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What Rings and Bases to use with Bushnell Elite sc

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/06/2012 at 15:16
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Hello

I just picked up a new Bushnell Elite model E3940 3-9x40, which is an upgraded version of model Bushnell Elite 4200 I believe?

I have read that it is important to go with "best glass you can afford and spend less on the rifle if you have to" now is it also just as important to get the best bases and rings I can afford?

I'm planning to mount this up on Savage Axis bolt action rifle in .223, what brand/model scope rings and bases do you recommend for this set up and why?

PS. Im completely new to bolt action rifles and scopes, I will be using this set up system for target paper shooting up to 300 yards, then eventually want to get a bigger caliber rifle and do some deer hunting in the future..

Thanks
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/06/2012 at 16:17
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DNZ Lightweight 1 DNZ Lightweight 1" Scopemount
Stock # - DNZ50200
  • Savage Axis
  • Savage Edge
  • Black
  • Low
  • 1"

DNZ makes a good mount.
If they had the Talley Lightweight Aluminum Scopemounts for that rifle I would say go with them.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/06/2012 at 16:44
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In general, is it better to go with 2 in 1 base/rings or separate? I was thinking if I could get picatinny  rings, then I would be able to use them for other rifles.

What are the pros and cons to one piece vs separate rings and one piece base vs 2 piece bases?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/06/2012 at 17:09
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http://swfa.com/Talley-Lightweight-Aluminum-Scopemounts-C746.aspx
I would prefer the Talley Lightweight ringmounts over the DNZ because each Talley has 4 screws to DNZ's  two screws and I beleive that makes them more solid.  However Tactical scopes are typically mounted on a picatinny rail.  I would  probably use TPS rail and tactical rings if you want to work with the rail.  http://swfa.com/TPS-Mounts-C2705.aspx  If you want top of the line:  Badger Ordnance and Aadland seem the most solid, strongest designs.
 
The advantage of a one piece base like the DNZ is that the front and back are always correctly in line where with a two piece base there is a potential that the the front and back could be out of alignment.
I have had very good luck with Talley light weight rings on hunting rifles and I typically use Badger Ordnance rings on tactical rifles except the ones where I want a quick release mount then I use La Rue but Bobro is also a fine choice for quick release.  These clamp on a rail and moving a lever alows it to release when desired but it is well enough built to return to zero when placed back at the same position on the rail.  Most tactical rings are made for 30 mm scopes so look at the super sniper  3-9x42
SWFA SS 3-9x42 Tactical 30mm Riflescope SWFA SS 3-9x42 Tactical 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - SS39X42MQ
  • Matte
  • Patented First Focal Plane Mil-Quad Reticle
  • 30mm
  • OK for .50 cal
  • 0.1 MRAD
$599.95 
SWFA Precision Optic 30mm Mount SWFA Precision Optic 30mm Mount
Stock # - SWFA201300
  • Low
  • Slightly Forward
$209.95 


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - February/06/2012 at 17:18
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/06/2012 at 17:09
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Originally posted by alee18 alee18 wrote:

In general, is it better to go with 2 in 1 base/rings or separate? I was thinking if I could get picatinny  rings, then I would be able to use them for other rifles.

What are the pros and cons to one piece vs separate rings and one piece base vs 2 piece bases?

Yes! Picatinny rails are wonderful for multiple scopes, better scope placement, and theoretically, a stronger base. 
Only down side I can think of is, that it's slightly more cumbersome to load a one piece rail versus a two piece job, especially with gloves on.     
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/06/2012 at 21:49
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So they Talley lightweight 2 in 1 combo do not make a set that will work with Savage Axis? Thanks
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/06/2012 at 22:59
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If memory serves, you can get by with low rings for a 40mm Elite, but mediums will work well.
 
One- piece bases and/or complete one- piece base/rings are a great concept and eliminate a lot of problems, but are useful only on the same model rifle. Picatinny/Weaver style clamp- on rings can be moved between rifles, by changing only the bases for each model. Stay away from cheap aluminum clamp- on Weaver/Picatinny rings, they will eventually lose zero and/or break.

 While DNZ advertises their one- piece units as worry- free for alignment (and they are,) I've found that the inside edges on DNZ I've encountered do need to be lightly buffed to take down micro- edges which aren't apparent to the naked eye and which can leave a light mark on a scope. You don't need to go so far as to do a full 'lapping' on them, but a little work is required. Otherwise, I think they are strong, worthwhile mounts.

While Burris doesn't make a low ring or a 'tactical' ring in their Signature line, Signature rings are really neat and eliminate a lot of scope mounting problems, such as misalignment and ring marks. Different inserts can be used for elevation and to correct such things as receiver holes out of alignment. I do think that the Signature Zee base mount screw could be better.

Double dovetail rings in a one or two- piece base are strong and beautiful, but require painstaking installation.

By the way, a bigger caliber might be 'better' for deer hunting, but lots of people hunt with .223.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/06/2012 at 23:11
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Originally posted by Alan Robertson Alan Robertson wrote:

If memory serves, you can get by with low rings for a 40mm Elite, but mediums will work well.
 
One- piece bases and/or complete one- piece base/rings are a great concept and eliminate a lot of problems, but are useful only on the same model rifle. Picatinny/Weaver style clamp- on rings can be moved between rifles, by changing only the bases for each model. Stay away from cheap aluminum clamp- on Weaver/Picatinny rings, they will eventually lose zero and/or break.

 While DNZ advertises their one- piece units as worry- free for alignment (and they are,) I've found that the inside edges on DNZ I've encountered do need to be lightly buffed to take down micro- edges which aren't apparent to the naked eye and which can leave a light mark on a scope. You don't need to go so far as to do a full 'lapping' on them, but a little work is required. Otherwise, I think they are strong, worthwhile mounts.

While Burris doesn't make a low ring or a 'tactical' ring in their Signature line, Signature rings are really neat and eliminate a lot of scope mounting problems, such as misalignment and ring marks. Different inserts can be used for elevation and to correct such things as receiver holes out of alignment. I do think that the Signature Zee base mount screw could be better.

Double dovetail rings in a one or two- piece base are strong and beautiful, but require painstaking installation.

By the way, a bigger caliber might be 'better' for deer hunting, but lots of people hunt with .223.


Great info, Im so unsure of whats the best combo to go with for the money. I did hours of research on the scope and conducted that Bushnell 4200 or new model Elite E3940 is the best scope for under $200, beats Leupold VXII, Nikon buckmaster and some others in the price range.

Now Im doing my research on the bases and rings. I come to find that Burris Signature Zee rings are very popular. I like the idea of plastic inserts. Previously, I used a strip of black electric tape inside the ring to avoid a possibility of scratching my red dot sight on a .22LR. However, Im not sure if that would be appropriate method for .223.

Can I use the Burris plastic inserts with Zee rings in order to use low rather than medium height signature zee rings?

Also what would be good bases for the Zee rings?




 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/06/2012 at 23:29
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I had a DNZ for my remington it had 4 screws to mount it. did the old ones only have 2?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2012 at 09:07
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The Burris Signature Zee rings are a great concept but, good luck getting your hands on any of them right now.
 
We have been waiting for them for a long time now.
I believe Burris had a "manufacturing issue" with thses rings, but this is all that was released to us.
 
The DNZ comes with 4 holes for the mounting screws. I had to run back in the warehouse and double check but all of them that I have worked with have 4 instead of 2.


Edited by dillon_h - February/07/2012 at 09:21
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2012 at 12:35
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AFAIK, DNZ Game Reaper mounts have 4 screws to attach to rcvr and 2 screws per ring. Their Freedom Reaper (tactical) mounts have 4 holes per ring and may or may not be bolt- on to rcvr, as some are Picatinny mount.... at least, all that I've had or seen.

Originally posted by alee18 alee18 wrote:


Great info, Im so unsure of whats the best combo to go with for the money. I did hours of research on the scope and conducted that Bushnell 4200 or new model Elite E3940 is the best scope for under $200, beats Leupold VXII, Nikon buckmaster and some others in the price range.

Now Im doing my research on the bases and rings. I come to find that Burris Signature Zee rings are very popular. I like the idea of plastic inserts. Previously, I used a strip of black electric tape inside the ring to avoid a possibility of scratching my red dot sight on a .22LR. However, Im not sure if that would be appropriate method for .223.

Can I use the Burris plastic inserts with Zee rings in order to use low rather than medium height signature zee rings?

Also what would be good bases for the Zee rings?




 
Howdy alee18,
You've obviously done your homework, as the Elites are great scopes and definitely better choices than the others you've mentioned.

As far as bases, Burris tactical steel 2- piece bases (see pic.) are strong, precise, inexpensive and are thin in height, which allows lower mounting of your scope. The Burris bases also have several Picatinny slots, increasing their mounting versatility, an advantage which one- piece ring/mounts do not share.
Burris Signature Pos- Align inserts only work with Signature rings, so you couldn't use them with standard Zee rings.
The most important points for scope mounting height are barrel clearance, clearance for bolt handles (and any accoutrements like iron sights and lens caps) and eye- relief/placement with a good cheek weld to stock. On this particular mount/rifle combo, I can close my eyes, mount the rifle and when opened, my eye is centered in the eyebox, or close enough.

Here are some pics of medium Signature Zee rings mounting a 44mm objective scope. You can see the Pos- Align inserts protruding from rings. The unmounted scope is a Bushnell Elite 4200 40mm for comparison. The Bushnell is shown slid towards the buttstock a bit, in what would be approximately the correct mounting location in regard to the Zeiss, because of a difference in eye relief.  Note: The Bushnell is also shorter o.a.l. and would mount eyepiece correctly about .2" rearward of Zeiss. As you can see, the 4200's objective bell is moved a bit further up the barrel's taper, so would have similar barrel clearance. Also, The 4200 would require the front ring to be moved rearward one notch in the Picatinny base to avoid crushing the objective bell.
It does appear that low rings would work ok with the 4200 (on this rifle.)




Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2012 at 16:45
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Thank you for clearing up many questions for me, I get everything except this:

"Note: The Bushnell is also shorter o.a.l. and would mount eyepiece correctly about .2" rearward of Zeiss"

What does it mean? :)

So since there are no low sig zee rings, should I compromise for low zee rings, but then I read that I need to do lapping on them? I wish I could see the clearance difference on Savage Axis rifle with low and Medium rings.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2012 at 17:00
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OAL means over all length. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2012 at 18:02
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Sorry for the confusing answer... The 4200 has 3.3" eye relief vs. the Conquest's 3.5" eye relief, so would need to be mounted .2" closer to the buttstock than the Zeiss, for the same relationship. The pic makes it look like the 4200 is moved further back, only because the Bushnell is shorter in over all length.

Since Signature Zee's aren't available (please, Burris, hope you are fixing that crossbolt,) check out these SWFA tactical rings- they come in low mount, they're hell for stout, inexpensive and have inserts to keep from marring your scope: http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-Tac-30mm-1-Rings-P47905.aspx
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2012 at 18:07
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Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

OAL means over all length. 


I guess I could have looked this up myself.. haha thanks
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2012 at 18:13
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Originally posted by Alan Robertson Alan Robertson wrote:

Sorry for the confusing answer... The 4200 has 3.3" eye relief vs. the Conquest's 3.5" eye relief, so would need to be mounted .2" closer to the buttstock than the Zeiss, for the same relationship. The pic makes it look like the 4200 is moved further back, only because the Bushnell is shorter in over all length.

Since Signature Zee's aren't available (please, Burris, hope you are fixing that crossbolt,) check out these SWFA tactical rings- they come in low mount, they're hell for stout, inexpensive and have inserts to keep from marring your scope: http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-Tac-30mm-1-Rings-P47905.aspx


That makes sense, you actually explain it very well. Normally when Im in the learning curve of something completely new, nothing makes sense to me at first. Maybe Im kinda slow :)

I like the way Burris rings look more, and there seems to be plenty of places online that stock them. My concern is if I go with Zee lows, will I have enough space to clear the barrel and have enough room to easily operate the bolt without accidentally bumping the scope if I work the action fast?


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2012 at 18:39
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You should look at Talley light weight one piece...they have the base mounts as part of the ring assembly.  It reduces the number of things that might loosen up under use.  It also has a very clean look to it.  I use Talley's on all my long sticks including the one with my elite 4200 on it!
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Originally posted by budperm budperm wrote:

You should look at Talley light weight one piece...they have the base mounts as part of the ring assembly.  It reduces the number of things that might loosen up under use.  It also has a very clean look to it.  I use Talley's on all my long sticks including the one with my elite 4200 on it!


Yeah I have heard about these guys all over the place and mostly all positive. However, Im not sure if they make em for Savage Axis? I see that there are tons of different base mounts for Savage model 10 through 16 and 110-116, will any of these also work for Axis model?

Thanks
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2012 at 19:05
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Truthfully I don't know about the Axis but a call to either SWFA or Talley themselves will answer that immediately.  I have 3 savages and a Browning A-bolt all with Talleys!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2012 at 01:26
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Does any one own or know anything about Pentax Gameseeker 5X 3-15x50 scope? I never even heard about this brand before, however I stumbled on this scope at amazing price $100 compared to retail price around $240.. is this worth buying to replace the Bushnell Elite that I paid almost 2x more? Thanks
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2012 at 03:09
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Now, you see? You're getting the bug... watch out, or you'll never be satisfied. Next thing you know, you won't be able to get by without a Diavari.  Actually, one can over- analyze and start second guessing decisions made.

You will get the most and best information if you start a new thread in the rifle scope section and ask your question there, concerning Pentax and the Gameseeker vs. 3940... I'll just leave it at that.


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Would be best if you start a new thread about the gameseeker.  I forget who makes it but know its a good buy for the money but not on the same level as the Elite series...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2012 at 09:51
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SAVAGE ARMS SAY:
"The Savage Axis (formerly called the Edge) uses the same 2-piece mounts as the 10/110 Accutrigger models"
I woluld say it has to be  930725  You can also  CALL SWFA and ask them they should have a chart to go by.  If I had to guess I would suspect it is the round reciever as all the accutrigger rifles I have bought in the last several years have been Round Reciever Accutrigger guns.
Talley Lightweight Aluminum 1 Talley Lightweight Aluminum 1" Scopemount
Stock # - 930725
  • Savage Model 10 New Round Action
  • Savage Model 12 New Round Action
  • Savage Model 14 New Round Action
  • Savage Model 16 New Round Action
  • Stevens 200
  • Stiller Predator
  • Thompson Center Venture
  • Matte
  • Low
  • 1"
$41.95 
 


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - February/08/2012 at 09:57
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Talley says: http://www.talleymanufacturing.com/cgi-bin/public_controller.cgi?view=products&category_recnum=6 :
930725        One Inch  Savage w/ Accutrigger (Low)
 If you want more room to mount flip up lens caps try medium.
940725 1" Savage w/ Accutrigger (Med)


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - February/08/2012 at 10:07
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These are the medium height rings that fit it if you want flip up lens caps:
Talley Lightweight Aluminum 1 Talley Lightweight Aluminum 1" Scopemount
Stock # - 940725
  • Savage Model 10 New Round Action
  • Savage Model 12 New Round Action
  • Savage Model 14 New Round Action
  • Savage Model 16 New Round Action
  • Stevens 200
  • Stiller Predator
  • Thompson Center Venture
  • Matte
  • Medium
  • 1"
$41.95 
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