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WHAT IS THE BEST COMBAT, LEO, RIFLE SCOPE

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Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/27/2009 at 16:07
Wow, I step out for a few minutes and this happens?


My opinion, again - as if another opinion is needed or helpful.

1.  .223 ain't ideal for 6 yards.
2.  .223 ain't ideal for 800 yards.
3.  Get 2 optics - or better define what is most important.
4.  Ft. Benning sucks.  Hard. It ain't called VD for noth'in!
5.  Talk is cheap, eventually you gotta make a decision.
6.  A poor plan well executed is better than a great plan not executed - Custer not withstanding.
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tombirdman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/27/2009 at 16:20
Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

Originally posted by 338LAPUASLAP 338LAPUASLAP wrote:

I again would reply that a Doctor mount reflex could be  used if you thought you would need it for CQ but I would not want to say they work for daily use and abuse.  I will shut up now as I am seemingly just not qualified on this.  Maybe when I get more post and can earn rank here in the OT.  I am not trying to be sarcastic but I have responded  to the original Users post with options and others PM's about the .308 and my  "limited" experience in taking targets from 6-800yrds.
 
C'mon 338. Your comments on this are HIGHLY respected. You are in the field using it, doing it... all honors, kudos, respect to you.  I've played around with some ACOG's, but never used one with "bad intent" and haven't used it enough to get a really good feel for it.  As I said, only play compared to your use.  My brief experience is it is a very good CQB optic.  The majority of posters here do not really have that "need" for one.  Based upon your comments, I am going to give it a strong look.  Thank you for your service and thank you for your candid comments.  I don't THINK any contradictory comments are based upon your lack of "creds", post time, etc. in the forum.  Perhaps only personal preference or lack of attention.  Stay safe over there.  God's speed to you.
Please don't feel that way!!!   I have really appreciated your posts!  They have been extremely helpfull to ME and I am sure others !!!
I am sorry I didn't say this sooner.  You really know your stuff!
 
Tom
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tombirdman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/27/2009 at 16:57
Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

Sierra  I think you nailed it.  Nothing really does a good job from 6 yds to 800 yds with a .223   (5.56mm).  Which is why I asked early on how the scope would be used and if he was Mil LE or Civ.  I suspect he is civilian desiring a nice scope for a rifle that he will take out and play with a little on the range and possibly hunt varmits or plink with and use for home defense if the red hoard comes over the hill.   I'm guessing price range to be under $1000.    Based on the idea that it will likely be used on the 100 and 200 yd range more than any other actual use I think a traditional optic with tactical knobs like the 3-9x42 Super Sniper is the best choice to achieve all around enjoyment and be able to dial in correction for extended distances probably out to a maximum of 600 yds with a 77 gr bullet. Past that is way too hopeful for anyone but the most experienced shooters.  The .223 is a truely pathetic little cartridge if you look at the energy it retains at distance and the balistic coefficient is not that great either both of which are important in long range use.   338 is obviously quite fond of the ACOG and they are worth their weight in gold in a fire fight which I dont forsee this guy ever being in.  The balistic reticles are perfectly matched to military ammo but civilians feed a wide variety of cartridges into their rifles so results will vary.  I   really like an ACOG as you dont have to turn it on, but I'm thinking this guy is better off with a scope with tactical / target knobs to play with even a 10x42 Super Sniper would let him play with it on the range and hunt it with significant accuracy.  If the rifle was for Police or Military Use illumination would be more important but civilians dont usually shoot at night  except to hunt preditors and hogs.  A traditional optic with a red dot riding piggy back makes some sense but if you cant point and hit stuff at 6 yds you need to buy a laser and attach that also.
WhackoYou are mostly, on the money about me!   Although my son and I, on occassion, serve dangerous warrants in flatlands Nebraska.  That's why I mentioned short range long range.
There are occassions where you sit off a distance and have to cover an are and for close range I would rather use a shotgun, hand gun or bullpup rifle.
 
I enjoy play and collecting also!!!
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tombirdman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tombirdman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/27/2009 at 17:06
Originally posted by Jon A Jon A wrote:

Where did you get those ballistics, 338?  There's something messed up with them.  You need to have some altitude and/or 120+ degrees for that bullet to remain supersonic to 900 yds.  You're showing it over 1400 fps at 1000 yds.  Something isn't right.

I know the the 5.56 is used at 1000 yds in competition, but mostly with 80-90 bullets that are singly loaded which I don't think fits with the OP's application. 

I'm not trying to be a downer, just trying to keep the OP's expectations realistic.

ILya, do let us know what you think of that 1-10.  I could see myself really liking one of those.
I am aware of what the 5.56 is capable of and what it's not but is what this country and nato use. 
 
If I were in a situation of a true sniper, distance, I wouldn't use 223 and I would use a fixed scope. 
 
I use a fixed HENSOLDT 10 x  with bdc in the nobs and on a 308.
 
TomCool
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tombirdman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/27/2009 at 17:18
What my thoughts are - now - on this topic are :
1.  I appreciate everyones oppinions and help !
2. Everyone has there own oppinion and knowledge !
3. It is all good reference material !
4. No one should get angry, just eat-up what knowledge we want and let the others enjoy the rest!
Thanks Again!
Tom
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/27/2009 at 19:38
It has been brought to my attention that some (from Ft. Benning or elsewhere) took my remark about Benning to be less than patriotic.  It definitely was not meant as such.

Those who have been to Ft. Benning, in general, have fond memories of not liking the place - or that has been my experience.

I spent a little time there and was very impressed with the men with whom I served and was most unimpressed with the locals on the poles and worst greasy fries I've ever paid to eat.

To those men and women serving our armed forces, both at Benning and abroad: you have my utmost respect and gratitude.


I don't know a single 5-jump chump that loves Benning, but we all feel great connectedness in relishing our bad memroies of the place.


Carry on.
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Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/28/2009 at 01:53
Tom if you are serving warrants you probably need to go with an ACOG for ruggedness and reliablility.  Probably this model.  For being in harms way 338Lapuaslap is correct that the ACOG is the right choice. Having said that realistic engagement distances are under 400 yds now that doesnt mean that the bullet wont go further or kill further but a 4x scope at 400 yds  is like open sights at 100.  This is suitable for entry and very good at the 50 to 200 yd distances which are more likely to be your cover distance and fast enough for entry team type use. Being illuminated and working on the bindon aiming concept it will target rapidly.  It will however never be as accurate as a scope like a 3-9x42 Super Sniper or other sniper type scope but it will be quicker.  And yes a guy in Afghanistan might use it to shoot 800yds but close air support would be better. I will say if you are covering from 800 yds away with a .223 I sure as hell wouldnt want to be the guy walking up to the door to serve the warrant now if you were at 50 yds that might be a different thing so be realistic.  Use heavy bullets at least 69 gr preferably 77 gr.  
Trijicon 4x32 Acog Rifle Scope .223 Red Chevron Trijicon 4x32 Acog Rifle Scope
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$1,144.95 
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Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - October/28/2009 at 01:57

"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
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BeltFed View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeltFed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/28/2009 at 15:45

+1 for the ACOG, now that I know what it will be used for. It has served me well.

Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeltFed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/28/2009 at 15:52
I don't like Ft Benning, but that's because they are moving the Armor Training Center and the armor collection from the Patton museum, from Ft. Knox to Ft. Benning Sad.
Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steelbenz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/28/2009 at 19:54
A friend who is retired army wants my son and I to go to fort benning to see all the cool stuff.
Not being an x ground pounder I may take him up on it. Question remmy 700 PSS .308 for 799.00
good deal or no? What says the crew?
"Don't argue with a fool! From a distance you can't really tell who's who!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tombirdman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/28/2009 at 20:51
BanditoI appreciate the table!
I shoot mostly 62gr green tip and 75gr for 1 in 7 twist barrels.  At 800yds I would rather have 308 on up but when your stuck in a situation you use what you have on hand.
like it or not 5.56 is the round, for other than snipers which makes the conversation about 5.56 pertinet-sp.
I,fully realize what the 5.56 is, and 800yds is a stretch of the imagination with crosswind, bullet weight, etc.  It would be mostly fire for effect and walk it in, if possible!
So yes, most shots are taken from 25yds to 300, at the longest, BUT!
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tombirdman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/29/2009 at 11:33
P.S.
 
 
I think I love you !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeltFed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/29/2009 at 14:02
Tombirdman, pay no attention to the grumpy old man.
I liked the pictures. I have a thing Lovefor AUGs.
 
Oh, and next to the ACOG, my next choice would be the Leupold Mk 4 1.5-5 with the BDC for you favorite round, but I think I said that.
Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tombirdman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/29/2009 at 19:21
Thank you for your words of encouragement.
 
I really apprecite it !
 
 
Tom
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/29/2009 at 19:33
Looking at all those weapons, one would think you are a societal misfit, perhaps a sociopath, an anti-anti-gun person, in other words, an undesireable in today's political climate... good thing you spoke those words of reconciliation...
Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tombirdman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/29/2009 at 19:55
Societal misfit - probably!   Damn proud of it!
Politically incorect>  YES
Ideal Citizen - YES
Good to my family, neighbors, friends and pets. Yes
Not normal - YES!  Damn proud of it!
I am just me and to old to change.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/29/2009 at 19:59
Good for you, Tom.  Don't EVER be normal... ( I think that's when you die...)
Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ghost Rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/29/2009 at 20:02
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

Wow, I step out for a few minutes and this happens?


My opinion, again - as if another opinion is needed or helpful.

1.  .223 ain't ideal for 6 yards.
2.  .223 ain't ideal for 800 yards.
3.  Get 2 optics - or better define what is most important.
4.  Ft. Benning sucks.  Hard. It ain't called VD for noth'in!
5.  Talk is cheap, eventually you gotta make a decision.
6.  A poor plan well executed is better than a great plan not executed - Custer not withstanding.
Good advise all the way around!
The other day I used a buddy's SPR all the way out to 800m with green tips. He has a 3-12 Horus Hawk with the H425 reticle. The hits (on Ivans)seem almost too easy all the way out with the 5mph full value wind.
Bronze Star w/"V"...down graded...Article 15,Section 8
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tombirdman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/30/2009 at 11:17
Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

Tom if you are serving warrants you probably need to go with an ACOG for ruggedness and reliablility.  Probably this model.  For being in harms way 338Lapuaslap is correct that the ACOG is the right choice. Having said that realistic engagement distances are under 400 yds now that doesnt mean that the bullet wont go further or kill further but a 4x scope at 400 yds  is like open sights at 100.  This is suitable for entry and very good at the 50 to 200 yd distances which are more likely to be your cover distance and fast enough for entry team type use. Being illuminated and working on the bindon aiming concept it will target rapidly.  It will however never be as accurate as a scope like a 3-9x42 Super Sniper or other sniper type scope but it will be quicker.  And yes a guy in Afghanistan might use it to shoot 800yds but close air support would be better. I will say if you are covering from 800 yds away with a .223 I sure as hell wouldnt want to be the guy walking up to the door to serve the warrant now if you were at 50 yds that might be a different thing so be realistic.  Use heavy bullets at least 69 gr preferably 77 gr.  
Trijicon 4x32 Acog Rifle Scope .223 Red Chevron Trijicon 4x32 Acog Rifle Scope
Stock # - TA31F
  • .223 Red Chevron
  • Free Lens Cleaning Pen w/ Purchase
  • Free Neoprene Scope Coat w/ Purchase
  • Free Flat Top Adapter w/ Purchase
$1,144.95 
Add Trijicon 4x32 Acog Rifle Scope to Cart
Thank you,
I appreciate your knowledge and advice!
I think you are 100% correct!
 
I was thinking of getting one with the Doc optic on top, just to add a little more to cqb, which to be honest, is probably about 80 to 90% of it.
Most shots are between 25 to 100 yards.  However I think 223 is, probably good out to 400yds. 
 
I was thinking of a ACOG model TA648Doc - although that may be to much magnification, that's where the Doc would step in.  Also thinking of an ACOG 4x, crosshair red illuminated with doc.
 
Again :
 
Thanks
 
Tom
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