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Why big objectives?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/23/2007 at 20:17
jackG View Drop Down
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This may be obvious, but intuitively I'm missing something.   The opposite end the scope tube is bell shaped to accomodate the 42mm, 50mm or whatever sized lense.  I understand that part and the reason for a larger diameter lense.  However, when it comes to the objective end, this doesn't hold.  I see some scopes, often shotgun scopes, having the objective lense the same diameter as the scope tube.  Other than a larger hole through which to peer, is there any optical reason for having an objective lense larger than the scope tube?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/23/2007 at 21:50
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Either I don't understand the question or you are using objective when you mean okular?

As I understand it you mean the okular and that is the part that is closest to the eye.

 

In such case the question is very easy, the bigger the okular the bigger will the Fiel of View get.

 

Regards Technika

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/23/2007 at 22:16
jackG View Drop Down
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You're right.  Thanks for the correction.  And the explanation makes sense. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2007 at 07:19
jonbravado View Drop Down
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let's more light in the front - wider field of view - larger exit pupil depending on magnification setting.

 

i like big objective lenses for lowlight - but the glass has to be up to par.

 

J

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2007 at 07:31
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The objetive lens has nothing to do with FOW.

 

Regards Technika

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2007 at 09:20
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Large oculars, the assembly that you look into, are usually associated with a wider field of view and/or a longer focal length for lower magnification. The trade offs are more weight, often softer edges of the image, shorter eye relief, more prone to flare, and more cost, especially to minimize the other problems.    

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2007 at 09:28
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1 st scope.

So you are saying you prefer smaller oculars?

 

Regards Technika

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/25/2007 at 01:58
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I'll usually take a better executed 'plain ocular due better edges, smaller, longer eye relief, and less prone to flare, over one with a wide field that doesn't do as well in those areas and costs more.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/25/2007 at 02:08
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I prefers wide angle to sharp edges at the periferi.

 

The reason for me is simple, when I look through a scope or a binocular and I want to look very precisely at the object I use the center of the picture. When I use the wide angle is to see if there is more animals or whatever.

 

When it comes to scopes I suspect that you not have experience from the better quality scopes.

The sharpness out to the edges on a good scope like Zeiss, SuB or Swarovski is in my opinion no problem.

 

And lastly the Swarovski Z6 is actually just the opposite to what you described, big ocular, long eyerelief and big FOV.

The eyerelief is 95 or 120 mm depending on model.

 

Personally I use 80mm eyerelief on mostly guns, and though i don't use any caliber heavyer than .358 Norma mag i have never seen the use of long eyerelief scopes for my needs.

 

Regards Technika

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/25/2007 at 09:41
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But you perhaps 'prove' my point about cost, as one seems to need to spend more, possibly a LOT more, to get similar or better optical quality with a wide angle. Zeiss and whatnot are interesting optically but I'll never spend that much on a scope, so I look at what makes sense at my price points. For me the benefits of spending more results in returns diminishing close to zero.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/25/2007 at 10:38
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In such case you might be right.

But I have bougth two Zeiss 3-12x56 ZM/Z second hand in good condition for 500 USD....so depending on the pricerange you buy in, i might have proven you'r point or not.......

 

Regards Technika

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2007 at 00:54
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Below is a comparison of 1.5-6x42 scopes, with field of view at 100 yds. The Sightron, which is what I ended up with, has the smallest field, but seems to be the most affordable in that size and range. I consider holding zero and not fogging as the most important attributes for a scope, and everything else is icing.      

 

Kahles 1.5-6x42 Helia C 30mm Riflescope
72 - 21.3  $1,058.95

 

Schmidt & Bender 1.5-6x42 Variable Hunting 30mm Riflescope
60 - 19.5 $1,868.95

 

Nikon 1.5-6x42 Monarch Gold 30mm Riflescope
64.7 - 17.3 $599.95

 

New Meopta 1.5-6x42 Artemis 2000 30mm Rifle Scope
64 - 21 $549.95

 

Swarovski 1.5-6x42 Professional Hunter 30mm Riflescope
66.3 - 21 $1,328.95

 

New Zeiss 1.5-6x42 Diavari VM/V 30mm Rifle Scope
72 - 20.7 $1,399.95

 

Sightron SII 1.56x42
50-15 $204.99

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2007 at 01:24
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We have different demands due to different hunting situtions.

 

On the top quality scopes there is rarely any problems with fogging and holding zero, so that is not a consideration.

 

When it comes to FOV I find it very important, as I would use such a scope on a rifle for driven hunts, where sometimes the game is VERY close.

The 1,5-6X42 is a great allround scope, so with the best quality you can also be fairly sucessfull for dusk and low lighthunting, so therefor my choise would be Zeiss.

 

But as I don't really have a budget for Zeiss, i would have to buy second hand.

 

Regards Technika

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2007 at 12:15
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FOV is not as important to me as is target definition. Top end scopes allow for outstanding target defintion and outstanding accuracy in thier mechanics. Constant eye relief and well desighned FFP reticles and illuminated systems are also something that I look for in a scope. Target definition could appear similar in two top end scopes but the real secrets in the glass and coating quality are revield in the poorest light. I currently like Zeiss and S&B for the above features that I prefer, giving the slightest of edge on all of the above to S&B. Drawbacks for these two brands are less elevation due to larger internal movements and a 34MM tube is required to achieve increased elevation with these two brands adding weight. Is it worth it, I say hell ya, you only live ounce.

Edited by SVD666
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2007 at 21:24
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I ended up with with a 1.5-6 after looking at the typical 3-9 scopes, which didn't focus as close as I wanted. I don't like giving up ground close to me. The 3-9 scopes also didn't allow the instant target aquisition that I'm use to with aperture sights.  

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2007 at 09:17
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The size will not matter if the lenses do not let light through . You could have a 65mm lens but the light gathering ability may be lower than a 40mm with better gathering characteristics . Look at it this way ... you could mount a huge spotting scope on your rifle but if the lenses are inferior on light gathering you'd lose !
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2007 at 11:48
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But, the VXII is 300 bucks and only goes to 4x magnification.



Edited by Dolphin
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2007 at 14:08
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rootmanslim, Jeezz, I don't remember making that statement. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2007 at 14:19
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Had to go back to the original post from jackG to remember what this thread was all about.  Seems to me from his orginal post that he was wondering why the necessity for a big bell at the objective end.  This being the case would need to confirm with him but think he was looking for support for a trimmer scope.

 

If this is the case would guess he needs something in a lower power.  Not sure you need the high power scopes for large game that seem to be so popular for most hunting situations - bean field, plain hunting are obvious exceptions.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2007 at 15:08
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what is "plain hunting"?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2007 at 15:11
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mea culpa

 

Just gotta learn to type one of these days (or proof read)!  Should have been typed as "plains hunting"

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/11/2007 at 08:30
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i use 56mm on my longer range rifles.  These are for longer shots 200yrds or so in lowlight over open fields and cutovers.

 

in the SE we have early and long hunting days and it really helps to have the 56mm to extend my hunting time into the dark hour.

 

J

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/11/2007 at 13:01
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Optics GrassHopper
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Another consideration about the 'original question' is that a wider field of view due to using a wide angle ocular (typically a bigger one) is a different attribute than perceived brightness due to magnification (exit pupil), and a different attribute than close focus ability. There are different ways to get what is the perceived need, as instead of trying to use a higher magnification with a wider field for target aquisition, you can use a lower magnification with a 'normal' field, and end with a lighter scope that could cost less.

 

For focusing up close there doesn't seem to be a replacement for lower magnification, so the best 4-12 by umpteen mm scope in the world is still not a solution for my needs, and based on what I've looked thru so far neither is any other 3 to whatever.    

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