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What could be going on?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/29/2010 at 18:04
hometheaterman View Drop Down
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Dolphin Overton

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So let me start off by saying that I have shot several other rifles and don't have this issue at all. Well, I got my Browning BAR out to do some shooting with it since I hadn't in a while. I'm sure most of you remember about me having trouble in the past getting good groups. Yet last time I was shooting it I got decent groups and thought I'd found ammo it liked. Well, I got it out today and decided to shoot at the 100 yard target like normal. I shot a few times and saw that I was hitting all over the place. I had the scope zoomed into 9x. It's a Burris Fullfield II 3x9x40mm scope. I almost always shoot on 9x at 100 yards on any rifle. With other rifles I don't have trouble consistently getting under 1" groups. Although I don't shoot any others that kick this hard. That's the only difference I can think of. I was literally shooting about a 5" group it was so bad. So after a few shots and adjusting the scope slightly I zoomed out to 5.5 power. I shot a 5 shot group that measured 1.313" right in the center of the bulls eye. 3 shots were making up one hole in the bulls eye and two were slightly off to the side like I pulled that made it measure 1.313". It literally would have been a .5" group if that if I hadn't had the other two. So I thought man this thing is shooting good and went back to 9x. The first shot I hit 3" high. The next shot I hit 1-2" low. It's like I can't hit the same spot on 9x. However, when I zoom back to 5.5" I'm hitting the same spot over and over. What can be going on here? Maybe this is why I've always got such bad groups with this rifle. Is it something possible to be wrong with the scope or gun? Or is it all me? It's not like the POI is shifting with magnification changes but instead it's like it goes from shooting dead center to shoot all over the target. I shot another rifle right after this and had it on 9x and as usual shot a group well under 1". .6" to be more specific. It was a lighter recoiling rifle though. I just can't figure out what can be going on here. What do you guys think?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/29/2010 at 18:11
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  First off maybe let someone you have confidence in give it a try.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/29/2010 at 18:38
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Then, mount a scope of known dependability -- preferably one that has withstood many shots on another heavy kicker -- on the BAR and see if you have the same results.  Rule out one variable at a time as the culprit.
 
This sounds like a problem with your scope's erector assy to me.  Perhaps the fit between erector assy components becomes more sloppy when the zoom tube is dialed out to high power and clearances tighten up when dialing back to low power.
 
If the results you describe at 5X and 9X are repeatable, I don't see how this could be anything but a scope problem.  Again, rule out the scope by installing another scope of proven performance on the rifle.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/29/2010 at 20:28
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Dolphin Overton

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I'm really wondering if it's actually me pulling because I see movement a lot more at 9x. I know this rifle is kind of a pain to shoot. While it's not a super hard kicker it kicks decently hard and has the hard plastic butt plate. I'm really thinking that it may be me just pulling it and at 9x it's magnifying the movement much more so I'm trying to hold it more on the bulls eye and not. I just can't really determine if it's me or if it's the gun or scope. I think I'm going to have to do some more testing. I shot at 5.5x again with my last two rounds and hit a few inches off then too. However, I know it's because I was getting tired and my arm was getting sore. The other rifles I usually shoot have rubber butt plates that make them much more enjoyable to shoot. I just can't figure out if it's me or if it's something that's possible for the scope to have happen to it. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/29/2010 at 20:57
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I do a lot better at 6x with my .308's and 7mm mag than I do zoomed in more at 100 yards. It's me, not the scopes or the gun. I don't paper punch much, just enough to make sure all is well before I take off hunting somewhere. I think it's just how much any little twitch "or tiny pre-shot flinch" gets magnified. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/29/2010 at 21:11
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Another trip to the range will let you know. Like Rifledude said, let a buddy shoot it before you do any major changes. At 9X it is very unlikely you are pullin the shots that much. Unless you are closing your eyes. I don't think you are. Burris is a very good scope but, that doesn't mean they can't fail at times. My guess is if your friend shoots it he will get the same results. Don't tell him what the problem is, just tell him there is a problem and you need his help. That way he doesn't try to correct when shooting. Then switch scopes to make double sure. I suppose you've already checked to see if everything is tight. It most likely is but, never hurts to be sure. Good luck!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/29/2010 at 21:17
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Dolphin Overton

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Yep everything is tight. I think I'm going to have to shoot it some more as well as even have someone else shoot it to see what it does for them. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/30/2010 at 17:11
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Dolphin Overton

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After making it to the range again today and doing some more shooting I've come to the conclusion that I'm 98% sure it's me combined with the fact this seems to be a 2moa gun and not the scope. Today I shot a awesome group on 9x then shot a crappy group when I turned it back down to 5.5x and I knew I pulled at least one of the shots. My shoulder also started hurting after about 10-15 shots so I had to stop after a box of rounds. I think it's just me pulling, then my shoulder hurts from the crappy butt plate and then I pull even more. I still need to have a friend shoot but I'm pretty sure it's me. I tried dry firing a little and I noticed that while I didn't always pull as much as the shots were pulled that I did in fact pull a little with it. I think I pull worse when actually shooting because I know it's going to hurt. Today it seemed to do decent at first then at the end I started getting bad groups. I'm just 95% sure it's me at this point combined with the fact the gun is lucky to shoot 2moa anyway. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/30/2010 at 19:26
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  Sounds like a DECENT recoil pad is in order.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/30/2010 at 19:30
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Originally posted by hometheaterman hometheaterman wrote:

After making it to the range again today and doing some more shooting I've come to the conclusion that I'm 98% sure it's me combined with the fact this seems to be a 2moa gun and not the scope. Today I shot a awesome group on 9x then shot a crappy group when I turned it back down to 5.5x and I knew I pulled at least one of the shots. My shoulder also started hurting after about 10-15 shots so I had to stop after a box of rounds. I think it's just me pulling, then my shoulder hurts from the crappy butt plate and then I pull even more. I still need to have a friend shoot but I'm pretty sure it's me. I tried dry firing a little and I noticed that while I didn't always pull as much as the shots were pulled that I did in fact pull a little with it. I think I pull worse when actually shooting because I know it's going to hurt. Today it seemed to do decent at first then at the end I started getting bad groups. I'm just 95% sure it's me at this point combined with the fact the gun is lucky to shoot 2moa anyway. 

Get a soft slip-on buttplate for shooting off the bench.  There are quite a few available.  I have had good luck with Limbsaver and Shooter's Friend on my milsurp rifles.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/30/2010 at 22:33
hometheaterman View Drop Down
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Dolphin Overton

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Yeah I have been saying for 2 years I'm going to get a new recoil pad. Then I put it away and forget about getting one until the next time I bring it out to shoot. Are the slip on ones easily removable? Do they harm the finish? I for some reason can't get used to the look of the slip on ones so I don't want one to leave on there permanently. If I get one to permanently put on there are there any good choices out there that look decent and don't require you to modify the rifle?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/30/2010 at 23:20
koshkin View Drop Down
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Originally posted by hometheaterman hometheaterman wrote:

Yeah I have been saying for 2 years I'm going to get a new recoil pad. Then I put it away and forget about getting one until the next time I bring it out to shoot. Are the slip on ones easily removable? Do they harm the finish? I for some reason can't get used to the look of the slip on ones so I don't want one to leave on there permanently. If I get one to permanently put on there are there any good choices out there that look decent and don't require you to modify the rifle?

I have a couple of slip-on recoil pads in my range bag.  I am not aware of them harming the finish in any way.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/01/2010 at 01:02
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You could also try...

Post two targets.  Take one shot at the keeper target.  Switch to a very light recoil rifle and shoot the other target for a few shots.  Then one more with the BAR on the keeper etc until you have 5 from the BAR on the keeper.  That might help slow down a flinch.

But as others have said I keep a slip-on handy for my m38.
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