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Why can I not import a Burris FFII riflescope?

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I have bought most of my riflescopes from the USA, this time I encountered a warning when purchasing a Burris FFII riflescope. " This item may be regulated for export by the U.S. Department of State or the U.S. Department of Commerce."

Can someone fill me in on why this scope is restricted and will all scopes soon be restricted for export? I had the impression only tactical scopes were on the banned list.
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It maybe due to the BDC reticle. As it might be considered as a "range compensating" device. But I am not for sure how that is written. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2012 at 16:38
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I was able to buy the Diamondback 4-12 with BDC recticle, mind you it hasn't cleared customs yet. I'm not sure that is the reason though, cheers
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That's pretty crazy! I find it hard to believe scopes cant be exported to other countries.  Jeez it's just a scope, not like we are talking about something dangerous!
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That must suk seeing all the good eye candy available over here and not being able to buy it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/27/2012 at 05:40
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Originally posted by Gappa Gappa wrote:

That must suk seeing all the good eye candy available over here and not being able to buy it.

It seems a bit rediculous. The Diamondback I've ordered didn't give the same export warning and it sounds like a really good scope for the dollar, I did want to try the Burris e1 though..

here is the notice I receive when trying to bid on the Burris:
Important

Thanks for choosing to bid on or buy this item. Before you do, please read this important information.

This item is regulated by Part 121 of the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR).

By bidding on or purchasing this item, you confirm that you're buying this item for your own use, that you're a U.S. citizen or permanent resident of the U.S., and that you won't export this item outside of the U.S. .



I also found this:

Some military items and information (such as body armor, firearm scopes, head gear, technical manuals, and night vision goggles) listed in the ITAR Part 121 are OK to sell, but only if all of the following conditions are met:

  • The item is listed on the US eBay website (eBay.com).

  • The buyer, the seller, and the item are located in the US

  • The seller specifically states the item will only be shipped domestically (within the US).

Note: You must be a US citizen or permanent resident of the US to bid on or buy these types of items. These items can only be bid on or bought if the buyer intends to use the item for personal use only and has no intention of exporting the item outside of the US.



Does this mean they class this scope as a military item?? I find it a bit confusing and could not find the 'specs' that would classify a scope as a military scope.

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Sir Hoppalot, I live and South Africa and have experienced similar problems. I also got advice from some very friendly optics Masters on this site.  The problem is with mildot, military type scopes, not hunting scopes. This is what I did.
 
1. I have a sister living in Tallahassee, Florida. Everything I purchase, gets delivered to her doorstep. Very often for free.
 
2.  She then makes up a parcel called "gift" with contents labeled  "optical equipment"
 
3.  It takes 2 months and its here. I have a 100% success rate.  US postal services are VERY efficient.  The South African postal services are pathetic! The big risk is once it is in SA. With New Zealand that should not be a problem
 
The first scope I bought was to test the system and it was a cheapy, Pentax Gameseeker. Then a Sightron S2 Bigsky and finally 4 Leopolds (VX3). Currently I am waiting for "prescision metal parts" aka Nosler 260gr accubonds!!Big Grin
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/04/2012 at 09:00
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Originally posted by Dirtyoldsix Dirtyoldsix wrote:

Sir Hoppalot, I live and South Africa and have experienced similar problems. I also got advice from some very friendly optics Masters on this site.  The problem is with mildot, military type scopes, not hunting scopes. This is what I did.
 
1. I have a sister living in Tallahassee, Florida. Everything I purchase, gets delivered to her doorstep. Very often for free.
 
2.  She then makes up a parcel called "gift" with contents labeled  "optical equipment"
 
3.  It takes 2 months and its here. I have a 100% success rate.  US postal services are VERY efficient.  The South African postal services are pathetic! The big risk is once it is in SA. With New Zealand that should not be a problem
 
The first scope I bought was to test the system and it was a cheapy, Pentax Gameseeker. Then a Sightron S2 Bigsky and finally 4 Leopolds (VX3). Currently I am waiting for "prescision metal parts" aka Nosler 260gr accubonds!!Big Grin
Really? You are bragging about breaking U.S. Law, on a U.S. forum...And dropping a dime on your sister too...Interesting!
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Bragging? Are you a schizophrenic paranoid?
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Originally posted by Dirtyoldsix Dirtyoldsix wrote:

Sir Hoppalot, I live and South Africa and have experienced similar problems. I also got advice from some very friendly optics Masters on this site.  The problem is with mildot, military type scopes, not hunting scopes. This is what I did.
 
1. I have a sister living in Tallahassee, Florida. Everything I purchase, gets delivered to her doorstep. Very often for free.
 
2.  She then makes up a parcel called "gift" with contents labeled  "optical equipment"
 
3.  It takes 2 months and its here. I have a 100% success rate.  US postal services are VERY efficient.  The South African postal services are pathetic! The big risk is once it is in SA. With New Zealand that should not be a problem
 
The first scope I bought was to test the system and it was a cheapy, Pentax Gameseeker. Then a Sightron S2 Bigsky and finally 4 Leopolds (VX3). Currently I am waiting for "prescision metal parts" aka Nosler 260gr accubonds!!Big Grin

We have these laws for a reason... actually more than one reason.  It is unfortunate, but it IS the world we live in.  Though our governments often betray us and deceive us, create hypocrisies  that are outrageous, there is some reason behind the laws preventing the shipment of some optics/armaments overseas.  We do not, generally (though some among us are different) want to arm our adversaries with equipments that are equivalent, or in some cases better, than what our own military and police organizations have ready access to, and we do not wish to provide them with the means to exploit our technologies and advance their own on the backs of our citizens monetary investments.  1) it is bad security/self defense, 2) it is BAD investment.  
You have blatantly stated a disregard for the laws of my country and a flippancy toward international laws and agreements... simply because there is something YOU want.  Your sister is also a criminal.  Regardless of what you think of the laws you and she are violating, you ARE criminals... federal criminals and international criminals.  What if your order gets into the hands of some other criminal, who would otherwise not have access to higher quality optics, and that criminal then assassinates some government leader... or just kills some innocent man, woman or child?  Who is at fault?  Perhaps you don't care, because you were just getting what you wanted.  Because it has not happened yet, to you, does not mean it won't.  You are are a criminal who has now provided criminal information on how to "defeat the system(laws)" to a large number of potential criminals and adversaries.  Some may have figured it out, some may not, but you have given direct information that is actionable.  In OUR country, when we have a problem with existing laws, we work to change them... not violate them for personal gratification.  One of the many things that sets us apart from the rest of the world... a separation I proudly acknowledge, proudly accept, proudly intend to promulgate.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/04/2012 at 11:08
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Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

Originally posted by Dirtyoldsix Dirtyoldsix wrote:

Sir Hoppalot, I live and South Africa and have experienced similar problems. I also got advice from some very friendly optics Masters on this site.  The problem is with mildot, military type scopes, not hunting scopes. This is what I did.
 
1. I have a sister living in Tallahassee, Florida. Everything I purchase, gets delivered to her doorstep. Very often for free.
 
2.  She then makes up a parcel called "gift" with contents labeled  "optical equipment"
 
3.  It takes 2 months and its here. I have a 100% success rate.  US postal services are VERY efficient.  The South African postal services are pathetic! The big risk is once it is in SA. With New Zealand that should not be a problem
 
The first scope I bought was to test the system and it was a cheapy, Pentax Gameseeker. Then a Sightron S2 Bigsky and finally 4 Leopolds (VX3). Currently I am waiting for "prescision metal parts" aka Nosler 260gr accubonds!!Big Grin

 

We have these laws for a reason... actually more than one reason.  It is unfortunate, but it IS the world we live in.  Though our governments often betray us and deceive us, create hypocrisies  that are outrageous, there is some reason behind the laws preventing the shipment of some optics/armaments overseas.  We do not, generally (though some among us are different) want to arm our adversaries with equipments that are equivalent, or in some cases better, than what our own military and police organizations have ready access to, and we do not wish to provide them with the means to exploit our technologies and advance their own on the backs of our citizens monetary investments.  1) it is bad security/self defense, 2) it is BAD investment.  
You have blatantly stated a disregard for the laws of my country and a flippancy toward international laws and agreements... simply because there is something YOU want.  Your sister is also a criminal.  Regardless of what you think of the laws you and she are violating, you ARE criminals... federal criminals and international criminals.  What if your order gets into the hands of some other criminal, who would otherwise not have access to higher quality optics, and that criminal then assassinates some government leader... or just kills some innocent man, woman or child?  Who is at fault?  Perhaps you don't care, because you were just getting what you wanted.  Because it has not happened yet, to you, does not mean it won't.  You are are a criminal who has now provided criminal information on how to "defeat the system(laws)" to a large number of potential criminals and adversaries.  Some may have figured it out, some may not, but you have given direct information that is actionable.  In OUR country, when we have a problem with existing laws, we work to change them... not violate them for personal gratification.  One of the many things that sets us apart from the rest of the world... a separation I proudly acknowledge, proudly accept, proudly intend to promulgate.  
         That was much more eloquent than me telling him to <you should know better than this>!


Edited by koshkin - July/09/2012 at 10:25
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/05/2012 at 03:44
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Kia Ora Sir Hoppalot,

The same ITAR-message pops up from time to time when we order scopes from Sweden as well.
Some of the bigger scope retailers on the internet seems to have "by-passed the law" temporarely, maybe by having a carte-blanche with the government regarding hunting scopes ???
 
 My friends have ordered scopes from the same vendors with different messages attached, sometimes it´s OK to export, sometimes not.
 
It´s of course debatable if a hunting scope should fall into a no-no-cathegory for export, I believe that the "better-safe-than-sorry" attitude applied at first, now there´s a more reasonable attitude to the export of those scopes.
 
My advice is to shop around, you will most ceartainly find a vendor that will sell you a hunting scope either directly, or with a delay pending some paper-work with the government.
 
Gerry Atric
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/05/2012 at 07:08
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As someone who has worked with ITAR regulations for a previous employer I can offer the following comments.  In order to legally export an ITAR controlled item you need to obtain an export license from the State Department.  My guess is SWFA doesn't want to be responsible for export compliance and I don't blame them.  The process can take from weeks to months and your license application can be rejected without comment.  Fines for violations can be in the millions of dollars and include prison time for the individuals involved.

In addition to State Department controls, the Department of Commerce also controls these items and the two agencies don't always agree though State is the final arbiter for ITAR.  The Department of Commerce has levied fines against Ruger, Thompson Center and Trijicon for exporting scopes without a license from them.  Google "ITAR Don't let thiis Happen to You" and you can read the fines for yourself.  As someone who's worked in this area trying to do this without a license isn't worth the risk. No amount of savings is going to make up for jail time.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/05/2012 at 12:46
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This is clearly a a delicate problem. Below is a mail that a friend recieved 2011-09-28
 
Hello ZZZ,
Thank you for your response.

All riflescopes are classified ECCN: 0A987, unless, otherwise classified as ITAR.

In this link you will find the 0A987 Reason for Control are: FC1, CC1, and UN restricted countries: Iraq, North Korea, and Rwanda.

http://www.uptodateregs.com/_eccn/ECCN.asp?ECCN=0A987

Here you can scroll down to Sweden and see that it has an X under CC1 thus requiring an export license to export to Sweden.

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/te ... 24&idno=15

Due to XXXXX  knowledge of intent to export your order to Sweden we have cancelled your order.

Due to the U.S. Government Export Control Laws and Regulations, U.S. Companies are not allowed to ship or assist with the shipment the restricted items in your order outside of the physical territory of the United States to Sweden without proper licensing. We apologize, but at this time we are not able to apply for the required licenses. Therefore, we are forced to cancel your order and your PayPal was not charged for the items.

If you would to like to attempt to acquire the necessary license required to export the restricted items in your order to Sweden please contact the Office of Export Services at (949) 660-0144, (202) 482-4011, or http://www.census.gov/trade

US companies are unable to assist with the purchase, sale, or export of any regulated items that fall under the Export Administration Regulations (EAR) or the International Trade and Arms Regulation (ITAR). Additionally we will not sell any regulated items to domestic customers who intend to export these items.

We apologize for any inconvenience. This is a standard procedure we follow to prevent illegal purchase, sale, or export of restricted items. This process is necessary because the consequences of illegally exporting or assisting with the illegal export of a restricted item can be very severe, including civil and criminal penalties.

 
Another respond to a purchase (2012-04-04)
No paperwork is required to ship to Sweden any more.

Thanks,

XXX & YYY
 
The above e-mails are from two optics vendors in US frequently used by swedes, one is negative the other positive to an export of a rifle scope to Sweden. There is a time-span between the e-mails and a lot of things may have happened in government policy.
 
Gerry Atric
 
 
 
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/05/2012 at 13:56
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Sweden is no longer on the Firearms Control list, but is on two sections of the Crime Control list.  Still requires an export license/approval under 0A987 Optical sighting devices for firearms. Of course, the case law is not clear on exactly what that means... BECAUSE...
In 2011 the Secretary of Commerce put Sweden and several other countries on a list of "acceptable" export countries, which is when I believe the removal from FA took place.  Shipment of some scopes may be acceptable as long as you can GUARANTEE the end user will not resell it and will not allow it to be used for unlawful purposes.   That is a pretty heavy guarantee... 
  There is some indication that there are lesser controls for "non-military" hunting scopes.   However, the rules are unclear and arbitrarily enforced.  Defining what is truly a "hunting" scope vs military is not well defined and "dual use" is even less clear.  When in doubt, get an export license... or don't ship overseas.  Many companies choose, rightfully, to NOT go through the pain and hassle of getting an export license and therefore export nothing on any of the lists to other countries.  
Some companies, believing they were in compliance with the laws, undertook shipment to foreign countries on the "acceptable" list.  Several of them are now paying exorbitant fines, some people have gone to jail and/or are still fighting in court.  It is a place where Congress COULD really do something if there were anyone smart enough to put together a sensible, understandable, enforceable law in Congress.  
Trying to "get around" the export laws is unacceptable.  Too many bad things can happen.  No one wants to be broken financially or sent to prison for inadvertent or even known violation of such a law (thinking "I'm going to get me a great scope at a great price from the States" could lead to very severe penalties.  Is it worth it?  Could not possibly be.)
Who knows why some things get placed on the "bad" list.  Lobbyists, bureaucrat had a bad day, gun hater... who knows...
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Kickboxer,
 
As a normal foreigner (swede) you find a web-site selling scopes, you find a scope at maybe half the price it will cost in Sweden (including tax and freight).
1) You press the order button, the options of freights appear and you pay.......that´s all.
 
2) OR, the same as above, a message surfaces on the screen: Something......ITAR.....Something...sorry we can´t export.
 
3) OR, the same as above, a message surfaces on the screen: Something......ITAR.....Something...sorry we can´t export.
After a discussion via e-mail, the vendor says it´s OK to export.
 
I, of course would love a law that (first of all) identify which scopes that are OK to export and a simple system that give the scope vendor a possibility to see which scopes he´s able to sell to country XXX.
 
As a foreigner it´s a mess finding out which rules that apply, you will go with one of my options above, I´m not certain that any of the presented options 1 or 3 will save my ass in court, despite the fact that I´m "innocent"
 
Gerry Atric
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Originally posted by Dirtyoldsix Dirtyoldsix wrote:

Bragging? Are you a schizophrenic paranoid?
Not sure about the schizophrenic part, but I, for one, am kind of paranoid.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/07/2012 at 00:08
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Really? You are bragging about breaking U.S. Law, on a U.S. forum...And dropping a dime on your sister too...Interesting!
[/QUOTE]

Ya, that amazed me too.
There may be an episode about this in the world's most smartest criminal. Excellent
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Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

Originally posted by Dirtyoldsix Dirtyoldsix wrote:

Sir Hoppalot, I live and South Africa and have experienced similar problems. I also got advice from some very friendly optics Masters on this site.  The problem is with mildot, military type scopes, not hunting scopes. This is what I did.
 
1. I have a sister living in Tallahassee, Florida. Everything I purchase, gets delivered to her doorstep. Very often for free.
 
2.  She then makes up a parcel called "gift" with contents labeled  "optical equipment"
 
3.  It takes 2 months and its here. I have a 100% success rate.  US postal services are VERY efficient.  The South African postal services are pathetic! The big risk is once it is in SA. With New Zealand that should not be a problem
 
The first scope I bought was to test the system and it was a cheapy, Pentax Gameseeker. Then a Sightron S2 Bigsky and finally 4 Leopolds (VX3). Currently I am waiting for "prescision metal parts" aka Nosler 260gr accubonds!!Big Grin

We have these laws for a reason... actually more than one reason.  It is unfortunate, but it IS the world we live in.  Though our governments often betray us and deceive us, create hypocrisies  that are outrageous, there is some reason behind the laws preventing the shipment of some optics/armaments overseas.  We do not, generally (though some among us are different) want to arm our adversaries with equipments that are equivalent, or in some cases better, than what our own military and police organizations have ready access to, and we do not wish to provide them with the means to exploit our technologies and advance their own on the backs of our citizens monetary investments.  1) it is bad security/self defense, 2) it is BAD investment.  
You have blatantly stated a disregard for the laws of my country and a flippancy toward international laws and agreements... simply because there is something YOU want.  Your sister is also a criminal.  Regardless of what you think of the laws you and she are violating, you ARE criminals... federal criminals and international criminals.  What if your order gets into the hands of some other criminal, who would otherwise not have access to higher quality optics, and that criminal then assassinates some government leader... or just kills some innocent man, woman or child?  Who is at fault?  Perhaps you don't care, because you were just getting what you wanted.  Because it has not happened yet, to you, does not mean it won't.  You are are a criminal who has now provided criminal information on how to "defeat the system(laws)" to a large number of potential criminals and adversaries.  Some may have figured it out, some may not, but you have given direct information that is actionable.  In OUR country, when we have a problem with existing laws, we work to change them... not violate them for personal gratification.  One of the many things that sets us apart from the rest of the world... a separation I proudly acknowledge, proudly accept, proudly intend to promulgate.  


Kickboxer,
Even though we had our differences I acknowledge when wise words are spoken.
Very well said man!
Amen Excellent
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Originally posted by Gerry Atric Gerry Atric wrote:

Kickboxer,
 
As a normal foreigner (swede) you find a web-site selling scopes, you find a scope at maybe half the price it will cost in Sweden (including tax and freight).
1) You press the order button, the options of freights appear and you pay.......that´s all.
 
2) OR, the same as above, a message surfaces on the screen: Something......ITAR.....Something...sorry we can´t export.
 
3) OR, the same as above, a message surfaces on the screen: Something......ITAR.....Something...sorry we can´t export.
After a discussion via e-mail, the vendor says it´s OK to export.
 
I, of course would love a law that (first of all) identify which scopes that are OK to export and a simple system that give the scope vendor a possibility to see which scopes he´s able to sell to country XXX.
 
As a foreigner it´s a mess finding out which rules that apply, you will go with one of my options above, I´m not certain that any of the presented options 1 or 3 will save my ass in court, despite the fact that I´m "innocent"
 
Gerry Atric
Gerry, in these instances, you are talking about situations where an export license is already in place and the dealer has determined, through some magical means, that the item is OK to export.  Due to the arbitrary nature of our export laws, I would advise more caution *(have to deal with both US import/export laws and the laws of whichever country).  Once the grinding wheel of "justice" has begun (say some mistake in paperwork was made) it will be oppressively costly to overcome and may end up destroying a company or a number of lives.  I can cite cases where US companies thought they were in compliance and are paying millions in penalties and cases where people thought they were in compliance and went to jail... over a rifle scope (or quite a few rifle scopes...).  
It was only in 2011 that Sweden was taken from the FA "list", so things were more stringent, but the Criminal Codes lists are still in place.  It is a difficult and murky section of "law", often interpreted on the spot by some incompetent bureaucrat.  Once the wheels begin, they grind on and on, because bureaucrats never admit error.  Things go on and off the "forbidden list" without much notification.  Requires dedicated personnel to keep up with what is and is not allowed.  It is not, in many small businesses, financially feasible to maintain the day to day, minute to minute information.  How many countries' export information can one person maintain?  I don't know, but suspect it is only a few.  What kind of staff or legal team is required for such?  It is a "cost" to the company.  Small businesses sometimes operate on such margins that that additional cost would price them out of the market or significantly reduce their effectiveness.  It may be nice to do business internationally, but would the volume make up for the cost of the additional requirements tracking and improve the overall company profits?  And then, is it worth the risk of the one wrong time??? 
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<profanity removed>


Edited by koshkin - July/09/2012 at 10:24
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Dirtyoldsix View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

Originally posted by Dirtyoldsix Dirtyoldsix wrote:

Sir Hoppalot, I live and South Africa and have experienced similar problems. I also got advice from some very friendly optics Masters on this site.  The problem is with mildot, military type scopes, not hunting scopes. This is what I did.
 
1. I have a sister living in Tallahassee, Florida. Everything I purchase, gets delivered to her doorstep. Very often for free.
 
2.  She then makes up a parcel called "gift" with contents labeled  "optical equipment"
 
3.  It takes 2 months and its here. I have a 100% success rate.  US postal services are VERY efficient.  The South African postal services are pathetic! The big risk is once it is in SA. With New Zealand that should not be a problem
 
The first scope I bought was to test the system and it was a cheapy, Pentax Gameseeker. Then a Sightron S2 Bigsky and finally 4 Leopolds (VX3). Currently I am waiting for "prescision metal parts" aka Nosler 260gr accubonds!!Big Grin

We have these laws for a reason... actually more than one reason.  It is unfortunate, but it IS the world we live in.  Though our governments often betray us and deceive us, create hypocrisies  that are outrageous, there is some reason behind the laws preventing the shipment of some optics/armaments overseas.  We do not, generally (though some among us are different) want to arm our adversaries with equipments that are equivalent, or in some cases better, than what our own military and police organizations have ready access to, and we do not wish to provide them with the means to exploit our technologies and advance their own on the backs of our citizens monetary investments.  1) it is bad security/self defense, 2) it is BAD investment.  
You have blatantly stated a disregard for the laws of my country and a flippancy toward international laws and agreements... simply because there is something YOU want.  Your sister is also a criminal.  Regardless of what you think of the laws you and she are violating, you ARE criminals... federal criminals and international criminals.  What if your order gets into the hands of some other criminal, who would otherwise not have access to higher quality optics, and that criminal then assassinates some government leader... or just kills some innocent man, woman or child?  Who is at fault?  Perhaps you don't care, because you were just getting what you wanted.  Because it has not happened yet, to you, does not mean it won't.  You are are a criminal who has now provided criminal information on how to "defeat the system(laws)" to a large number of potential criminals and adversaries.  Some may have figured it out, some may not, but you have given direct information that is actionable.  In OUR country, when we have a problem with existing laws, we work to change them... not violate them for personal gratification.  One of the many things that sets us apart from the rest of the world... a separation I proudly acknowledge, proudly accept, proudly intend to promulgate.  
 
Thanks for your lengthy answer.  I do not appreciate you calling me or my sister a criminal. All she did was sending me optics to South Africa.  She did not lie on the package, in fact she even said it was optical equipment.  There are hundreds of South African hunters getting scopes mailed to them every day.  The package gets opened by Customs EVERYTIME and if it was illegal I would not have received it.  Like I said, somebody in America, from this forum said the only illegal scope is those with mildot reticles.  Mailing a hunting scope is NOT illegal! Maybe you must get away from your computers a little more? I have not broken your countries law or South African law so you too <profanity removed, for the final time>!


Edited by koshkin - July/09/2012 at 10:23
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/09/2012 at 08:30
billyburl2 View Drop Down
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Just because it is not illegal in South Africa does not mean it is legal in the USA. You are side-stepping laws that the distributors are following and getting things that United States does not wish exported. That is breaking our law, thus being a criminal...

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/09/2012 at 09:31
tahqua View Drop Down
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Louis, do not use profane language on this forum to address other members. This is a warning.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/09/2012 at 10:46
Gerry Atric View Drop Down
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kickboxer and billyburl2,
 
 
I see a two-way street:
 
You get a no-no from the US scope-vendor - to by-pass this by acting as an US citizen (in any way)and have the scope sent abroad is a criminal act.
 
You get an OK from the US scope-vendor (correctly or by "mistake"), the scope is sent abroad - the vendor is the criminal if charged ......
 
Almost all scopes (both tactical and hunting) sold in the US are also sold in Europe, so there´s not a matter of avoiding to spread war-technology. It´s a matter of saving dollars for us europeans.
 
I´ll walk the straight and narrow.....but I like a discussion.
 
Gerry Atric
 
 
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