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Will you pay $$$ for a missed shot?

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Poll Question: Are you prepared tp pay for a missed shot?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/04/2013 at 05:33
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Within the hunting outfitters and landowners a new area of extracting money from the hunter is becoming more and more common place. This is to charge the hunter for a missed shot.
 
Generally a small fee of around $5 to $10 is levied, but some farmers make it as much as 10% of the value of the animal.
 
Generally a hunter pays the farmer for the animal shot, whether wounded and lost, or cleanly shot and recovered. So if you draw blood, or any other positive signs of a hit, you pay the farmer.
 
Over and above that you pay a day fee for hunting on the farm, night acc and skinner fees. Some charge extra for firewood used, cleaning staff vehicles etc etc.
 
Now the rationale behind the farmers wanting to be paid for a missed shot is:
1 They cannot be sure the shot was missed and they on occasion loose out when such a "missed" animal dies.
2 They want to prevent hunters from taking risky shots or generally blasting away.
 
My view on this matter is that I will not hunt on such farms. In my opinion the farmer is taking my money for no services rendered, other then using his air space. A miss is a miss.
The fear of wounding an animal and having to pay for no meat to show is enough incentive for a hunter to be careful about taking risky shots.
I do not need to be "punished" for being a bad boy having spoiled a shot.
 
I have posed this question on one of our local websites, but so far only 3 hunters have responded.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/04/2013 at 10:33
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Have to agree with you Wouter things are geting out of hand, there is a well known farm near Musina that charges you 50% of the price of an animal for a miss shot. That can be some serious $$$$ in the case of an Eland or especially a Kudu, where they want to charge you by inch on the horn. Where I hunt a miss is a miss as long as there is no sign of blood, although if you have 3 clean miss shots in a row the owner will stop you hunting.   
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/04/2013 at 10:46
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One consideration, as explained by my PH last year hunting in South Africa: many "hunters" arrive to camp with a rifle they have never shot, not knowing the first thing about hunting, ethical or otherwise.

Assuming the outfitter doesn't do his job, I would definitely see value (as the farmer) in NOT wanting those hunters on my land.  I know a land owner who guides hunt on a ranch in South Texas who has had hunters kill trophies and get them off the land ASAP to avoid paying for what they took.  This particular land owner is an idiot and his lack of engagement in the process is the cause of his problems.

In the end, would I pay to hunt such a farm: no.  Would I condemn the farmer for asking that the policy be "pay to shoot": no.  If the farmer had something I wanted and a deal could be struck, I'd hunt his farm.  If the rule were hard and fast, I would hunt elsewhere.

Keep in mind that many aren't as accomplished - or as honest - as some of us claim to be.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/04/2013 at 11:50
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As I understand it, there are three types of places to hunt in RSA:
1. National Parks (Kruger/Pilansberg)
2. Reserves - places where scientific research is conducted but hunting is allowed by exemption 
3. Farms - usually family owned places where hunting is also allowed by use of exemptions issued by Nature and Conservation.

On my hunt two weeks ago, I signed paperwork at a Reserve (Mankwe Game Reserve) which stated that a fee of R50 (about $6.25) would be assessed for every shot fired that did not hit an animal.  

On the second day of the hunt, my father wounded a Kudu.  After 8 grueling hours of searching for the animal, we found it very much alive and capable of hauling ass.  The PH fired a very hurried shot and hit the animal in the abdomen.  (Please note that Kudu do not stick around.  I was VERY HAPPY he just put another round in the animal.)  As the Kudu then ran, I fired two more shots at the running Kudu that did not hit him.  We found the animal 100 yards away - dead in the brush.

Despite having signed a document stating that I would be charged for those missed shots, I was never asked to pay the fee.  Given that we would have had to pay for the injured Kudu, I was more than happy to pay $12.50 for the chance of putting the animal on the ground.

I have never hunted a Park (although Mankwe is very close to Pilansberg).

I have hunted on about a dozen farms and have never been asked to pay a fee for missed shots.

Finally, I will add that I observed SIGNIFICANT differences between trophy hunters in SA and meat hunters.  I don't even know how to be polite in commenting on some of the absolute asshole idiots I saw boozed up in trucks trying head shots at 300 yards on a Blesbok.  In my opinion, those folks deserve every charge on their bill.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/04/2013 at 12:00
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I was in the NW Province of SA a couple of weeks ago myself.  We hunted one 10,000 acre farm where they posted a missed shot fee of $10.00 IIRC, and an additional fee of $50 if shot was taken from a truck.  Now I had no intention of shooting from the truck, but I asked the game manager about these fees.  He said those fees were enacted and enforced only on the majority of local hunters, who had a tendency to be "several notches below the typical international hunter", in his words.  I guide some hunts here in TX, and would never consider letting a guy on our properties without myself or one of the other guides being with them personally.  We never charge for missed shots, but one nitiwt was asked by the landowner to leave the ranch because he was somewhat dangerous.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/05/2013 at 01:30
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Some very interesting comments. Sad to see that our hunters do not have a good image.
 
I of course try to behave and I do not act like an ass.
 
For this reason I will not allow a farmer to classify me as one and  therefore penalise me for other peoples behavior.
 
By the way,,,there is NO hunting permitted in the Kruger Park. Not that it stops our Mocambique friends.
 
Also, what may not be clear, no hunter is permitted to hunt unless accompanied by a staff member of the owner. Therefore each shot is checked by them and it can be verified whether a hit or miss. So honesty does not come into the picture. Each shot is fully accounted for by the owner or his staff, mostly to check on wounding so that the farmer can levy a full price.
 
And do they check !!! You can loose an hour of hunting after each shot.


Edited by 8shots - June/05/2013 at 01:38
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/05/2013 at 14:51
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There is something about this missed shot fee that makes some sense to me even though I dont like it.  It does encourage someone to make sure where their rifle is shooting and it does provide some penalty when the guide has done his job and put you in front of an animal and  you miss, might be more effective if you hit them with a stick each time they missPoker.  If the fee is in that $5 to $10 range and I was spending airfare plus all the other costs of going to Africa to hunt another five or ten isnt a deal breaker. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/05/2013 at 22:45
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The more I think about it the more I think that if a guy misses he ought to have to buy the guide a six pack of beer. Cool  but then you would run the risk that the guide would goose him just as he shoots.Cheers
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/06/2013 at 03:20
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Optics Jedi Knight
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Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

The more I think about it the more I think that if a guy misses he ought to have to buy the guide a six pack of beer. Cool  but then you would run the risk that the guide would goose him just as he shoots.Cheers
 
The part that gets me upset is not the six pack of beers, but the farmer gleefully rubbing his hands, ready to count the money. Most of those guys wanting money for missed shots are miserable scrooges. They see one as a nuisance that has to be tolerated.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/06/2013 at 06:55
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Most owners we encountered are really good folks.  I mean top notch.

As a general rule, outfitters seem to steer clear of the jerk owners.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/06/2013 at 20:03
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I friend of mine owns the local gunshop (really good friend to have) and I help him out on friday and saturday and in the week sometimes if he needs me. I can't even remember how mant times a guy will coming running in at opening time, shouting give me one packet of ammo for said caliber I'm off hunting. When you ask him with what ammo he sighted in with, he normally tells you he hasn't done so. So any ammo will do as long as it is cheap. When you ask when he will sight in ,The general answer is I will do it on the farm.

I'm not a land owner but if I was I would not want a guy firing 10 or 15 shots just trying to sight his rifle in. Secondly in the case of long range shots he will have no idea of his rifle and ammo's trajectory. So I understand why the land owner wants to charge for missed shots. $5 is reasonable I think but I also think the land owner can be resonable, him and his trackers (guides) can see the type of person the are dealing with. Is the client a chancer or not, is he a reasanoble shot and did he practice before he came to the farm. Did you maybe hit a branch just before the animal ect

I believe that you owe it to the animal to make as clean a shot as possible, so I will probably shoot between 100 and 200 shots. At varying distances and in field shooting positions just on life size animal targets before I go hunting, by the time I go hunting I will probably fired about 500 rounds in total

I have had very few misses (touch wood) but even with practice in the heat of the moment you can miss. Most of my misses seem to be the very close snap shots with little to no dead rest (its a joke with friends) I need to practice them more.

Edited by Glock - June/06/2013 at 20:11
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/07/2013 at 00:56
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Glock, your point above is my point, but the other way round.
 
I have hunted enough, practised enough and behaved enough to decide for myself that I need not pay for a missed shot. When I miss it is due to a genuine error and not due to gung-ho attitude.
 
And for that I am not prepared to pay a penalty. So I choose to hunt only on farms were the farmer agrees on my request.
 
On my last invitation I phoned the farmer beforehand. The gruff manner in which he answered the phone told me he was an a-hole. Sure enough he was not prepared to waiver the R300 nper missed shot.
 
I did not go.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/07/2013 at 13:09
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I feel the same Wouter, like I said i practice quite a lot before I go hunting, I dont drink and hunt or have a gung ho attitude. So dont feel the need to pay for missed shots either, but I do understand what the land owners are worried about. Espescially with the attitude of some I wont call them hunters rather shooters of animals. We have been going to the same farm for years, and have become spoilt there. 3 missed shots in a row and you stop hunting, I think that's quite resonable.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/07/2013 at 15:58
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If the owner is so concerned about irritating wildlife with errant shots, he also has the option of making his place archery only. I know of many farms that have made this choice.

Of course, bow hunters miss as well...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/07/2013 at 16:47
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My dad told me about an Elk hunt in Colorado years ago and there was some guy there with a new rifle that had only been bore sighted by the gun shop he bought it from.

He was adamant it was good to go and refused my dad's offer to really sight it in.

Still find that story shocking but there are idiots everywhere.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/08/2013 at 15:20
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Its our job to educate them.  There was a time when I was six yrs old that I just couldnt figure out why my scope on my 30-06 would not adjust even though I was turning the things on the top and side----  (covered turret scope caps).  Yep we all started without much of this useful info.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/08/2013 at 21:48
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Originally posted by ccoker ccoker wrote:

My dad told me about an Elk hunt in Colorado years ago and there was some guy there with a new rifle that had only been bore sighted by the gun shop he bought it from.

He was adamant it was good to go and refused my dad's offer to really sight it in.

Still find that story shocking but there are idiots everywhere.


There sure are.  We had an aoudad hunter show up one late one evening.  The next morning he said he needed a little help sighting in his rifle.  We said fine, as we normally shoot first thing anyway to make sure of zero.  He had a new Weatherby in one hand, and a new Swaro scope in the other.........
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/08/2013 at 21:58
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Wow

I know I am anal but damned!
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