New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - what up with Kahles
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Check GunBroker.com for SWFA's No Reserve and No Minimum bid firearm auctions.

what up with Kahles

 Post Reply Post Reply   Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options Page  1 2>
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/14/2008 at 17:31
nitis View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: December/29/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 100
So I called the number off of the kahles site to get some info as far as warranty and what not for a Kahles multizero refurb off of samplelist the number had a recorded message that said to contact legacy sports out of Reno nevada.  So I did and they had no knowledge of swfa or samplelist ( probably did but viewed them more as a competitor and did not want to share).  Then he procede to tell me the kx model had multizero which according to the website is false.
 
My question is who is going to warranty the scopes and for how long if the place you are supposed to contact for help does not either know or want to help?
 
Anyone have any insight on this?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/14/2008 at 17:56
RifleDude View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: October/13/2006
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 14310

Kahles just recently parted ways with Swarovski of North America in Cranston, RI and they are now being imported by Legacy Sports.  Since this change just happened within the past 2 months, it's highly likely that some of the folks at Legacy are just not up to speed on the Kahles line yet and they don't have all their facts straight.  Kahles makes an excellent product, but time will tell whether or not Legacy is a good distributor and service center for them.  The relationship is just too new right now, so it's anyone's guess how the new Kahles/Legacy partnership will work out.

One thing that ticks me off, though, is when someone who is supposed to know the product they're selling yet obviously doesn't know what they're talking about gives you a bunch of techical b.s. instead of simply being honest and saying "sir, I don't know the answer to your question, but let me find out for you."  That totally destroys their credibility.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/14/2008 at 20:30
jackG View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: November/27/2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 141
I had planned on purchasing a Kahles 4-12X52 this spring.  However, this is discouraging news.   I immediately started looking at other option.  Do he low light capabilities and overall quality, I've been pretty well set on the German glass. 
 
It appears to me that among the Swarovski, Kahles and Zeiss, that the American, American hunter/KX, and the Conquest are comparable.  It was my understanding that the Kahles CL is a bit better. What Swarovsky and Zeiss models are comparable to the CL?
 
How does say a Ziess Conquest 4.5-14X44 or a Conquest 3-12X56 compare to the CL?  The 56 mm objective seems kind of awkward for a hunting rifle.  For that matter, what about the American lightweight in 3-10X42 Swarovski?  How do all these compare?
 
And at the end of the day how do they all compare to say a VXIII or a Mark 4?  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2008 at 07:58
Focus View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar
Conquistador!!

Joined: June/05/2007
Location: Maine
Status: Offline
Points: 1006
From what I can tell so far the conquest doesn't have quite as good a glass as the kahles, both in resolution and brightness. With that said after comparing the two, I prefer the conquest finish, the less critical eye position, the slightly longer eye relief, and by far the reticle. With the changeover kahles is requiring their scopes to be sent across the pond for service and I don't know how long it will take for them to get back to stateside warranty and service work. I would expect even after set-up it will take a while for the employees to actually attain the level of experience they had at SONA. All in all I find the slight increase in optics to not be worth the trade-off in other areas and to not justify the extra $ required to own the kahles at this point. Maybe somewhere down the road if $ don't jump after the current sell-off of existing stock is over. Also I just haven't hit a situation yet in 6 years of low light deer hunting where the conquest has failed to provide me with enough brightness and resolution to be able to make a shot with that easy to see z-plex. Just my view I guess.....

Focus

Edited by Focus - February/15/2008 at 08:03
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2008 at 12:30
RifleDude View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: October/13/2006
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 14310
All legitimate points, Dave.  My thinking on this comparison is:
 
- Right now, there are some excellent deals on Kahles scopes because of current pricing.
- Although I totally agree with you on preferring the Zeiss Z-Plex over the much thinner Kahles plex, I would choose the 4A in the Kahles anyway, which is just as visible as the Z-Plex.
-  The change from SONA to Legacy doesn't mean all that much to me.  I'm willing to take a chance on my scope not needing any service for a long time to come, at least until the service center logistics are all worked out.  There have been only 2 times in my life I've ever had to send any brand/model of scope in for service work and in one of those two occasions, it was because I accidentally dropped the scope onto a rock, bending the ocular.  The other occasion involved a mechanical problem with a scope 25 years ago.  I've never had any quality control problems with Kahles, or for that matter, any scope costing over $200.
- I think both series of scopes are excellent, though to my eyes, I think Kahles' optics are a significant enough of an improvement over the Conquest that I personally think the extra $ is worth it.  However, I like variety and can't justify spending Kahles $ on all my scopes, so for me, the choice between the two would generally come down to which series offers a model combination I like better for a given rifle rather than optical qualities.
- Conquest does offer a much better selection of reticles, depending on your intended use.
- Conquest has a little longer eye relief, Kahles has a little more FOV (when comparing equivalent models)
- It annoys me that Zeiss uses plastic turret caps and W/E knobs, even though I realize that is probably meaningless to actual longevity/durability.
- Kahles 1" scopes has far fewer models to choose from than is offered with the Conquest line.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2008 at 12:38
Ed Connelly View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
God of no Chihuahua

Joined: December/16/2007
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 24220
Methinks you dudes worry too much about Warranties! Stiring%20The%20Pot   
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2008 at 13:36
Focus View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar
Conquistador!!

Joined: June/05/2007
Location: Maine
Status: Offline
Points: 1006
Warranties are nothing to worry about.......till you need em'.....than they become most important. Hit a zeiss plastic cap with a mallet......than hit any make aluminum.....see which one collapses first and easiest. FOV just isn't as important to me as Eye Relief. Haven't heard any statement yet that kahles will even have any local service/warranty center stateside......believe me all scopes can and do fail on occasion. Sending a scope to europe is not as easy or as cost efficient as staying in the US.....Good points all, but I think I'll take a wait and see approach with kahles at this point.

   Focus

Edited by Focus - February/16/2008 at 13:37
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2008 at 13:42
pyro6999 View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
OT TITAN

Joined: December/22/2006
Location: North Dakota
Status: Offline
Points: 22024

everybody has products that fail, even leupold and nightforce.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2008 at 14:26
HuntMaster View Drop Down
Optics Professional
Optics Professional
Avatar

Joined: March/19/2007
Location: St Stephens,Al.
Status: Offline
Points: 990
Originally posted by Ed Connelly Ed Connelly wrote:

Methinks you dudes worry too much about Warranties! Stiring%20The%20Pot   
  
 
What he said !Coffee
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2008 at 14:56
Ed Connelly View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
God of no Chihuahua

Joined: December/16/2007
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 24220
( Did I do good?                                      "ONCE IN A WHILE".........Bow)       Maybe I ain't so old a dinosaur.....or, maybe, I just have company? 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2008 at 15:00
Duce View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: September/19/2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1231
Legacy sports is a wholesaler they don't sell retail, I have had good service from them in the past on rifles, no experience with them on scopes. You may want to address your questions to the retailer in this case SWFA I would call them on the phone and I think you will have all your Smilewarranty questions answered.
 
Duce
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2008 at 15:11
Focus View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar
Conquistador!!

Joined: June/05/2007
Location: Maine
Status: Offline
Points: 1006
Those questions are already answered.......you have to send kahles back to the home factory at this point. They have no stateside repair facility at all. SONA no longer works on kahles. Legacy is the new distributer in US, SWFA would be a retailer in US.....but there is NO service center in the US at this point in time. Warranties aren't needed at all unless something happens to your scope......then unless you can do your own repairs warranty becomes most important. I sell and ship to other countries, I don't want to have to send any scopes I own overseas for any warranty or repair work. Thats why I will choose to wait till things are sorted out on kahles end....if that doesn't bother you or you're sure you won't need any repair or warranty work, cool....

Focus

Edited by Focus - February/16/2008 at 15:12
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2008 at 18:28
jackG View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: November/27/2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 141
I confess, that's exactly what has me concerned.  Based on everything I've seen and read, the kahles appears to be a nearly perfect fit for my purposes.  However, when I stick a new scope on that rifle, it's to go hunting. And I'm having trouble envisioning shipping it off,  to God knows where to have it fixed as hunting season come barreling down  the track. That is, in the event there are problems with it. 
 
I hope they get this straightened out before say, mid summer, as that's when I'm gearing up to hunt.  If not, then it's got to be another brand. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2008 at 19:37
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 10961
I am not a very prolific hunter, but for my "go to" hunting rifle (a Tikka in 280Rem), I have two scopes sighted in a ready to go.  Whether the repair facility for a scope is in US or elsewhere, I am not going to have to depend on the scope coming back on time.  Same goes for all my rifles used for anything important: I either have a back-up scope sighted in for it, or I have spare scope or two lying in the safe that can go onto any rifle.

Now these spare or backup scopes do not have to be anything fancy.  They just have to hold zero.  In my case, I have Sightron S2 3-9x42, Sightron S1 3-9x40 and Burris Compact 4x20 as my spare scopes.  I have used all three for quite a while on a number of rifles and they have never changed zero on me.

My primary scopes tend to be a bit more expensive, but my back-up scope can also do the job in a pinch.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2008 at 19:48
Mojo View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar
All Mojo

Joined: December/26/2007
Location: Wisconsin
Status: Offline
Points: 482
Sounds to me like a work in progress.  It has not been that long since the breakoff, and based on previous posts, the company plans on some growth, which would need to include the US of A.  Not having a service center for their product line here, would not be a very good business move on their part, and I really cannot imagine them failing to provide one here in fairly short order.  They seemed to have been pretty cagey about not letting on to Swarovski all that their R&D department has come up with, so they have been planning their move for quite some time now.  That would include a service center for their lineup in the United States as part of the planning process.  They also have a history of a quality product.  Anyone having problems with their new Kahles?  Their customer base will let them know about it post haste if they fail to get their act together.  
 
MOJO    
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2008 at 21:00
jackG View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: November/27/2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 141
Koshkin - great point.  My current hunting rifle is a Tikka T3 Lite  SS in 270 WSM.  It is providing transporation for a Sightron Sll, 3-9X42, which is a pretty nice scope, especially for the price.  I used it to fill several tags last year in open field hunting and it worked very well.  So, it would certainly serve as a backup when I get it replaced.
 
I took a look at the Zeiss scopes.  The Conquest line is not, as I understand it, equivalent to the Kahles CL.  However a 4.5-14X50 can be had new, for $50 more that what a 4-12X42 CL Kahles can be gotten from the SWFA Sample list. 
 
If I'm going to drop that kind of money, I wonder if the Ziess is a "settle-for," compared to the Kahles CL.  When I think about it, it's a pretty happy dilemma, because one way or another, I'm ramping up the glass on that rifle.  I've not ruled the Swarovski American, but I'm not finding anything over 10X on the sample list that I can justify costwise, at this point. 
 
I was looking for a power upgrade over the Sightron.  Someone suggested to a friend, that a higher quality scope in say 9X or 10X would work as well as a higher powered scope with lower quality glass.  I have no way of knowing whether that suggestion has merit of not.    I may just go  for the Kahles and see what happens. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2008 at 21:14
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 10961
I think that Kahles CL is a better scope than the Conquest.  Over the course of the last few months I have played with five different Kahles scopes bought from the Sample List and I have been very happy with them.  Warranty considerations, as I said, are not a major concern for me, so I would go with Kahles.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2008 at 23:40
nitis View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: December/29/2007
Status: Offline
Points: 100
sinc eI started this mess i guess I better chime in
 
If legacy is a wholaler they sure were eager to sell me a scope that they did not even have their specs down correctly?
 
when I called Kahles 800 # on the website it gave me the 3 to legacy for warranty work and they had no knowledge of what kind of warranty would be provided on scopes off of samplelist as he said he has never heard of them or swfa
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/17/2008 at 03:14
crispycritter View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: July/30/2004
Status: Offline
Points: 115
Originally posted by Focus Focus wrote:

Warranties are nothing to worry about.......till you need em'.....than they become most important. 
 

   Focus
 
 
Bingo.
 
I've noticed that most who shrug off questionable warranties and customer service are the ones who go through scopes like they do underwear. It's no big deal when the scope will be someone else's problem next year. Not all, but most.
 
For those who plan on using the scope for many years to come, it's a valid concern.
 
 It would be a bummer to go from a nice scope to a BSA due to no warranty and not being so rich and famous in the future.Big%20Grin
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/17/2008 at 08:27
Ed Connelly View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
God of no Chihuahua

Joined: December/16/2007
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 24220

WHAT are you guys DOING to these scopes? I've never had a scope fail. Are they just FLYING APART? ( Maybe it's all those OLD, CRAPPY thirty year old scopes that I've been using!! Those DARN things just WORK ALL THE TIME!!!)  hee hee  Wink         --Ed   

Do you fellers worry about GUN warranties? Hiding

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/17/2008 at 08:46
Mojo View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar
All Mojo

Joined: December/26/2007
Location: Wisconsin
Status: Offline
Points: 482
Nitis:
 
Sorry that you got one of those "it's not my job" people over at Legacy.  Did you ask for a supervisor, who might have helped you more? 
 
For those people that have concerns about warranty work, service work, or maybe not purchasing the product because of concerns about a warranty, or service work, I would suggest that you might want to register your concerns with Kahles, in Vienna,  Austria, directly, instead of getting all worked up about it.  SamC got an answer from Birgit via e-mail on the KX model, did he not?   Generally, an actual polite letter to them would be a lot more effective, and I would bet a scope cap that you would receive a very nice letter, answering your concerns!  If you can afford a Kahles scope, you can afford the stamp money to Vienna.  And if you do not want to take the time to write the letter, I guess you really were not all that interested in the product? 
 
MOJO   
 
  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/17/2008 at 08:50
HuntMaster View Drop Down
Optics Professional
Optics Professional
Avatar

Joined: March/19/2007
Location: St Stephens,Al.
Status: Offline
Points: 990
Originally posted by Ed Connelly Ed Connelly wrote:

WHAT are you guys DOING to these scopes? I've never had a scope fail. Are they just FLYING APART? ( Maybe it's all those OLD, CRAPPY thirty year old scopes that I've been using!! Those DARN things just WORK ALL THE TIME!!!)  hee hee  Wink         --Ed   

Do you fellers worry about GUN warranties? Hiding

 

 
True. I have ~ 30 rifles and a few more scopes, and I've never had a scope to fail. That's from a 30.00 up to 1200.00 scope. But I have had guns that needed to go to the smith.
 Don't take me wrong - I am not bashing anyone - but I warranted a scope and a pair of binos out of my own pocket trying to please someone who admitted they dropped from a tree stand. I won't do that again. I will leave it up to the factory. I am dealing with someone who ruined a 3-9x56 by torquing the rings down until they touched, which collapsed the tube and erector (steel) assembly.  


Edited by HuntMaster - February/17/2008 at 08:50
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/17/2008 at 08:58
Mojo View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar
All Mojo

Joined: December/26/2007
Location: Wisconsin
Status: Offline
Points: 482
Ed has been out of bed with his morning coffee, raising a ruckus on this forum before 5:30 AM!!!  I'll bet another scope cap that nobody beats Ed out to the sagebrush on opening morning!  What say you , Ed?
 
MOJO
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/17/2008 at 09:05
Ed Connelly View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
God of no Chihuahua

Joined: December/16/2007
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 24220
Yes!! I've got to get out there to throw those scope covers off before anyone else!!!  HA!Wink
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/17/2008 at 09:19
Mojo View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar
All Mojo

Joined: December/26/2007
Location: Wisconsin
Status: Offline
Points: 482
I have not been a member of this forum long enough to find out what happens when Ed and Big Squeeze get going on a hot topic at the same time, but it must be out of this world! 
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  1 2>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Similar Threads: "what up with Kahles"
Subject Author Forum Replies Last Post
Kahles CL or Kahles C for Low Light tarboroheel1 Rifle Scopes 6 2/7/2007 8:11:39 AM
Kahles C vs Kahles CL TheDrakeTaker Rifle Scopes 2 8/20/2007 1:53:38 PM
Kahles Cl vs Kahles KX lgetz Rifle Scopes 8
Swarovski vs Kahles 1.5-6 ccoker Rifle Scopes 17
kahles c 1.1-4 questions ccoker Rifle Scopes 8
Kahles hkv0501 Rifle Scopes 6
Kahles binocular, whats the skinny?? billiam13 Binoculars 6
Kahles CSX 3-12x56mm Decided to Keep Smileydawg1 Optics For Sale 7
Kahles CSX 1.5-6x42 illuminated ccoker Optics For Sale 9
Kahles CL 3-10x50 Multi Zero ccoker Optics For Sale 5


This page was generated in 0.657 seconds.