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Which Hunting Scope Would You Choose?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/04/2011 at 22:54
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Which hunting scope would you yhoose?
 
New Vortex Viper 2-7x32 $150
20 year old Leupold VXIII 2.5-8x36 (good shape) $225
New Conquest 3-9x40 $400
 
I already own a VV and find the glass to be really good, but the reticle a little too fine for hunting.  Overall I'm highly impressed with the VV - for the money.  Money certainly matters and I started out set on the Conquest.  I have no doubt the Conquest is the best of the bunch, but wonder if it's worth it.
 
If you can believe this, I found these two scopes tonight, being sold locally:
 
Schmidt & Bender fixed 6x24 NIB (15-20 years old) $300
Swarovski Optik Habicht Nova 3-9x36 (used, no longer in production) $350
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/04/2011 at 23:16
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More info:
 
The chosen scope will be mounted on a new .270 Win rifle and used to hunt deer/pigs in open country with shots from 50-250 yards.  Perhaps longer if I am up to it and have the right rest.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/05/2011 at 01:06
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The Conquest or the Swaro.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/05/2011 at 08:22
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Welcome ArtP! IMO, to be sure, the Viper is the best buy; the Leupy is overpriced. I'd check out the Samplelist here also. You can't go wrong with the Conquest though. Good luck. 
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Originally posted by bugsNbows bugsNbows wrote:

Welcome ArtP! IMO, to be sure, the Viper is the best buy; the Leupy is overpriced. I'd check out the Samplelist here also. You can't go wrong with the Conquest though. Good luck. 
 
Thanks for the welcome!
 
I have checked the sample list from time to time.  I'm going to give you a little ribbing here...  Your thoughts pretty much echo my own and are really no help - LOL.  I'm kind of stuck between saving money with the VV or just jumping in with both feet and getting the best of the bunch (Conquest) at more than double the price.
 
I also have this crazy idea to buy the Schmidt & Bender at $250-$300, flip it on eBay, and use the profits to buy the Conquest.  A search revealed that two of the identical S&B scopes sold for mid 5's.  I'm not speaking of asking price, which is not a good indicator, but actual selling price; and these sales were used, not NIB.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/05/2011 at 09:12
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Welcome to OT.  
The Conquest would be my first choice, the Swarovski second.  Based upon your stated requirements, I, personally, would not consider the others.  
Either of those two scopes is ideal for your needs.  
A Miata is a very nice little sports car... is the difference between it and a Corvette worth it???  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/05/2011 at 09:24
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A Miata is a nice sports car?

I replaced a Conquest 3-9X40 on my 7-08 with a 2-7 VV, and don't regret it.  Part of the reason was the form factor.  The Conquest is a long 3-9. 

I do like the Conquest reticle thickness. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/05/2011 at 09:43
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Originally posted by Bitterroot Bulls Bitterroot Bulls wrote:

A Miata is a nice sports car?

I replaced a Conquest 3-9X40 on my 7-08 with a 2-7 VV, and don't regret it.  Part of the reason was the form factor.  The Conquest is a long 3-9. 

I do like the Conquest reticle thickness. 
 
I am unable to find the reticle subtentions for the Conquest or the Leupy, though I can find them for the VV - which are 1.2 & .3 for the thick and thin parts of the reticle.  Those are about the same as the Burris SS scopes I use, but they appear finer on the VV.
 
You don't have that Conquest for sale do you?  (sure you don't).  I have noticed, finding a used Conquest at anything under $375 is non-existent.  It's another reason to choose the Conquest - resale.
 
The reason I am being so frugal with money is that I'm self employed, just bought a rifle I did not need and now a scope.  I had no business spending more money on gun stuff and should be saving as work can die off at any second.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/05/2011 at 12:06
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Sorry, I don't have the Conquest any longer.  It was the Rapid-Z model.  I liked that scope a lot, but it was a little big for my Rem Model 7.

Optically it outperformed the Viper, but not by a heavy margin.  I have the BDC Viper 2-7 and find it a perfect compliment to my little rifle.  I like the reticle thickness on the viper, but I do think the Rapid Z was thicker.

I think the Conquest is the nicer scope overall, but the Viper is more than serviceable, and much more affordable.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/05/2011 at 12:26
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Matt, thanks for all your thoughts.  I really like those model seven's, I'm even considering one in 308 with that short 20" barrel.
 
I too have a VV 2-7 with the BDC.  I actually had some difficulty mounting mine because of the odd magnification ring.  I like the ring, it just doesn't give as much mounting latitude and in low rings it very, very slightly rubs on the action (the only effect I believe it has is on my nerves).    I had to replace my bases with multi-slot bases to accommodate.  It's my belief a 32mm objective ought to mount in low rings.
 
The only VV left in stock is the odd reticle with the circle (versa plex).  I'm not sure what to make of it.  I'd rather just have a medium to heavy duplex.  I am also a little baffled why Vortex decided to put a finer reticle in a scope configuration (2-7) that is clearly meant for hunting.  The reticle would seem right at home on 6-24 target scope.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/05/2011 at 13:19
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Originally posted by Bitterroot Bulls Bitterroot Bulls wrote:

A Miata is a nice sports car?

I replaced a Conquest 3-9X40 on my 7-08 with a 2-7 VV, and don't regret it.  Part of the reason was the form factor.  The Conquest is a long 3-9. 

I do like the Conquest reticle thickness. 
My wife thinks so... 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/05/2011 at 13:21
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I, personally, would never buy the Viper... but to each his own.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/05/2011 at 13:59
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Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

I, personally, would never buy the Viper... but to each his own.  
 
I do not have a problem with opinions, really.  I'm curious if you've ever looked through a Viper?  Neither do I have a problem if a guy wants to slam a product, but you should state why.  A blanket statement, like, "I hate xxxxxxx", without an explanation has no credibility.
 
I own or have owned:  Burris SS & FFII's, Leupold Vari-X III, VXII, Nikon Monarchs, of course the VV.  Personally, I couldn't stand the Monarch's though I still own one in low power.  I find the Viper, optically, to be up there with Signature Select's and the Leupy III's +/-.  I find the Viper turrets to be better than any of the scopes I've used.  I cannot vouch for durability yet, though I have the Viper on a 338/06, but I've only launched about 20 rounds out of it.  I'll also concede it's easier to make a low power scope perform optically.
 
(the reason I did not like the Monarch 4-16x44 was an extremely unforgiving eyebox (scope wink with the slightest movement), lack of contrast and not the best resolution.  Perhaps I got a lemon, but I wasn't about to go 'round-n-'round with Nikon about it since there was no clear, identifiable problem.  Off to eBay it went.)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/05/2011 at 14:24
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I did not state an opinion, but a fact... I would not purchase a Vortex Viper.  I have nothing against them and the ones I have "looked through", have been OK, just OK.  There is nothing that draws me to the Viper...  In an optical comparison, the Conquest is superior in my eyes.  I am highly familiar with the Conquest mechanicals, less so the Vortex, but am quite happy with the Conquest... there is nothing I have noted in the Vortex that would make me "have to have one".   Vortex Viper is owned by a US company and assembled in Japan.  Conquest is owned by Zeiss, Germany and assembled in the US.  To me that is a wash.  
I didn't say I hated anything ArtP... don't assume, don't put words in my text...  I said I wouldn't buy one, because I have no need for one, there is nothing it offers I find attractive over scopes that have been in the market far longer with histories I like.  
I'm not advising you to purchase or not purchase ANYTHING.  The fact is, the Zeiss Conquest is a better all around scope than the others you mentioned AND TO ME worth the price differential.  If you want to purchase a cheaper scope, your call... I don't control any of your funds.  But don't expect an honest evaluation to say the Vortex Viper is the "full equivalent" of the Conquest... scope to scope, it is NOT.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/05/2011 at 14:56
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I did not set out to offend you.  After re-reading, I did somewhat put words in your mouth.  What I took from your post is that you did not like the Viper - not the same as hate and not the same as, "wouldn't buy one".  For that I'm sorry.
 
While you did word your response cleverly by saying you simply wouldn't buy one, I, and I suspect others take from that, that you simply don't like them - try as we might, at least I sometimes make unfair assumptions or generalizations.  While you certainly don't owe an explanation to anyone, it is nice to hear why you wouldn't buy one.  As I suggested, it lends credibility to opinion, or as you stated - what you would do..
 
For the record, there is absolutely no question in my mind the Conquest is a better scope.  The questions I have are, is it worth twice as much and could I get away with using the Viper until I upgrade to a Zeiss?
 
It is my problem I am out buying more gun equipment that in reality I cannot afford.  And because of that, I'm trying to buy the best equipment I can for the money.  If I can cut a corner without much penalty I just might.  Sure, I've got the money in hand, but I should be saving that money and that's always an internal struggle in me.
 
Regardless of all this, thanks for your thoughts.
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/05/2011 at 15:06
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Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

Originally posted by Bitterroot Bulls Bitterroot Bulls wrote:

A Miata is a nice sports car?

My wife thinks so... 


Just a little ribbing there, KB.  If a Miata helps keep that wonderful and generous wife of yours happy, then it is a fine sports car indeed!

To the OP, I would be happy scoping a new rifle with either another VV or another ZC.  The only thing keeping me from ordering another discounted 2-7 VV for an unknown future rifle is the unorthodox C3 reticle.

A scope from the Conquest series would certainly be at the top of my consideration list for any new rifle as well.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/05/2011 at 15:50
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   I've got a 2-7x32 Viper w/C3 on a Mauser carbine.  I hunt a combination of some VERY THICK areas (in it most of the time) as well as the occasional open area which may provide shots at no more than 300yds.  Last season was the 1st w/this set up but already I'm really liking the reticle(and of course the scope in itself).  To date it's been the best reticle I've used for fast target acquisition.  I've used the post/crosshair and hvy plex both.  The C3 is not a "too busy" reticle that clogs your image at all.  Also the circle is not small by any count like the turkey reticles are. Only hunting situation I can't comment on is how the reticle will be in extreme low light but I'll deal with that when it/if it happens.
   BUT I do wish I could have also picked up one of these with the BDC while they were available. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/05/2011 at 16:38
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ArtP, i'm not offended... just trying to keep it straight.   For ME, the price differential is worth it.  I have no problems with Vipers, I just don't find enough attraction to buy one... it doesn't mean there is nothing to like, just not enough for me to jump on one.  If it is a question between Conquest and Viper, FOR ME, the Conquest will always win... for hunting applications, where your question centered.  
When it comes to tactical, I think the Vortex tactical line is a better than average choice to look at.  I have not had an opportunity to "handle" a PST of any sort, yet, but hope to soon.  Reviews from people I respect have been positive.  
I search for "value" all the time.  I will go against name brands/popular brands if a company offers me something that makes it worthwhile to do so.  I have not experienced it with Vortex, yet.  Nothing against Vortex, just nothing that excites me about them.  I'm hoping the PST is different... 
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KB, I appreciate the time you took to explain your position.  In fact, I just noticed your signature about opinion - LOL!
 
I probably will buy the Viper with plans of a future upgrade.  I'll lose $40, but so what.  I could also pull the Viper off my 338/06 since I have no immediate plans to use that rifle.  The only Viper I've looked through is the one I own and I'd be afraid of the lesser lines (Diamondback and Crossfire), but that's strictly my opinion.  If the Viper didn't normally sell for $250-$400, I doubt I would have ever taken the risk to try one.
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I'm having a 338-06 built on a Winchester Model 70 action, 30 inch Lilja barrel, custom "made to me" stock... two gunsmiths have "quit" working on it, so it has taken quite a while.  Good thing I'm patient... 
Do you not like yours?  Looks like a great "out to 400yd" gun with a short barrel, I expect mine to be good a mite further...

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/05/2011 at 19:14
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Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

I'm having a 338-06 built on a Winchester Model 70 action, 30 inch Lilja barrel, custom "made to me" stock... two gunsmiths have "quit" working on it, so it has taken quite a while.  Good thing I'm patient... 
Do you not like yours?  Looks like a great "out to 400yd" gun with a short barrel, I expect mine to be good a mite further...

 
Mine is a Savage 110, wood stock, non-accutrigger (still a very good trigger) with a mid-grade aftermarket barrel.  I also have the original 30-06 barrel if I ever wanted to sell the rifle.  I bought this rifle from a good friend but it had a Elite Firefly 3200 1.5-5 on it, which I didn't care for.  I'm not a fan of The Elite Bushnell's, but have never looked through a 6500.  The rifle is still pretty new to me, I've only put about 20 rounds down range.
 
Of course you have to reload to own this caliber or get completely eaten alive with hard to find factory ammo.  In my limited experience with it, I've shot approximate 1 MOA at 100 yards with quality factory ammo.  I have a box of Hornady 225gr bullets (component)  I plan to use and see if I can't get it to a half inch without giving up too much velocity.
 
I really do not have a need for it, I just wanted it!  I have always owned a 270 and now with the 338/06, I feel comfy that I am on the low end of the ever so useful and popular 270/7mm/308/30-06 class.  Rather than try and wring every ounce of power out of the 270, now I can just pickup the 338/06 and whack pretty much anything in the lower 48.  I have two boxes of Weatherby made 210gr Partition rounds that I think would be ideal for elk - devastating!
 
I really need to find out how this rifle performs long range.
 
Regarding the one you're having built, why such a long barrel?  It's my understanding that this is a rather efficient caliber that does not need a long barrel like a true magnum would to get all the velocity out of it.  After all, it holds about the same amount of powder as a 30/06 only shooting a larger bullet.  And yeah, it does kick.  If your scoped setup comes in at less than 9.5-10 pounds have a good recoil pad built in.  Funny, mine came with a hard plastic butt pad, which may as well have been steel, which I still haven't replaced, yet.
 
Good luck with your new setup!  It's always fun getting a new rifle.  I sold a Sako .270 and have a new .270  being shipped as we speak.
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I've actually had some associates do some "experimentation" with the 338-06.  They found the long heavy barrels useful...
I whitetail hunt with .458 Lott, have an i-dotting .338LM (30inch) and a couple of other moderately recoiling rifles... I think I'll be OK with the 338-06.  The stock will probably be a bit heavy... it is being finely tuned to balance the barrel so the balance point is precisely where my forward hand goes.  Still don't know when I'll get it... "soon"...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/05/2011 at 21:15
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Well, if you're shooting a 458 Lott, you'll have absolutely no trouble with your 338/06.  My hat's off to you.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/06/2011 at 06:27
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+1 conquest   nice scope for the money...
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