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whoa ist mir -- Deutschland

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/05/2014 at 13:27
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It should be interesting with Putin's recent behavior has on the Deutschland. I am heading over there in a few weeks and have already heard there could be some possible changes in business behavior. Most of Germany's energy is supplied by Mr Putin(28-30% of natural gas/oil and at least 50% coal fired electricity).
With the Deutschlands puppet strings controlled by Mr Putin.

Its quite obvious where Germanys allegiance is... along with the rest of Europe.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/06/2014 at 08:04
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And they thought the cold war was over.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/06/2014 at 08:36
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Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

And they thought the cold war was over.


+1 It appears to be re-kindling! Too bad we don't have Mr. Reagan any longer.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/06/2014 at 08:54
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Cuba blockade here we come............
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/06/2014 at 09:02
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Its quite obvious where Germanys allegiance is... along with the rest of Europe.

I`d say that it`s a damn nervous alliance with Putin`s hand on the energy taps and his imperialistic leanings.

Obama sure doesnt inspire much confidence with his empty rhetoric.  What concerns me even more is how the western leaders all seemed to be caught off guard by Putin`s move. His (so far) smooth and rapid incursion into Crimea could not have been accomplished without a lot of prior planning.  The Kremlin obviously saw the real possibility of this crisis well in advance and methodically prepared both a short-run military tactic and a long run geopolitical strategic plan to partition Ukraine.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/06/2014 at 09:48
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Originally posted by Dogger Dogger wrote:



Its quite obvious where Germanys allegiance is... along with the rest of Europe.

I`d say that it`s a damn nervous alliance with Putin`s hand on the energy taps and his imperialistic leanings.

Obama sure doesnt inspire much confidence with his empty rhetoric.  What concerns me even more is how the western leaders all seemed to be caught off guard by Putin`s move. His (so far) smooth and rapid incursion into Crimea could not have been accomplished without a lot of prior planning.  The Kremlin obviously saw the real possibility of this crisis well in advance and methodically prepared both a short-run military tactic and a long run geopolitical strategic plan to partition Ukraine.


Nervous or not, there is no doubt these country's and their industry are pawns of Mr Putin. Every day goes by with their utter dependace on Russia, the deeper they sink.
What is worse yet, is the vast majority of 80+ million citizens in Germany are wholly oblivious where their energy needs come from, even if they did they don't give a s%#@.

They have made their bed and are sleeping in it. Every time I go over there their blind behavior astounds me, ignorance is a choice... and bliss so it seems.

Edited by rustic - March/06/2014 at 11:29
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/06/2014 at 10:26
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Ever since Putin was elected President of Russia the cold war has been back on. We just refused to recognize it. The first thing he did was to improve their economy, and at the same time he started to covertly consolidate his power over Russia by rigging elections and silencing his opposition. The second thing he did was to keep military spending low so as not to appear to be a threat to the west, but at the same time he has sold off older military stocks to raise capital and at the same time supply arms to enemies of the west. He also has kept military research going on conventional weapons. The third thing he has done and this is the biggest tell, has been his diplomacy with enemies of the west. He has seen that issues with Iran, North Korea, Palestine, and Syria are not resolved all the while sitting back and observing the leaders of the west and their resolve.

Of course We've made it easy for Putin to gain economic power. We have closed factories and shipped them to China and other countries that aren't exactly our friends. We've either stopped or made it difficult to mine resources (oil, coal, lead, etc.) and have become dependent on countries like Russia and China for those resources. Our politics have hurt us as well by letting in anyone that can get across our boarders become a drain on our welfare systems and even becoming part of the political process. 

I could go on, but I don't have the time. I'll just sum it up with Putin's own words. It should give you an idea as to how he operates. As Putin said about negotiating with President Obama, "Negotiating with Obama is like playing chess with a pigeon. He nocks over all the chess pieces, and then struts around like he won". Putin is playing chess with the world, and he's winning.   

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/06/2014 at 12:48
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^This is true, the eventual collapse of the EU then all of Europe, uncle Putin will be there to put Humpty Dumpty back together again... with conditions.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/08/2014 at 11:43
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Meanwhile, Obama will be over here playing pocket pool while denying his latest Scandal-of-the-Week....



Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/08/2014 at 15:02
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Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

Ever since Putin was elected President of Russia the cold war has been back on. We just refused to recognize it. The first thing he did was to improve their economy, and at the same time he started to covertly consolidate his power over Russia by rigging elections and silencing his opposition. The second thing he did was to keep military spending low so as not to appear to be a threat to the west, but at the same time he has sold off older military stocks to raise capital and at the same time supply arms to enemies of the west. He also has kept military research going on conventional weapons. The third thing he has done and this is the biggest tell, has been his diplomacy with enemies of the west. He has seen that issues with Iran, North Korea, Palestine, and Syria are not resolved all the while sitting back and observing the leaders of the west and their resolve.

Of course We've made it easy for Putin to gain economic power. We have closed factories and shipped them to China and other countries that aren't exactly our friends. We've either stopped or made it difficult to mine resources (oil, coal, lead, etc.) and have become dependent on countries like Russia and China for those resources. Our politics have hurt us as well by letting in anyone that can get across our boarders become a drain on our welfare systems and even becoming part of the political process. 

I could go on, but I don't have the time. I'll just sum it up with Putin's own words. It should give you an idea as to how he operates. As Putin said about negotiating with President Obama, "Negotiating with Obama is like playing chess with a pigeon. He nocks over all the chess pieces, and then struts around like he won". Putin is playing chess with the world, and he's winning.   


Just out of curiosity: why would you think that the Cold War was ever over?  Putin did not restart it.  It never stopped.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/08/2014 at 16:24
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Well if not stopped altogether Ilya the period of detent from the mid 80's at least reduced tensions considerably on both sides.  Earlier SALT talks/treaties, perestroika/glasnost, Start I talks and the removal of the Berlin wall point to a significant shift in Soviet attitudes until fairly recently.

The fact that these shifts were not altogether altruistic (heavy pressures due to a floundering domestic economy and the inability to maintain the status quo on arms build up) should not be a surprise but it certainly is an indicator that for a period of time at least they were attempting to engage in a moderate approach.

I wish I was more optimistic for the near future however.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/08/2014 at 17:14
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With all of western Europe - its piss poor work ethic, living on and spending others money. It was and is obvious Russia would stick around. There is no way western Europe could ever be economically viable with their wholly socialist government and industry. Their behavior over the last century plus could only enable the totalitarian states to border them.

But, then again... same ol' story different century in the cradle of so called civilization.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/08/2014 at 17:44
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Which exact place are you calling the cradle of our civilization?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/08/2014 at 17:47
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Originally posted by Dogger Dogger wrote:

Well if not stopped altogether Ilya the period of detent from the mid 80's at least reduced tensions considerably on both sides.  Earlier SALT talks/treaties, perestroika/glasnost, Start I talks and the removal of the Berlin wall point to a significant shift in Soviet attitudes until fairly recently.

The fact that these shifts were not altogether altruistic (heavy pressures due to a floundering domestic economy and the inability to maintain the status quo on arms build up) should not be a surprise but it certainly is an indicator that for a period of time at least they were attempting to engage in a moderate approach.

I wish I was more optimistic for the near future however.

The were significantly reduced tensions from one side: US.  Not so much from the other side.  I think you are confusing change in the balance of power with reduced tensions.

They were never attempting to engage in a moderate approach.  Any brief survey of russian-language press and literature would tell you that.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/08/2014 at 18:45
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After the tensions with Cuba in 1962 and again in 1983 after the Korean Airlines incident and the Able Archer war games I'm willing to bet that the Soviet brass were able to relax their sphincters more than a little bit. 

Balance of power certainly shifted after the dissolution of the USSR in '91 but the lack of military response to those Warsaw Pact countries that overthrew their communist regimes certainly seemed out of character to what we had come to expect of those openly defying Moscow in the past.

I must admit I am at a real disadvantage not having your perspective - an outsider view can be easily skewed depending who is writing the history books.  As for surveying Russian-language press I admit defeat. My linguistic skills are sorely lacking Ilya!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/08/2014 at 18:59
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Which exact place are you calling the cradle of our civilization?


I should have said - so called self proclaimed cradle of civilization.

You know... in their own uppity way.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2014 at 12:03
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That period when Boris Yelstin was President of Russia, I would say there was no hostility between the U.S. and Russia, but that's about it.

I recently watched a Russian war movie called "White Tiger", made in 2010 or 2012. I was kind of shocked by symbols of the hammer and cycle in the credits (couldn't read anything, everything was in Russian), and the emphasis that was placed on the importance of being a Communist Party member in the movie. I think the Russian people are wanting Communism back, and that scares me.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2014 at 13:27
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Rustic, I don't know what your hard on is for Germans but your bullsh*t is getting deep. I work with Germans daily and understand them quite well. Maybe I work with a high caliber group of people but my travels in Germany tell me to throw the BS flag.

Edited by Steelbenz - March/10/2014 at 13:33
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2014 at 14:22
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Just my personal observations. I travel over there several times a year for business purposes, there is no way their industry could ever survive without help from their socialist government. Then there is the issue of Germany's puppet master, Russia.

After all Karl Heinrich Marx was a German philosopher, economist, sociologist, historian, journalist, and revolutionary socialist... is basically worshipped over there.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2014 at 15:00
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As do I from Friedrichshafen to Bremerhaven & everywhere in between, your stereotyping of a whole people group is offensive an only makes you look like the goober not them.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2014 at 15:29
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Just to try and put things into perspective; people are people the world over, and there are all kinds. Some places may have more of an abundance of one type due to circumstances than others, but rest assured the rest are there too. I have met and known a number of Germans over here, and from what I have observed from them is that they are no different than us, good and bad. I do however find it hard to believe that one of, if not thee strongest economy in Europe is manned by a bunch of slackers.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2014 at 15:34
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I would not call it stereo typing as much as real time observations. The only place in Europe more socialist is Scandinavia. In country that is mostly run on fossil fuels, 28% to 30% of their natural gas at least 50+% electricity from coal fired plants all from Russia. Ask the general public where their energy is supplied from? Some of responses are - renewables or from the government or from the EU but, mostly "I don't know or care for that matter".
I guess in their 28-30 hour work week and 7-8 weeks of payed vacation. They can afford to look the other way... ignorance is bliss as they say.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2014 at 16:14
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The sad thing is this country is only a few years behind Europe in social behavior, our industry is well on its way too. Call it Providence or whatever it is at and beyond to point of no return anyway, world wide debt is far beyond solvency. The robbing of Peter to pay Paul is just too redundant to point out.
It is out of anyone's hands so, with preachiness or told you so or could of would of should of with standing that is just the way it is no matter the "country" they/we ALL screwed the pouch... procrastination is always second nature.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2014 at 17:45
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Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

That period when Boris Yelstin was President of Russia, I would say there was no hostility between the U.S. and Russia, but that's about it.

I recently watched a Russian war movie called "White Tiger", made in 2010 or 2012. I was kind of shocked by symbols of the hammer and cycle in the credits (couldn't read anything, everything was in Russian), and the emphasis that was placed on the importance of being a Communist Party member in the movie. I think the Russian people are wanting Communism back, and that scares me.


About 20-30% of the russian people want Communism back, but they are mostly older people and they are slowly dying out.

During the Yeltsin period, there was no less hostility in Russia toward America.  There was probably less hostility in America toward Russia.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2014 at 19:48
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"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries." -- Winston Churchill

Like the pigs in Orwell's Animal Farm, socialists believe that "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." For a socialist, the overriding concern is always promoting socialism so... process, rules and regulation mean different things for different people.






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