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What is Vortex Thinking?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2012 at 17:10
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In regards to the Viper HS 4-16x44, which looks like a very nice scope to me........This is a 20oz, 30mm tube with only 12 MOA or so per turn, and only 50MOA total adjustment.  I have more adjustment than that available to me in my Conquest, VX3, Swaro A, and FX3.  Why would Vortex limit this adjustment range in a heavier,30mm tube package?  Anyone venture a guess?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2012 at 17:23
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Well, that scope is aimed at "set it and forget it" hunters. capped, low profile turrets. The 30mm tube was probably chosen for two main reasons: People want it and it probably saves manufacturing costs when the rest of the HS line is 30mm.

Dialers would likely prefer the HS LR, which has 75 MOA total adjustment and a whopping 24 MOA in a single turn. 1/2 MOA makes sense in a LR hunting application, IMO.

20 ounces isn't exactly a heavy scope either. Not light, but not too heavy.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2012 at 17:26
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Why not just use the same adjustments throughout that particular scope line?  Just an entry level, lower cost thing?  A 30mm tube with minimal adjustment is a moot point IMO, but maybe that's just me.  Yeah, that 1/2MOA and 24 per turn is interesting.  Wonder what the glass in comparable to.  I've heard a Conquest, which is a good thing. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2012 at 17:42
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I don't want to get another locked thread going with a glass discussion, but I have been checking out every HS I can get my hands on (the LRs and PSTs are like ghosts right now), and the glass, to my eyes, is very similar to VX-3, and a hair's width away from a Conquest. That is, I think it is really nice.

Like many recent Vortex products they offer a whole lot of value.

On a set and forget scope, I would prefer 1/4 moa, and I wouldn't care too much about total adjustment, but now that I am thinking about it, 50 moa is plenty for most uses.

I should have a PST in hand by the weekend.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2012 at 18:20
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Ok you have 50 MOA total lets say half is above so for my rifle 24.9 moa takes it to 800 yds now granted everyone wants a thousand yard scope which they will probably shoot 1000 yds - umm never.  Granted some will but most wont ever shoot over 300 yds.  When you take reality into consideration scope manufacturers understand that the average distance a police sniper shoots is under 80 yds and the average distance a deer hunter shoots is under 200 yds. True that is not everyone but for joe average to grab a new rifle mount a thousand yard scope and go out to shoot game at 800 + yds just is not going to happen.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2012 at 23:36
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I would say it is both of what BB and Ufrnd said.  And if you really need to get to 1000, you could put a 20 MOA rail on the gun and you will be fine.  Do I like having more adjustment on my scopes?  Sure, but only a couple of my rifles (22-250 and 300 WM) really make use of it for long range practice.  My 270 gets shot out to 700-800 now and then but not much.  It makes sense based on what the other two have said.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/22/2012 at 07:12
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Is the HS glass noticeably better than the regular Viper line i.e., 3-9x40?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/22/2012 at 07:23
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Originally posted by MikeStaten MikeStaten wrote:

Is the HS glass noticeably better than the regular Viper line i.e., 3-9x40?
What is noticeable to one may not be to another, but the HS scopes I have seen are better to my eyes.  The originals were pretty good on their own.  My little 2-7X32 is one of my favorites.
 
I have a brand new 4.5-14X50 Mark 4 in the box, and a 4-16X50 PST on the way.  I will compare them thoroughly over the next few weeks.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/22/2012 at 08:25
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I understand completely what you guys are saying.  I don't need that much adjustment either unless I'm fooling around with yardage dials.  It still makes zero sense to me to put "1" type adjustments" in a 30mm tube, regardless.  No big deal anyway, just thought it unusual.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/22/2012 at 09:16
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Originally posted by Bitterroot Bulls Bitterroot Bulls wrote:

Well, that scope is aimed at "set it and forget it" hunters. capped, low profile turrets. The 30mm tube was probably chosen for two main reasons: People want it and it probably saves manufacturing costs when the rest of the HS line is 30mm.

Dialers would likely prefer the HS LR, which has 75 MOA total adjustment and a whopping 24 MOA in a single turn. 1/2 MOA makes sense in a LR hunting application, IMO.

20 ounces isn't exactly a heavy scope either. Not light, but not too heavy.
Excellent They make what the public wants. There is actually a lot more people that do this. Keep all of your pre-designed 1" internals and slap them in a 30mm tube. Most people would charge more for it to. That is why we say a 30mm tube alone won't make it brighter. You have to take advantage of that space inside. I also would agree and say the glass is up there with the VX-3 and not to far behind the conquest.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/22/2012 at 09:27
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An advantage that 30mm tubes have needs mentioned here. They are generally stronger than 1"  tubes.

I look forward to Matt's on hand observations.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/22/2012 at 10:21
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30mm tubes with 1" guts. Rarely covered on optics forums. Good thread, Gents.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/22/2012 at 21:22
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I have the 2.5-10x44 version with BDC reticle (up for trade in the classifieds by the way Big Smile).  It has 12MOA per rotation and I got 361 clicks bottom to top....not bad. Very good glass for what its worth coming from me...never had a scope better than an FX3 or Conquest, its on par with either.

Josh

Viper HS 2.5-10x44

Viper HS 2.5-10x44

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/23/2012 at 14:25
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Originally posted by Bitterroot Bulls Bitterroot Bulls wrote:

I have a brand new 4.5-14X50 Mark 4 in the box, and a 4-16X50 PST on the way.  I will compare them thoroughly over the next few weeks.
 
Here are the three scopes that will be getting a good side-by-side trouncing over the next few weeks:
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/24/2012 at 21:52
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cant wait to hear about it
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/24/2012 at 22:49
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me too...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/25/2012 at 20:41
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You can see who wants attention ---->   Vortex: "My package is bigger than yours"Roll on Floor Laughing
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/25/2012 at 21:10
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Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

You can see who wants attention ---->   Vortex: "My package is bigger than yours"Roll on Floor Laughing
Yeah, for a second I thought there were two scopes in there.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/26/2012 at 11:00
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Bitterroot, can you see the reticle on that Vortex plenty good at dusk and dusk thirty?  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/26/2012 at 18:59
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JGRaider,

My best quess is that the erector controls field of view so they made the scope with a larger field of view and a 30 mm tube still allows ample elevation and windage.

Just my best quess.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/26/2012 at 20:14
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Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

Bitterroot, can you see the reticle on that Vortex plenty good at dusk and dusk thirty?  
So far so good.
 
The illumination makes it a non-issue, but even non-illuminated it is not much of a problem so far.  The reticle is one of the things I really like about it, so far.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/27/2012 at 19:31
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Bitterroot Bulls-

What are your initial impressions of the PST. Mainly of the reticle in low light, weight, ext. How do you think it would compare to a VX3 4.5-14x40 CDS?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/27/2012 at 20:05
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Originally posted by mil169 mil169 wrote:

Bitterroot Bulls-

What are your initial impressions of the PST. Mainly of the reticle in low light, weight, ext. How do you think it would compare to a VX3 4.5-14x40 CDS?
Truely comparing apples to oranges here the PST is a tactical scope the VX3 CDS is a hunting scope with low profile knobs that one can dial in correction with and have engraved marks set in hundred yards. While a similar idea if you are hunting and dont want clunky knobs because they catch on brush and can get dammaged in a saddle holster etc the CDS is low profile and hunt friendly where the PST is a far better choice for target or tactical work and is not really aimed at hunting the way their HS series is.
 
Also I prefer 30mm tube scopes it would be nice not to have to deal with two different sizes of rings so I go 30mm when I can.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/27/2012 at 21:40
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mil169,

I am taking notes.  There will be a comprehensive evaluation.
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