brittle, but sometimes you can see the rifling marks in the ink edges and that too can show yaw.  My understanding is that RN bullets are more stable so a trial with those (which are cheaper) might show up something.  It could be just that you need to find a bullet with an ogive that your rifle's throat 'likes'.  They also say that flat-based bullets are more stable?  My mini-14 did not shoot well with boat-tails.  My hornet stabilises a 55gr flat base spire point but not a 55gr hollow point boat tail.  (Both bullets being the same length).



Edited by 303Guy
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/21/2007 at 06:04
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I think you are onto something here. I have noticed that some of the holes are larger then expected. I did put it down to the fact that the paper is not stuck properly (that is flat) to the backing board. I will take more note of this.

Another good friend has also suggested moving away from the boattails for the very reasons you state.

Again, I was stuck with a box of 100 Hornady Amax. I will have a closer look at this as well.

The 200gr Noslers are flat based.

Will let you know when I start working on them. Not in to much of a hurry though, as our hunting season only opens next year again.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/21/2007 at 09:20
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my reason for the twist question-- for fun, take a cleaning rod with brush on it push all the way thru, now make a small mark where it meets the receiver, pull the rod back until the mark has rotated 1 turn. make another mark on the top of rod and measure the distance.

the boat tail per se wont effect the yaw rate, but the increase of bearing surface will, as 303 suggests the flat base, which tend to be a shorter bullet, may be stable. It could very well be that the A max are not stable at this distance and are at 300 yds.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/21/2007 at 15:56
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A good point Dale.  The Mk VII 303 bullet was known for stabilizing down range.  The spire points have a very long bearing surface and a good BC.  I have found a 50gr Sierra to be accurate in my hornet, but, it is a tight fit and takes less powder to achieve max pressure.  (I have been examining captured bullets).  It would probably be unwise to suggest oversize bullets in a 300 - if they are even available.  Although, if a 8mm bullet can be fired through a 30-06 with lower pressure?  It must be that initial jump in the modified throat that brings the pressure down.

 

Just out of interest - I have said before that I have been experimenting with paper sabot bullet seating.  I found that (after quite a few variations on the theme) a single ply of soft hand towel, cut into a four petal shape and folded into the case mouth then dipped in molten bullet lube, then the bullet seated, produces a very even bullet entry into the lands with no sign of the cup impressing on the bullet.  This is in an unsized case.  The bullet is held very firm - OK for the hornet.  The barrel remains squeaky clean and after several weeks of damp weather, there has been no bore rust!  (Daily monitoring, of course).  And no visible copper fouling.  (I have been lubing the bullets for some time - lubing the cup is new).  What may be of interest is that with this technique, even boat tails enter the bore evenly - which they did not before.  I have not re-range tested the boat tails - they flew sideways at 10m  the last time. 

I am not recommending any of this, just talking about it.

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