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What is a Tactical Scope

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/21/2006 at 12:28
Mike McDonald View Drop Down
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Someone step up and give a definition to a word often discussed and used as a label in todays marketplace.

Is it:
a look
A standard of performance
Features
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/21/2006 at 20:28
longbow308 View Drop Down
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Well Mike i'll take a stab at it

tactical-A planed strategy or combat maneuver directed
by a force


scope-an instrument of fixed or variable power used
for viewing

tactical scope-I would gess most folks relate the two
words tactical and scope to law enforcement and military.
And the type of scope used by LE and MILITARY thay call
it a tactical scope.

The two words don't really don't go togather, tactical
meaning a action of tactics, or action of force in
combat. I would say it is part of the equipment use
by tactical units or teams on there weapons. There for
you have the word TACTICAL SCOPE.
I would pick a standard of proformance and it features.
mostly a lable.




Thats my stab it there Mike.

good shooten Brother!!!

   
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/22/2006 at 16:38
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/22/2006 at 23:08
ChrisGarrett View Drop Down
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Hi,

 

30mm tube or larger.

 

Turret type knobs w/o caps to lose.

 

Side focus for easier access.

 

MilDot/range estimation capable.

 

Illuminated reticle of whatever flavor.

 

If Fixed, between 10x and 20x

 

If Variable, between 4x and 25x

 

Objective greater than 40mm

 

Ruggedness of build.

 

Total elevation travel of 80-120+ moa.

 

Matte black finish.

 

Chris

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/23/2006 at 02:14
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A True Tactical scope IMO should be:

A serious precision optic made to increase your chances of hitting your target during battle

under extreme conditions and not fail you. If something failed it was you.

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/23/2006 at 08:19
Mike McDonald View Drop Down
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Good answers.  I don't really have one myself but was sorta thinking out loud about a standard of manufacture for everyone who makes a scope  that might carry this label.

As is, everyone from the Chinese to S&B have "tactical" scopes, some of which can be trusted implicitly and others..well you know.

What if, as an industry, mfg's would commit to a standard set of tests which would pretty much define glass quality, image resolution,
tube diameter(s) adjustment types and ranges, and survivability under scientific testing and measurement.

This would insure good optics, a verified adjustment capability, have a standard for resolution similar to the SEER rating on appliances
and dictate how scopes were  assembeled to gaurantee testing survivability.  The comsumer would then have a score sheet to determine best product for the job, weighing quality against budget concerns.

I'd never propose this as a gov't standard, just something a mfg could point to and say " we meet spec XYZ, section 1,2,3 etc).

Just rambling out loud.  What do ya think?


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longbow308 View Drop Down
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that would be good if that standard was affordable?



Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/23/2006 at 13:58
Trinidad View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Mike McDonald Mike McDonald wrote:



What if, as an industry, mfg's would commit to a standard set of tests which would pretty much define glass quality, image resolution,
tube diameter(s) adjustment types and ranges, and survivability under scientific testing and measurement.

This would insure good optics, a verified adjustment capability, have a standard for resolution similar to the SEER rating on appliances
and dictate how scopes were  assembeled to gaurantee testing survivability.  The comsumer would then have a score sheet to determine best product for the job, weighing quality against budget concerns.

I'd never propose this as a gov't standard, just something a mfg could point to and say " we meet spec XYZ, section 1,2,3 etc). What do ya think?


 

I like this idea Mike.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/23/2006 at 22:17
xtreme_jeremy View Drop Down
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Sounds like a great idea however its going to be hard to get companies to do this.

If you could get a few big names to do it then it might catch on however I dont believe that the small companies would want to admit that there budget scopes really dont stack up to the competition.

 

Jeremy 

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/23/2006 at 22:24
ChrisGarrett View Drop Down
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Hello,

 

The big players already do this.  Who wants some Chinese crap brand to adhere to some 'hopeful' standard?  Not me.  SB, USO, Leupold, Nightforce, Kahles, Swarovski, Hensoldt, Zeiss, Burris, Nikon, IOR et al, already do what we have asked.  The only issue is whether you have the money to pony up to the plate and buy one of these more than adequate 'tac-ti-cool' scopes.

 

Chris 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/23/2006 at 23:23
Anthony View Drop Down
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A sniper that hand picks there scope and rifle is what determines what a real "tactical" scope is. I mean that the marksman does not care what others recommend or say they will have to get used to, they choose what they want, with no regard to how the manufacturer lists there products, collecting purely factual information before they decide what to do.

 

A true sniper is unique to all others, knows his weapon inside and out, and generally feel comfortable performing basic customization to there own rifles. (I.E. paint)

 

IMO most law enforcement has turned a 700 action with a leupy mk4 as there "Standard issue", but if you are a marksman with a weapon virtually identical to more than say 5 others, than your a marksman, not a sniper. because a sniper doesn't follow the crowd, he is watching the crowd.

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/24/2006 at 08:22
Mike McDonald View Drop Down
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One of hte things that concerns me is watching LE organizations deploy their tacteam shooters.  I'm not speaking of the entry guys but the small venue folks such as the rural sherrifs dept on a tight budget, but having the need, or wanting to have a shooter for whatever situation.
In my area the "tactical rifle package" is a mass produced hunting rifle with a scope used for beginner hunting applications.

Thoughts on "tactical" scopes are that they are used in life threatening situations and might want to have some minimum standard of reliability to point to.  As is, you have mfg hype for the most part. 

Questions not answered by anyone who builds scopes;
MTBF  ( I killed a $1300.00 name brand tac scope in 3000 rounds of 308 shooting.  MFG of this scope taughts only that "everyone" uses it.
         &nbs p;   They repaired it quickly, it's a good scope and I still use it.)

Repeatability

Durability in low amplitude vibtration exposure  ( want to kill an expensive scope?  leave in mounted on your rifle in the trunk of your car for 3 months)

Ability to withstand an impact similar to a 3 foot drop onto a hard surface, mounted to a rifle of a given weight without change in impact at a reasonable range.

Things along this line that no one does or has a a standardized testing series at the moment.
It would be nice to know as a leo for example that if I spend $400.00 on a "tactical scope" it does  A&B as a minimum, and if the budget is
$1200.00 it does A&B&C etc.  Present this information to your city attorney and you  might get better products on your team with a justified cost savings weighed as reduction of liability.  The sport shooter might get a better idea of how is stretch to invest an aditional amount is actually beneficial to his play money budget.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/24/2006 at 14:26
longbow308 View Drop Down
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Ya know fellers

That's pretty much the way it is in a small Parish here
in La.Not much of a budget for equipment needed,or if
thay get the money, thay buy cheap equipment.But to get the
money, someone has got to be trained to some degree.
for me, It was pretty much going to the range and qualifying
out to 300 yards. shooting small targets such as being able to hit a 2" spot at 300 yards.with the equipment
the Sherrifs office has,you just can't do it. cheap rifles
bad optics.thats why i bought my on equipment. Takeing the
job as DM,I couldn't put my self in a place where i had to
make a shoot to save another life with cheap unreliable
equipment, just could not do it, so i bought my rifle and
optics capable of makeing such a shoot.even the lupy mk4
that i had,if i never had to change zero no more
than 2 or 3 moas, it would do ok, but when you go
tring to go to out to 600 or 800 yards and back to 200
there was a good chance it wouldn't come back to the same
place.the reliability of changeing zeros was not there,
out of 6 times changeing zeros it would fail at list one time, and it might not be by much more than than 1 moa.
that not good enought i'm sorry .I have a good friend that was a scott sniper in the
UCMC. shoot on there shooting team, high power and service
rifle.he would talk about equipment failing, mostly scope,
when one fails thay replaced it.they call there scopes,
sniper scopes.it needs to be able to make kills,out to what ever the range that thay are shooting at or on small
equipment such as communications.snipers don't shoot for
groups.thay shoot for kills, weather in the chest or head,
at longer ranges past 700 yards there aiming low in the
chest any way, so 1 moa at 1000 yards, high or low, more than likely it is a kill.a sniper scope moves in 1 moa per click. one complete turn, it goes from 100 to 1000 yards,not much fine tuneing to be done.
what i'm saying is that there scopes have a different roll in the shooting department.sniper vs tactical.

A {tactical scope} to me should be of the same quality. if it's going to be labled {tactical} it should meet a standard
have 1/4 min clicks at 100 yard.to be able to hit that 2" spot at 300 yards.a tactical scope is used for life saveing weather it be a hostage,a fellow officer, or bi-stander.
it is used to kill hostage takers,armed gunmen,and drug dealers.did i mention i hate drug dealers.some times the shoot you have is very small,and in some cases there is a bi-stander very close to the hostage taker.
if there is going to be a failer, hope it at the range and not when needed most.because when you have the crosshairs on a man that is holding a child.sh*t starts running throw your head, like is my zero good,what if it moved,or got jard off.
OH GOD!!! PLEASE BE ON THE MARK,it's not a good felling.

even thow i always check my zero after makeing changes.i shoot at lest 3 round to check and make sure it is back where it needs to be.even thow, the thought, is still there {what if }
thats why it needs to be a reliable scope.no if's an's or butt's it just has to be.

people do use a tactical scope for other things such as hunting,paper punchen,or just to say thay have one.the quality should still be there.

good shooten fellers

    
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/24/2006 at 21:29
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Tactical Scopes are supposed to be the scopes designed to accurately shoot enemy combatants and dangerous criminals, however the high level of accuracy and the ease of adjustment features appeal to many other types of serious shooters. So we have all kinds of optics out there with a variety of features and some are trash and some are treasure. Learning from the experience of others and personally testing the equipment is the only way to determine just how reliable a specific optic is. That is what makes this forum so valuable to optics buyers. There are some good tactical optics that can be had at a low dollar figure Ex. the 10x Super Sniper. Therefore just because a department has a limited budget doesn't mean they can't have a useable sniper rifle. Ex. Savage 10FP. Lets face it even those of us who know and appreciate what a TAC OPS  or GAP gun is likely dont have one due to cost. So sometimes you do the best you can.  ..."a good man knows his limitations" , and his rifles limitations.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/24/2006 at 23:46
Anthony View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Mike McDonald Mike McDonald wrote:


Things along this line that no one does or has a a standardized testing series at the moment.
It would be nice to know as a leo for example that if I spend $400.00 on a "tactical scope" it does  A&B as a minimum, and if the budget is
$1200.00 it does A&B&C etc.  Present this information to your city attorney and you  might get better products on your team with a justified cost savings weighed as reduction of liability.  The sport shooter might get a better idea of how is stretch to invest an aditional amount is actually beneficial to his play money budget.

 

just a thought to add to that, my oldest scope is a leupold vx-I, I can recall two ocasions where I carelessly proped the rifle against something and it fell scope first for some reason. Once on a hardwood floor and once on carpet, and it kept it's zero, I havent bought a leupold in a very long time, but I still use my old units because they are good functional scopes, just pricy. So on some occasions you can be pleasantly surprised by what can happen. But misfortune can also strike, which is why we are in search of warranties.

 

BTW the rifle I was refering to is some old (19th century) winchester that is in operational condition, which is all that I can say for it, so its what my freinds are aloud to shoot  not out of greed or anything

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/26/2006 at 16:55
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http://www.shootingtimes.com/optics/STtactical_1005/

 

Got this from Chris's thread in "News and Updates" forum.

Thought it would go with your thread, Mike.

 

I like this quote.

 

 

What magnification range should you consider? This will depend upon your individual needs, but I think most riflemen are well served with a simple 2.5-10X. A scope in this magnification range provides a large FOV at 2.5-4X for close-range shots on moving targets. Powered up to 8-10X, it has sufficient magnification to identify and engage targets at long range. If your needs dictate jumping up in magnification to 16X or 24X, keep in mind that higher magnification means less FOV and a smaller exit pupil. (I know some prefer a 6-24X scope to use in place of a spotting scope, but the problem with this usage is that few riflescopes can match the resolution and brightness of a high-quality spotting scope.)

 

Amen and Amen........

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/26/2006 at 17:12
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Usually it goes by the reticle.  If it has a mil dot or range finding reticle they say its a tactical scope.  We all know that some of this is true and some with the range finding reticle would not work well in a military / law enforcement situation.

 

Tactical Scope is pretty much summed up by the following:

Rugged Design

Range Finding Reticle

Above Average Light Transmission

Above Average Resolution

Above Average and Super Reliable Adjustments

 

Unfortunately Most Tactical Scopes run from 600 to 2k.  The only one that comes close, but is affordable is the Super Sniper, but you do get what you pay for...

 

The biggest thing I can say is your Tactical Scope is worth nothing if you don't get the right rings and bases to hold your Scope.  I will take my cheap hunting scope in good rings and bases, over a high end tactical in cheap rings and bases.  I will out shoot you anytime...

 

If your thinking tactical and it's your job, then this can be life or death.

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