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Why so many Ziess 3-9x40 on sample list?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2007 at 20:50
smitty View Drop Down
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I noticed there are very many refurbished Conquest 3-9x40 scopes on the sample list...anybody know the reason for so many of the same model? 

 

Smitty

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2007 at 21:08
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Buckmasters too.  I always wonder what gives when I see this

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2007 at 21:52
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traded in for a monarch and dm/v's would be my guess.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2007 at 13:17
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Yea, but there are alot of refurbished scopes.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2007 at 16:07
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A lot of Zeiss and Nikon refurbs .....could be simple. Nikon and Zeiss are two of the big dogs. More volume in sales, more opportunity for error and refurbs. Most likely does not reflect on these companies quality.

Or, perhaps SWFA has a deal with Zeiss/Nikon to sell their refurbs? I know that (competitor) has always had refurbs of various brands at one time or another.


I wouldn't sweat it at all.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2007 at 16:45
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Originally posted by Black Squirrel Black Squirrel wrote:

A lot of Zeiss and Nikon refurbs .....could be simple. Nikon and Zeiss are two of the big dogs. More volume in sales, more opportunity for error and refurbs. Most likely does not reflect on these companies quality.

Or, perhaps SWFA has a deal with Zeiss/Nikon to sell their refurbs? I know that (competitor) has always had refurbs of various brands at one time or another.


I wouldn't sweat it at all.

That is a good thought, except that while I believe Nikon is a big player, I do not think Zeiss is, at least where I hunt.  If I had to guess the percentage of total sales of rifle scopes in what I would call the good category, it would have to be less than 10 percent, when you consider Burris, Bushnell, Weaver, Nikon, Sightron, Super Sniper, Kahles and then some of the lower end scopes like Tasco etc.  Even, Nikon has way too many refurbished scopes on their list.  I would agree, the only way I would be convinced that this is a statistical anomaly, is that, SWFA has a contract to sell all of their refurbs.  But, I have seen refurbs, just for these 2 companies sold elsewhere.  Alot of trade-ins.  Not many Elite 4200s.  Probably, because it is one of the best scopes made regardless of price and do not break that often and people like them and do not trade them in that often.  And they are a big player. 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2007 at 19:43
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Originally posted by Dolphin Dolphin wrote:

Originally posted by Black Squirrel Black Squirrel wrote:

A lot of Zeiss and Nikon refurbs .....could be simple. Nikon and Zeiss are two of the big dogs. More volume in sales, more opportunity for error and refurbs. Most likely does not reflect on these companies quality.

Or, perhaps SWFA has a deal with Zeiss/Nikon to sell their refurbs? I know that (competitor) has always had refurbs of various brands at one time or another.


I wouldn't sweat it at all.

That is a good thought, except that while I believe Nikon is a big player, I do not think Zeiss is, at least where I hunt.  If I had to guess the percentage of total sales of rifle scopes in what I would call the good category, it would have to be less than 10 percent, when you consider Burris, Bushnell, Weaver, Nikon, Sightron, Super Sniper, Kahles and then some of the lower end scopes like Tasco etc.  Even, Nikon has way too many refurbished scopes on their list.  I would agree, the only way I would be convinced that this is a statistical anomaly, is that, SWFA has a contract to sell all of their refurbs.  But, I have seen refurbs, just for these 2 companies sold elsewhere.  Alot of trade-ins.  Not many Elite 4200s.  Probably, because it is one of the best scopes made regardless of price and do not break that often and people like them and do not trade them in that often.  And they are a big player. 

 

Here's something interesting to ponder...

 

If I said that Cabela's probably is in the top 10 nationwide for scope volume sold, I assume that you would agree.

 

WHAT if I told you that they sell MORE Zeiss Conquest scopes than their ENTIRE Leupold lineup combined...

 

Well, that statistic is true (feel free to call them).  This is NOT a slap on Leupold in any way, shape, or form.  All I'm saying is that there are a LOT of Zeiss Conquest scopes being sold in the USA. 

I have no clue if SWFA has a contract to sell all the warranty return Conquest scopes in the USA but I would imagine that they have some kind of agreement where they are getting Conquests from a repair facility.

 

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2007 at 20:03
Trinidad View Drop Down
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Ceylonc this has also been my observation in the field and at the range. Most of the new scopes bieng purchased by the locals here are Conquests mostly the 3-9 model, great scope for the price.



Edited by SVD666
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2007 at 00:17
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I seen quite a few leupolds on the SL including a slug of kahles and swaravski's so they must suck also. Except those luepolds they are always the best.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2007 at 00:58
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It would be interesting to see the results of actual side x side testing of the major scopes out there.  This is not done so most of the manufactures claims are unchallenged.

 

The only test I have read is the Nikon Monarch 3-9x40 vs. same in 4200 and same in VXIII.  It matched my experience with the three and it was nice to read an unbiased review.

 

I would love to see the Conquest 3-9x40 tested along with the other popular scopes.  Ihave no expreience with it so it would be nice to find out if it's genuinly better than say the Monarch.

 

My experience with optics is something like this...$100 to $150 quality is pretty much the same with few exceptions, next noticable improvement at about $300 price point and to get noticable improvement from there you need to be near $1000. 

 

Years ago when I was buying my binoculars, I decided on a B&L Discoverer 7x42 because I had a real hard time seeing a noticable improvement to the Leica to justify the additional $700.  Today the Discoverer is under Bushnell name and is still an amazing binoc for about $350.  To me this is the level were the Monach is as well as the Elite 4200.

 

The Conquest 3-9x40 are $500ish...are they $1000 glass but because the are assembled here in the US, are cheaper to buy or are they compariable with the Monarch but you pay more for the brand name?

 

Smitty

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2007 at 01:21
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Perhaps Zeiss has a higher flaw rate in their US assembly. I pulled my conquest out of the box and immidiatelly saw a glaring flaw. I called Zeiss and they said to send it to them so I did. Frankly I'm stunned it made it through quality control. We will see how they do in the customer service department compared to others. Conquest customer service seems to be the unknown factor in the X vs. Y argument so here comes a tie breaker. My guess is that they will replace it and it will end up as a refurb.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2007 at 03:24
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Originally posted by rtavernetti rtavernetti wrote:

Conquest customer service seems to be the unknown factor in the X vs. Y argument so here comes a tie breaker. My guess is that they will replace it and it will end up as a refurb.

 

Zeiss CS replaced a Conquest for me in less than 2 weeks.

10 days, if I remember correctly.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2007 at 07:01
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Regardless of whether it is repaired or replaced and then refubished, the point is, there was something wrong with the scope.  I am not saying the other manufactures do not have their problems and just repair the scopes sent to them and then send them back, I am just wondering why so many from a high end, high quality manufacturer such as Zeiss, as well as Nikon.  Ceylonc, has a point, but considering there are thousands of places that sells scopes, that do not even carry Zeiss, I still do not believe it is a big player in the overall picture.  Does anyone have any sales numbers of scopes, sold in the USA from years past?

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2007 at 09:59
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Different manufacturers have different names for anything that is not new, some call them Refurbished when actually they are not.  Instead of having some called, factory blem, some called salesman samples, discontinued, damaged packaging, etc.......they just call everything Refurbished.  Anything that is not 100% new gets put in the "refurb" pile.  When you look at the big picture of how many scopes are made, the refurbs we have on our SampleList site is not even a measurable percentage.  Another contributing factor to a large number of any brand on the SampleList is that the manufacturers wait until they have a large quantity before they sell them.  Also the end of the year and start of a new year always brings many items to the SampleList because reps are turning in their samples and all the manufacturers are cleaning out inventory.

 

According to Nikon themselves, the industry average for returns/warranty of riflescopes is 5%...........Nikon's rate is .6%.  I am sure however that "their" industry average includes BSA, tasco, Barska,  Leatherwood, etc. so its hard to know how good that number is until we know what Leupold's number is.

 

On another note, Leupold is hyper sensative about "refurbs" because of exactely what has been discussed in this thread.  They don't want people to see a big pile of them somewhere and think Leupold has a problem, so they don't sell them.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2007 at 10:22
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Chris,

 

Thanks for your imput on this thread!  Now we're talking facts as opposed to educated guessing.

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2007 at 10:26
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That is interesting.  I have been told by a factory rep. for consumer electronics, that when things are not selling as they would like, they frequently will sell to big catalog dealers, who will sell them as refurbs. at a discount, but are brand new in the box.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2007 at 10:55
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Thank you Chris for the info.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2007 at 11:16
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Originally posted by Dolphin Dolphin wrote:

That is interesting.  I have been told by a factory rep. for consumer electronics, that when things are not selling as they would like, they frequently will sell to big catalog dealers, who will sell them as refurbs. at a discount, but are brand new in the box.

 

I have to be careful here.......but theoretically......... I could see a manufacturer that is overstocked or needs to make a sales number for a particular sales period, turning new goods in to refurbs.  They would have to do it as quietly as possible as not to disrupt retail sales or upset dealers.  If they could find a single location, low key, obscure outlet it would be a win/win for everyone, including consumers.  But that technique is probably only used with products that have a short shelf life, like consumer electronics.

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