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Why 1x4 Combo instead of 3x9 Combo?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/09/2011 at 19:51
Hamm I Am View Drop Down
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Hello,

I have never bought a scope for an AR before and am a little confused.  I originally was thinking of aimpoint / eotech  style.  Then i started thinking that if the gun and round are capable of reaching out much farther than 100 or 200 yards or so, why would i want a scope that will limit my usage to short range.  

Then I started researching the popular variable low power scopes.  Mainly the 1x4 power scopes.  I liked the idea of these because you could use still use it on 1x and use it like an red dot, but you also had a little power for some range.  Then I saw some with red dots mounted on top of the low power scope.  

My though that was that is genious.  Why not have both.  Close range and some power for long range.  Now I am wondering why you would only use a low power scope like a 1x4  (Example Burris XTR, or Burris TAC30 ) If you plan to have the red dot style mounted on top of it for close range?  Seems like it would make more sense to have something like a 3x9 or the like in order to have better long range capabilities and just stick with the red dot type for the close range.

With that in mind, do you have any sugestions for a 3x9 with a some type of reticle that has BDC or Mill dots or similar functionality?

Thanks,
  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/10/2011 at 11:48
silver View Drop Down
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Hamm I am,
 
Yes you can, Hamm I am, have scope and dot. But Scope and dot for what? To shoot short and to as far as you can see? But what if you want to work in the trees? Or where you will crawl on your knees? What if have to run through the trees chased by angery bees? In the Brush, in a rush? Will you snag on a crag? That would be a drag...
 
You can only do one thing well... Sure more than one is swell, but you can tell all is not well. For you have to compromise.  IS that wise?DevilGet Your Popcorn Ready
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/10/2011 at 16:40
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Welcome to Optics Talk. 

I run a SS 3-9x on my .308 bolt gun. I recently put a Badger Micro Sight Mount on my Badger rings, to hook up my Aimpoint T1, for close up shots. 

It works great. You have the best of both worlds. 


That said, I also have the 1-4x SS and love it.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/10/2011 at 17:40
Jon A View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Hamm I Am Hamm I Am wrote:

Now I am wondering why you would only use a low power scope like a 1x4  (Example Burris XTR, or Burris TAC30 ) If you plan to have the red dot style mounted on top of it for close range?  Seems like it would make more sense to have something like a 3x9 or the like in order to have better long range capabilities and just stick with the red dot type for the close range.

I agree with what you're getting at.  The idea behind a 1-4X scope is being able to use it on 1X and not need a red dot.  Some do this better than others, of course.  If one wants a red dot you might as well pair it with a 3-9, 2.5-10, etc.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/10/2011 at 19:24
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/10/2011 at 23:58
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2011 at 13:57
Hamm I Am View Drop Down
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Very Clever Silver!  

Thanks for the input guys.  

Cheaptrick I was planning on using the Burris P.E.R.P mount that would allow me to mount the red dot on top.  How do you like the badger mount that you referred to.  Do you know what seems to be the consensus? Is top mount or side mounted more popular?

   
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2011 at 01:18
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I'm in the same boat bud.

I dare someone to find a gun that is more difficult to find the right optics for, than the Kel-Tec RFB. A 26 inch .308 autoloader with 20 or 30 rounds available is very capable of many different tasks. You have to be concerned with both rapid aiming at close range and also having good magnification for precision shooting at 300+ yards. From what I understand a lot of guys mount a red dot sight not on top of the scope, but angled at 45 degrees to the right of it. They tilt the gun to not break their cheek weld.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2011 at 13:22
Hamm I Am View Drop Down
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Ya I'm  leaning toward the 45 degree mount.  (no Pun intended Wink).  i'll start a new thread to get some opinions on those options.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2011 at 16:17
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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The Badger mount, like I have and posted, allows you to look through your red dot with either your non dominate, or dominate eye. 

I shoot lefty, so I placed the rail cap/red dot, on the right side, so I could just shut my left eye, look through the Aimpoint with my right eye. 
This seems easier to me than lifting my head and breaking my cheek weld, to get my left eye on the red dot, since I'm already on the right side of the rifle. (shrug) 
 
Most shooters are RH and most of the pictures I've seen posted have the red dot on the right side, so maybe I'm wonky. Loco
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2011 at 16:23
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Originally posted by chickkahn chickkahn wrote:

From what I understand a lot of guys mount a red dot sight not on top of the scope, but angled at 45 degrees to the right of it. They tilt the gun to not break their cheek weld.

That may be something I can try too. Tilt the rifle.   
I need to spend more time with this set up and haven't tried that yet, but I will. 

Welcome to Optics Talk, chickkahn.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2011 at 16:31
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The problem I see with mounting a red dot on top of the scope is the distance it puts between the sight and the barrel.

That red dot is for shooting close up, but if it is 4  inches above your bore, that means for close shots you have to compensate for that distance.  So if you want to make a close shot say to a zombies head, or target, or animal, or whatever you have to aim a good 4 inches high so that bullet hits where you want it to.  That can be hard to remember and judge when you are in a hurry causing a miss.  ARs are bad enough with the sight mounted properly, you still have to compensate a good 2 to 2.5 inches on those close shots.

I guess you could sight it in for 15 yards, but would it have the necessary adjustment to make that kind of angle work.  Then what if you want to use that red dot for a 50 yards shot.  Suddenly you have to aim way low to make that shot work.  Plus it is not going to be as fast and consistent because you will not have any kind of cheek weld to reference off of.  So it will not be a fast sight like a regularly mounted red dot would.

Mounting it on the side at a 45 degree angle would work better IMO, but still not optimal.

As far as mid range goes, one you start shooting past 200 yards you need to start compensating for the drop with either a BDC reticle (which typically suck) or dialing those shots in.  So you would need something with knobs.

I have been using the SS 1-4x scope for a while now.  Would it be better if it was a 1-8x?  Maybe. But then it would be bigger, heavier and more expensive.  But I honestly have no issues shooting and making good consistent hits to 600 yards with my AR.  I picked off several p-dogs at 200 yards plus with my AR by dialing in my SS 1-4x.  It is the best do all scope I have tried.  On 1x it is dang near as fast as a red dot, on 4x it has such great glass I can easily make good hits to the limits of the round.  It has a mil based reticle that I can use for holdovers and wind holds with any bullet combo I want to use and I can dial in my shots for the best accuracy.

All around for an AR the SS 1-4x is a tough one to beat.  The size, weight, length, eye relief, glass quality, reticle choices, knobs, power range, etc, are all just prefect for 90% of the uses of an AR-15. 


Edited by supertool73 - December/12/2011 at 16:32
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/12/2011 at 22:04
chickkahn View Drop Down
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Thanks for the welcome, cheaptrick. I too have wondered why someone would mount a red dot on the far side of the gun instead of in front of their left eye...

Supertool raises an excellent point. Why do some bother with a red dot sight and then put a 3x magnifier on it when they could just have a 1-4x scope?
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