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Why does everyone Hate on Leupold?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2008 at 10:50
nitis View Drop Down
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It seems as though it never fails as soon as someone mentions a leupold product on here it gets beat like a red headed step child.  Why is it that there is so much hatred towrds leupold on this forum?
 
Myself I have never really known anything differentI have 4 leupolds a weaver a nikon and a cheapo pine ridge.
 
Now speak realistically for the average hunter what will he really miss out on with the alleged better glass of say a conquest or monarch?
 
And which other manufacturer out there offers the customer support that leupold does?
 
For instance I have 2  vari x 3s that are about 20 yrs old maybe 15 but anyway I am going to send them in this winter to have some work done.  They are getting new reticles and elevation turrets and when I finally settle on a rifle and load for each I can order up the custom turret knobs for bdc.  Who else offers that?  No one I have found.
 
Now correct me if I am wrond but of the major scope manufacureres build their product stateside?  I think Burris might on their high end stuff but I could be wrong.  As far as I know all lupolds are built here (again feel free to correct me if I am wrong) and in todays economy how important is that?
 
I guess what I am getting at is as long as there are americans building Leupolds and they continue to offer the custom features that they do I see no reason to look anywhere else for glass.  And until someone offers those options and perks why would I want to do so?
 
Thanks for listening to my rant again I am open to constructive criticisim as I know there are some very knowledgeable people here.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2008 at 11:00
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Nothing is wrong with Leupold scopes themselves.  We just have a hard time paying a considerable amount of money sometimes twice as much for a Leupold when we can get a Bushnell, Nikon, Conquest or others which are as good mechanically and most are better optically for less money.  People are buying Leupold because that is what grandpa and dad bought and that is all they know.  Fact is there are other options out there as well.  Half my problem is the blind loyalty some people have.  It just kills me how some people act about Leupold and are certain nothing is better but have never and will not even consider trying something else.  It is comical to me.

Look at what has happened to the american car industry.  Other makers started offering better products at cheaper prices and now they are failing.  And want the tax payers to bail their greedy asses out.  But that is another rant all together.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2008 at 11:04
nitis View Drop Down
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I dont think one could argue that dollar for dollar in the 3x9 market you can probably do better with something like a team primos or elit 4200 but out side the 3x9 everyones prices are high.
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Take a deeeep breath man. I don't think anyone here "HATES" Leupold.I think you will find that everyone likes leupold and agrees that it is a GOOD scope.  The main issue seems to be that for right around the same amount of money, sometimes alittle less, you can get a quality German or Austrian even Jap made scope with superior optics capability. I used to be an exclusive Leupold guy, until I bought my first Zeiss Conquest. I found it to be a far superior product for $79.99 less than the comparible Leupold.  Leupold has a great reputation for being a tough little scope and for having an above the norm customer service department. I've used this analogy before, Leupold reminds me alot of the Bose stereo company. Bose puts out a really good product, not THE  BEST but really good. then they spend countless amounts of money in marketing department, flooding the airways, magazines, billboards, etc.. telling the world how great they are and that they are THE BEST until the marketing monster has everyone convinced that Bose is the best and soon that marketing strategy is perpetuated and the "worlds greatest" frenzy cannont be stopped. Americans love marketing. Did i mention that Bose products are also over-priced for what you get? Leupold does the same thing with their marketing practices, pick up any hunting/shooting magazine and see for yourself.   No hate here, just a very mild dislike, kinda like that annoying used-car salesman or pyramid-scheme marketer that everyone has in their family.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2008 at 11:23
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Not as high as Leupold is in most cases though.  Right now the VX3 prices are pretty good with the introduction of their new line, but typically you will pay $50 to $100+ more for a comparable scope and the Leupold will almost certainly have inferior glass quality. 

And then you have the MK4 line which are ridiculous for what you are getting optically compared to the competition.  Comparing a 3.5-10x Leupold to an IOR 2.5-10x is night and day difference in optical quality.  It literally shocks me every time I look through a MK4 after using one of my IORs. 

Again nothing is wrong with Leupold as far as the product itself goes, it is just the cost.  Bang for buck is just not there, and it is hard for me to justify wanting one when I can get something better for equal or less cost. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2008 at 11:35
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Leupold is very competitive in one area:  Lightweight compact scopes.  If "smallest size" and "lowest weight" are your only criteria, then you will be hard pressed to find it in the so called "superior glass" scopes.  Whatever the uber glass makers combination of materials and mechanicals, they weigh more and are larger).
 
Made in the USA does not seem to count for much.  I rarely hear it mentioned, and even then, it devolves to where are the source manufactures for parts and lenses.  Safely, I will say Earth, I am pretty sure they are made on Earth, although I think TASCO's are probably outsourced from Uranus.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2008 at 11:44
nitis View Drop Down
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Ok I guess I should have mentioned I am speaking from a hunter perspective so the mk 4 are not in the equation.  but am I right in that noone has the custom features available that Leupold does.
 
aNd I know that lots of the somponents are outsorced but they are still built here and that does account for soemone getting a paycheck.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2008 at 11:47
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Respect is earned!  It takes more than being made here, to earn that respect.  Leupold offers everything but good glass.  That's like saying IF you can get the car to start, its great.  If you could get a car that cost less, gets better milage, needs less service, has more room, drives better and is every bit as reliable would you look at it?
 
I don't need a scope with razzleberry pink flames from the custom shop.  I want a scope that is like watching HD TV.  I don't need four hundred custom reticles, I want to be able to pick out  blades of grass after 400 yards. You can get it your way at Burger King, but that don't make it fine dining.  That's the differance in a nut shell.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2008 at 11:51
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noone has the custom features available that Leupold does
Combine they superior packaging, and it is safe to say they are at the top.  Some ping their fix or replace policy.  To me, a replace only warranty says the product is throw away in the first place, kind of like Big O tires, pay for two up front.
 
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that does account for soemone getting a paycheck.
Certainly it does.  But, that person is a citizen of earth, unless they work for TASCO Wink.  This is a forum visited from around the world.  I have rarely encountered 'America First' posting, even though it would be nice to think of helping out a local company, assuming they can provide what you want.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2008 at 11:52
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I don`t think that it is a matter of the hating of Leupold here on this forum as much. It is a matter of these "so called" Leupold "arrogant diehards," who are always trying to make their case that the entire scope world completely revolves around Leupold.
 
Simply put, for some of these diehards, there is never an alternative for further consideration. This imo, is what causes a certain distain among others, which can be viewed or portrayed as hatred.
 
It is also a matter of handed down tradition (via brainwashing or otherwise), from grand pappy, to pappy and then down to son or sons, daughter or daughters.
 
I myself, am a Leupold VX3 owner. But I am also a Nikon Monarch owner. I don`t drink the Leupold kool-aid as some of these diehards do! I also don`t interpret that Leupold gold ring as a wedding band, like some of the hard core Leupold diehards do!
 
Optically, there are better scopes out there for the same and less money. However! To give credit where credit is due, where the Leupolds really shine over all others, is in their entire product selection of scopes and asthetics, ie., their looks, better eye relief, lower scope weights, reticle choices, objective diameter choices, variable choices and in their customer service. 
 
The word "tradition" or the word "traditional" for me anyway, equates to more traditional values, morals, building and housing architecture, furniture and decorating styles, auto styling and so forth.
 
When it comes to scopes & especially "rifle cartridges?".....Squeezer!FarterTradition!   
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2008 at 11:56
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good glass
I think that is more about where and how you hunt.  If your distance from the tree stand to the ground is almost as far as your average shot AND you don't live in some local that lets you hunt under the stars, you may not notice the difference and likely won't benefit.
 
That is, if the longest shots you take is 1, 3 shot group at 100 yards at the range every year.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2008 at 12:01
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The glass issues I have experience are always right before it gets light or right before it is dark.  Like you say during the day it is not as big a deal, but it still makes a very large difference having good glass even during the day.  But really you won't see that in scopes in the price ranges we are talking about.

The better optics will give you that little big of extra time in the morning and evening and allows you to see your target better so you can make the best judgment before the shot.   
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2008 at 12:22
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

The glass issues I have experience are always right before it gets light or right before it is dark.  Like you say during the day it is not as big a deal, but it still makes a very large difference having good glass even during the day.  But really you won't see that in scopes in the price ranges we are talking about.

The better optics will give you that little big of extra time in the morning and evening and allows you to see your target better so you can make the best judgment before the shot.   
 
That's it for me. I still have a bunch of Leos but all my low light big game rifles are sporting Austrian glass these days.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2008 at 12:32
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Stay tuned nitis.  This bunch basically calls it like it is.  If the next generation of Leupolds close the gap, or pull ahead, you will hear about it here.  Hear here!
 
P.S.  Leupold eye relief is superior (OK, longer), especially when working with kids or the inexperienced who would do well to stay well back from the eyepiece.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2008 at 12:38
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Nothing looks better on a classic rifle than a Leupold. Looks aside though I feel the same about Leupold as I do Hardley Davidson. They each make a good product but their die hard followers look down in ignorance on anyone not owning one.  It's bragging material among the uninformed masses to say you have a Leupold.  Just this past weekend a guy looked through his scope and said he could read the numbers on a mailbox. He looked through my Zeiss and said he could still read 'em. Totally missed the point. As far as I know my Zeiss was made in America and is a better functioning scope for less money, but it's hea-vy and bulky. Not near the class of a Lupy but looks far better on my modern robo rifle. I'm about to scope a beautiful Browning BLR and it will most likely get a Leupold because it matches and certainly is no slouch.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2008 at 12:39
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But their eye relief is also very as variable as the scopes are, so that sometimes makes things hard.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2008 at 13:07
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2008 at 14:42
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the only rifle i think wears a leupold nicely is a kimber, otherwise. im not big on them anymore. i used to be, but then i decided to broaden my horizons and i dont feel guilty. leupold makes a nice scope i jsut wish they were more affodable. the vx1 should be comparable to a nikon prostaff (price wise) the vx should be in the buckmaster/ 3200 elite category and the vx3 should be in the monarch, 4200 conquest , and so on.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2008 at 14:46
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They are all good, at least the top end models but I think you are right on one point ,
not all people can see the difference. like others do .kinda like that!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2008 at 14:56
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Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

the only rifle i think wears a leupold nicely is a kimber, otherwise. im not big on them anymore. i used to be, but then i decided to broaden my horizons and i dont feel guilty. leupold makes a nice scope i jsut wish they were more affodable. the vx1 should be comparable to a nikon prostaff (price wise) the vx should be in the buckmaster/ 3200 elite category and the vx3 should be in the monarch, 4200 conquest , and so on.
..............Hey! That gold ring on an all black, all weather rifle, doesn`t look too bad either!..........Big GrinBig GrinBig Grin
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My peeve really has nothing to do with the company, it's employee's or the scopes themselves. It has to do with (some) the owners often looking down on others as if you are anti-American or unpatriotic if you don't own a Leupold. Some, also believe that these are far superior to anything past, present or unlikely future. I have even seen non-Leupold owners being cast as fool hardy, non-serious flat landers. That is what turns me off.
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Originally posted by nitis nitis wrote:

Now correct me if I am wrond but of the major scope manufacureres build their product stateside?  I think Burris might on their high end stuff but I could be wrong.  As far as I know all lupolds are built here (again feel free to correct me if I am wrong) and in todays economy how important is that?
 
I guess what I am getting at is as long as there are americans building Leupolds and they continue to offer the custom features that they do I see no reason to look anywhere else for glass.  And until someone offers those options and perks why would I want to do so?
 
 
The Zeiss Conquest (assembled in the US) is just as much "American made" as Leupold.  Leupold buys its lenses from Asia, by the way.
 
Leupold does indeed have an excellent warranty and customer service, and they are the reason their competitors have improved their warranties to in some cases match Leupold's warranty.  They also do offer more options than anyone else, if you need a niche scope or want some custom finish, reticle, etc. 
 
I have a few Leupold scopes, and I like them.  However, in comparison to their mid-priced competitors, they often don't represent the best cost vs. performance value.  I think in several respects they've become complacent, relying on their name and reputation for so long that their competition has caught up and in many cases, gained a technological edge on them, while still offering their products at the same or lower prices in the process.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2008 at 14:59
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Originally posted by Big Squeeze Big Squeeze wrote:

Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

the only rifle i think wears a leupold nicely is a kimber, otherwise. im not big on them anymore. i used to be, but then i decided to broaden my horizons and i dont feel guilty. leupold makes a nice scope i jsut wish they were more affodable. the vx1 should be comparable to a nikon prostaff (price wise) the vx should be in the buckmaster/ 3200 elite category and the vx3 should be in the monarch, 4200 conquest , and so on.
..............Hey! That gold ring on an all black, all weather rifle, doesn`t look too bad either!..........Big GrinBig GrinBig Grin
well squeeze i havent seen your rifle. i have a varixII-c silver 3x9x40 on my browning aboltII stainless syn. and it looks nice but there is something about that gold ring that sets the kimbers off.
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Not a hater of Leupold at all. I have had a couple would still have if not for thieves, I still do own one. I can tell you that for the cost of that 3-9X 50 VXIII a Bushnell, or Nikon Monarch will rub its nose in the perverbial wet spot. We call it like it is around here, nothing more, nothing less. Those that are always accusing us of HATE SPEACH directed at Leupold, generally are the ones that just don't want the truth, or can't handle the truth.
If and when Leupold starts to price competitively with the scopes that are as good and cost less then there can be an argument if the HATE SPEACH continues.
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i would buy cetain vx3's if they were more affordable, no doubt in my mind
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