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What should I get??? |
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Urimaginaryfrnd
MODERATOR Resident Redneck Joined: June/20/2005 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 14964 |
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Note: We have selected two loads here, the A191 which is the same as the Federal Match .300 WM 190gr and the new Mk248 Mod1 220gr load. The A191 has been around for a long time now and has been very effective over the years. The new heavier Mk248 is a more recent development designed specifically for longer range engagements. Bullet Drop (Inches)
Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - March/04/2013 at 22:19 |
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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger |
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Urimaginaryfrnd
MODERATOR Resident Redneck Joined: June/20/2005 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 14964 |
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6.5x284 Military Applications Note: The Black Hills 142gr was chosen as my preferred load for military applications. This load sends the 142gr match king at 2950fps and out performs the .300WM 190gr Match loads at long ranges. Black Hills 6.5x284 Norma Match 142gr Sierra Match King at 2950fps Bullet Drop (Inches)
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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger |
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Urimaginaryfrnd
MODERATOR Resident Redneck Joined: June/20/2005 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 14964 |
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7mm Rem Mag Military Applications Note: The HSM 168gr Match King load was choosen for my military application load because it uses the approved for combat Sierra Match King bullet and has really nice long range ballistics. HSM 7mm Remington Magnum - 168gr Sierra Match King HPBT at 2950fpsBullet Drop (Inches)
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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger |
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first_shot_kill>
Optics GrassHopper Joined: March/04/2013 Location: Minnesota Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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I would have to aim a lot higher than a telephone pole to shoot 1000 yards with my .22. :) I am already aiming 27-30 feet high (depending on ammo) just to shoot 300 yards! Then calculating wind speed and bullet travel time makes me have to aim even further off target. Boy do I love mil dots. :)Good point on casings not being available. Just to make it clear, I am not wanting (yet - wink wink) a rifle built for 1000+ yard shots. I just want a sub moa rifle that if I get the chance, has the capability of making a 1000 yard shot. I do understand this will not happen overnight. Thats not what I am expecting. I expect this to take many years. I am just starting now. For fun I will "build" a range on paper; choose a distance, wind(s), altitude, placement on earth, temperature, weather, my elevation compared to that of target, target speed if moving, etc. etc. etc... and try to figure balistics for a 308. I AM BY NO MEANS A MASTER AT THIS!!!! I just do this for fun to try and learn how it's done. I am a firm believer in "practice makes perfect", and I have to start somewhere.My reason for choosing 308: popular and cheap enough to still use for "plinking", still is quite accurate, easy to get balistics for, stuff like that. If you know of a better round that fits those descriptions, let me know.
Hope I don't come off as a dumb young kid wanting the impossible by way of impossible means. I truly do want to learn. This is a passion I have had for several years (just ask my family and friends) and am just now starting to really act on it. I have seriously either checked out from the library, borrowed, or bought every book I could find on the subject. I am NOT a "video game sniper" who thinks he knows how its done. Actually, I hate games like Call Of Duty because they are so unrealistic. Especially the sniping. You do not just line up a target in the scope, pull a trigger, and have a bullet travel in a straight line and hit the target instantly. Thats not how it works.
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Attack where they are unprepared, appear where you are unexpected.
Death is nothing. But to live defeated and without glory, that is to die every day. |
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first_shot_kill>
Optics GrassHopper Joined: March/04/2013 Location: Minnesota Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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My goal is not to look cool to anyone. It is a personal goal that I set a long time ago. Not to be cool, but to have done something that is hard to do. Just look at sports. Yes, there are those who just try to look cool, but then there are those who just want to be the best they can be at what they enjoy. I enjoy LR shooting, and want to be good at it. Thank you in advance to all those who help me arrive at my destination! :)
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Attack where they are unprepared, appear where you are unexpected.
Death is nothing. But to live defeated and without glory, that is to die every day. |
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Peddler
Optics God Joined: July/04/2012 Location: Oswego,NY Status: Offline Points: 13526 |
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Don't knock the 6.5 Creedmoor for hunting I bought one for my wife last year and it's a killer!!! Peddler |
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When you are dead, you don't know you are dead.It is difficult only for others.
It is the same when you are stupid. |
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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6.5 Creedmoor is an excellent LR choice!
I have no issues with the 6.5mm's as a hunting round. I've killed quite a few hogs and a couple deer with a .260 and never found its performance lacking. Granted, deer isn't exactly a test for bullets & cartridges, but decent sized hogs definitely are! I would place a big hog in the same class as elk in terms of toughness. |
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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Urimaginaryfrnd
MODERATOR Resident Redneck Joined: June/20/2005 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 14964 |
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Your initial question was "What should I get" You locked in on thinking .308 is the way to go the problem is you want to go past 800 yds which means you need to push the bullet faster that what .308 will push it. You get more velocity out of a 30-06 than a .308 and you can still find ammo possible even brass for 30-06 possibly several of the other calibers mentioned -- GO LOOK.
The 300 WSM would be my first choice with 300 Win Mag the second choice but that is because I shoot all of those 30 cal rifles at long range. Get past the idea that .308 is the ultimate go to bullet and accept the fact that more velocity is needed to do what you are asking. Recognize that the difference in cost between someone who reloads shooting a .308 VS shooting a 300 WSM is only pennies worth of powder once you have brass because you are using the same 190 to 200 gr bullet. Base which you select on what ammo brass and primers you can obtain because if you cant buy primers you might as well forget buying all of the rest of the reloading equipment unless you have a friend who will work a trade with you. You have to be realistic enough at this point to recognize that the supply of primers and live ammo are a problem that is likely not to change in the near future so if you can not buy either the live ammo or the primer brass powder and bullet to make the cartridge you only have an expensive paper weight not a rifle. Before you do anything else go buy a thousand or two if not more of either large rifle primers or large rifle magnum primers and a reloading book or go buy 200 rounds of ammo that will fit your caliber of choice or 200 rounds of brass. Now if you can find that today you are better off than 99% of the other guys out there looking for the same thing. Once you have determined exactly how screwed you are start looking for loaded 30-06 ammo which you might be able to still find and for some reason 280 Remmington brass seems to be abundent due to not too many guys shooting that caliber but it is a 7mm bullet on a 30-06 case and will do what you are looking to do. FIND AMMO OR FIND PRIMERS BRASS POWEDER & BULLETS --- THEN PICK CALIBER BASED ON WHAT YOU FIND. And you can forget .308 and .223 because everyone with high capacity mags is looking hard for that. |
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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger |
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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Although, I'd go 7WSM instead. I'd pick any 6.5 or 7mm over any .30 any day. You get waaaaayyy more on the business end in exchange for less on the butt end. But, if factory ammo availability is a deciding factor, it's hard to argue against the .300. |
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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supertool73
Optics God Superstool Joined: January/03/2008 Status: Offline Points: 11814 |
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For a off the shelf precision rifle the Remington milspec 5r is a great choice. They are typically around $1100 last I checked. A .308 will easily shoot to 1000 yards. Is it the best choice? No, but it will do it just fine. I shoot that far occasionally with my .308 and it has a 19" barrel on it, it will still be super sonic as well if you are using 175 grain bullets. At my elevation they will stay super sonic around 1100 yards. The 175s also make the transition to sub sonic without tumbling, where the 168s will not. I have shoot steel and paper with both to 1100 and most of the time the 168 when I hit were tumbling where the 175s always hit point first.
In the 5r they also have it in 300 WM. Obviously a better choice, but at the cost of recoil and more expensive ammo. I think a short action caliber would be your best choice. Even 500 and 600 yards is very challenging to learn the wind. 90% of my shooting is 600 yards and less, so I opted for a shorter barreled .308. For my uses it is wonderful. It will do the 1100 and 1200 yard stuff I want to do occasionally just fine. But it does the 600 yard and under stuff very well. I would love a .260, but I am heavily invested in the .308 caliber with my reloading components and tools so I stick with it. And the .308 does everything I want just fine. |
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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.
"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own." |
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first_shot_kill>
Optics GrassHopper Joined: March/04/2013 Location: Minnesota Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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Wow. Lots to think about. Thank you Urimaginaryfrnd so much for pointing out those reloading facts! Those facts have really put a new spin on the possibilities. I looked up reloading supplies, and 300 win mag is easy to get, 308 is impossible (you were right :), 7mm mag is there, but hard to find. Then as far as costs go, you were right again. Once I get set up, its basically the same price to shoot a 300 as a 308. My only concern is barrel life. Is that something to consider?
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Attack where they are unprepared, appear where you are unexpected.
Death is nothing. But to live defeated and without glory, that is to die every day. |
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first_shot_kill>
Optics GrassHopper Joined: March/04/2013 Location: Minnesota Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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Hey supertool73, what is your 308 group at 1200 yards? Should I just go with a 300 win mag?
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Attack where they are unprepared, appear where you are unexpected.
Death is nothing. But to live defeated and without glory, that is to die every day. |
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SVT_Tactical
MODERATOR Chief Sackscratch Joined: December/17/2009 Location: NorthCackalacky Status: Offline Points: 31233 |
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http://www.6mmbr.com/gailmcmbreakin.html - read this about barrel life, specifically mentions the 300 win mag
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"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln
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first_shot_kill>
Optics GrassHopper Joined: March/04/2013 Location: Minnesota Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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What do you all think of this in 300? http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Centerfire-Rifles/Bolt-Action%7C/pc/104792580/c/105522480/sc/105523380/Savage174-Arms-Tactical-Rifles/706921.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fshooting-centerfire-rifles-bolt-action%2F_%2FN-1102332%2B4294751770%2FNe-4294751770%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_105523380%3FWTz_l%3DSBC%253BMMcat104792580%253Bcat105522480%26WTz_st%3DGuidedNav%26WTz_stype%3DGNU&WTz_l=SBC%3BMMcat104792580%3Bcat105522480%3Bcat105523380
Know any other good places to look at rifles?
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Attack where they are unprepared, appear where you are unexpected.
Death is nothing. But to live defeated and without glory, that is to die every day. |
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first_shot_kill>
Optics GrassHopper Joined: March/04/2013 Location: Minnesota Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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1000 rounds for a 300. Sounds about right.Thanks!
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Attack where they are unprepared, appear where you are unexpected.
Death is nothing. But to live defeated and without glory, that is to die every day. |
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supertool73
Optics God Superstool Joined: January/03/2008 Status: Offline Points: 11814 |
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I have never shot groups at 1200 yards. Just hitting the target period at that distance is an accomplishment.
I have shot 1/2 MOA out to 700 yards with 5 shot groups. |
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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.
"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own." |
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first_shot_kill>
Optics GrassHopper Joined: March/04/2013 Location: Minnesota Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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Thats impressive! Where did you learn to shoot? Are you looking for students? :)
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Attack where they are unprepared, appear where you are unexpected.
Death is nothing. But to live defeated and without glory, that is to die every day. |
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supertool73
Optics God Superstool Joined: January/03/2008 Status: Offline Points: 11814 |
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I have spent lots of money taking classes, and lots more practicing on my own. I don't consider myself that great of a shooter, just a hobby I enjoy.
I have been taking classes at Front Sight in Nevada since 2004. I try to get to a few per year. |
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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.
"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own." |
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first_shot_kill>
Optics GrassHopper Joined: March/04/2013 Location: Minnesota Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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I have heard lots of good things about Front Sight.
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Attack where they are unprepared, appear where you are unexpected.
Death is nothing. But to live defeated and without glory, that is to die every day. |
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3 Tuns
Optics Apprentice Joined: June/28/2011 Status: Offline Points: 60 |
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If you are serious about this project you might find a used benchrest rifle that has had most of the good modifications (stock, bedding, trigger, etc.) and is built around a target action. BR guys are always looking to upgrade their equipment to compete. It can be a bunch cheaper than having one built, and light years ahead of factory rifles. Sometimes there are good quality rigs for sale at reasonable prices. Check the classifieds on the benchrest forums.
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