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What 6.5?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2015 at 19:54
tejas View Drop Down
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Couple years ago I bought two Thompson Center Icons in .30TC. I got them for a great price from one of the on-line wholesalers because the .30TC was a dismal failure and weren't selling. Thompson Center has discontinued the Icon too. I have another Icon in 7mm-08 and love it. I bought the 30TCs because I figure they would be great to re barrel into something else later. Later has arrived. These actions are dbm, triangle shaped, flat on the bottom, have a solid recoil lug and use a three locking lug bolt and a Sako type extractor. They also have to scope rails machined into the top of the receivers. The stocks are nice too with an aluminum bedding block. Trigger is adjustable with almost no creep. It's a good thing since there are almost no aftermarket parts for these rifles.

I've decided that I need (want) a long range coyote and target rifle in 6.5 of some sort. My local range is only 400 yards long but once in a while I coyote hunt some pastures that are around 600 yards wide. Anyway, let's say 600 yards is the max I'll be shooting. I don't want a barrel burner so 6.5X284 and .264 mag are out.

I've spent the last several days comparing .260 Remington, 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5X47 Lapua. As far as I can tell, there is so little difference between the three that it's a toss up. Any input? Lapua makes brass for the 6.5X47 and .260, Hornady and Nosler make brass for the Creedmoor. As far as I have been able to research the bolt face on my Icon will work with any of them. .30TC is same as .308 family. Do any of these have an accuracy advantage over the others all things being equal? I'm less concerned with velocity, I won't be shooting at 1000 yards or anything.

Thanx Yall

Edited by tejas - February/07/2015 at 20:44
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2015 at 20:45
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Take a real good look at the 6.5x.284. It is a great round, as long as you intend to reload. There are a couple ammo companies out there that are making loaded ammo for it, but it's expensive and you would be better off loading.
 The 6.5x284 is a good caliber all the way out to 1000  yds. I've used mine to take white-tail as well as hogs, it can cause utter devastation, and is very light on the shoulder. I've got mine for sale only because my kids have no interest in loading or experimenting, so I want something I can give them that they can walk in any store and bu ammo for.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2015 at 22:27
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Thanks, from what I've read, that particular round is pretty tough on barrels. Also, I'm not sure it will work in short actions with heavy bullets. I'd like to shoot 140 gr VLDs.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2015 at 00:12
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Look at the ballistics for the 6.5 Grendel/.264 LBC.  IMHO it is a sweet round.  Ammo is available from Alexander Arms, Hornady, Wolfe and others and it's pretty flexible for hand loading working well with 90 to 130 grain bullets and quite a few obtainable powders.  Brass and load data is readily available.  Most frequently chambered in ARs it also works great in bolt guns and converted Mini 30s and should work very well in your application.  It is very accurate, frugal with powder and pleasant to shoot. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2015 at 06:02
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I've read the comparisons and they all look great. I've shot my wife's 6.5 Creedmoor at 300 and it does great at that range. the rifle is very light with a real skinny barrel and I've only used Hornady Superformance ammo in it and I'm amazed how well it shoots.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2015 at 08:33
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I have an AR in 6.5Grendel.  So far I've found nothing I don't like about it.  I've been shooting a few rounds with it almost every day… no complaints.  

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2015 at 08:52
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What weight bullets are you shooting in he Grendel.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2015 at 08:57
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I shoot the 123 gr Lapua and 123 gr Amax out of my grendel out to 1000 yards.  Shoot prairie dogs at 600 with them as well.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2015 at 09:21
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There would be no reason to use the Grendel in the bolt guns when he has the choice of 3 or 4 cartridges that would be better performers in the Icon platform.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2015 at 11:29
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I've been shooting 107 and 120 SMKs, 120 Nosler B Ts and 120 and 123 Hornady B Ts.  In April I will be trying whatever quality 130 grain bullet I can find to try to hit steel at 1,100 yards within the adjustment range of my SS 3-15.  Barrel length is 18" with 1:8 twist rate.  It also really likes the 123 grain Hornady 6.5 Grendel commercial ammo.  The most consistent accuracy so far has been with 120 and 123 grain bullets with no material preference for any of the above brands.  Vihtavouri N540 and Hodgdon CFE .223 have been my most consistently accurate powders for all bullet weights.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2015 at 20:37
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I'm shooting 123gr SST and AMAX.  Barrel is 14.5" with a 1.5" welded flash suppressor, twist at 1:7.5.  It is a super performer and I will choose it in ANY CQ requirement.  Shooting paper is not and never has been my love, I do it as a means to improve my ability to meet a need.  It is a tool, required to refine the use of the real tool…

All the other mentioned caliber variations are fine for particular applications.  Go with what suits your need and abilities...

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2015 at 16:00
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I have a .260 and it is very accurate. With 140 gr bullets it is deadly on deer. My M7 Remington is so handy I have thought about it for coyote, too.
It is nice to know that if there is .308 brass around, you will always have reloads available.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2015 at 16:15
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I've got the TC Icon (Precision Hunter) in 6.5 Creedmoor and REALLY like it.  It's got a 22" fluted, heavy barrel, and I'm getting 3/8" groups with every Hornady option for factory ammo I've tried (120 Amax, 120 gr Gmax, and 140 gr Amax.)  If you shoot factory ammo at all, the 6.5 CM is hard to beat for accuracy. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2015 at 20:32
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Originally posted by Maverick2 Maverick2 wrote:

I've got the TC Icon (Precision Hunter) in 6.5 Creedmoor and REALLY like it.  It's got a 22" fluted, heavy barrel, and I'm getting 3/8" groups with every Hornady option for factory ammo I've tried (120 Amax, 120 gr Gmax, and 140 gr Amax.)  If you shoot factory ammo at all, the 6.5 CM is hard to beat for accuracy. 



Thanks for the input.
Is that a factory gun or did you have it rebarreled? I know the TC custom shop built a few 7mm-08s which is one that I have, first I've heard of a 6.5 Creedmoor though. If you rebarreled it, who did the gunsmithing and what type and brand barrel did you go with? I've had good luck with Pac Nor in the past so that's probably who I'll use unless I change my mind. I'm thinking 24 inch heavy, 1-8 twist.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2015 at 22:00
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Originally posted by tejas tejas wrote:

Originally posted by Maverick2 Maverick2 wrote:

I've got the TC Icon (Precision Hunter) in 6.5 Creedmoor and REALLY like it.  It's got a 22" fluted, heavy barrel, and I'm getting 3/8" groups with every Hornady option for factory ammo I've tried (120 Amax, 120 gr Gmax, and 140 gr Amax.)  If you shoot factory ammo at all, the 6.5 CM is hard to beat for accuracy. 



Thanks for the input.
Is that a factory gun or did you have it rebarreled? I know the TC custom shop built a few 7mm-08s which is one that I have, first I've heard of a 6.5 Creedmoor though. If you rebarreled it, who did the gunsmithing and what type and brand barrel did you go with? I've had good luck with Pac Nor in the past so that's probably who I'll use unless I change my mind. I'm thinking 24 inch heavy, 1-8 twist.


It's a factory gun.  They didn't make many in the 6.5 CM, but did make a few.  Like most, it's a 1-8 twist.  With the laminated stock and heavy barrel, this rifle balances very nicely with a 22" barrel.   If it's a carry rifle and balance for off-hand shooting is important (I'm thinking coyotes here), the lighter standard Icon stock and a 24" heavy barrel may feel a bit nose heavy???   If shooting mostly off a bench or rest, 24" would be great.


  

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2015 at 22:08
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I have a custom Remington 6.5 Creed that will flat shoot out eyeballs, but when this barrel is done it will become a 6.5x47. There are people out there who have over 100 reloads on the same brass! Small primerpockets never wear out I guess. That being said my Hornady brass has 9 on them so far with no issues.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2015 at 09:03
tejas View Drop Down
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Originally posted by billyburl2 billyburl2 wrote:

I have a custom Remington 6.5 Creed that will flat shoot out eyeballs, but when this barrel is done it will become a 6.5x47. There are people out there who have over 100 reloads on the same brass! Small primerpockets never wear out I guess. That being said my Hornady brass has 9 on them so far with no issues.




I DO like idea of using small rifle primers. I live in Texas so I doubt that cold weather would be a drawback. Also, Lapua brass is available in that caliber as it is for the .260. Hard to find any complaints about any of the 6.5s. Sounds like I really can't make a bad decision.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2015 at 09:25
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6x47 or 6.5x47

Good barrel life
Small rifle primers
Lapua brass
Easy on brass
Almost amusingly gentle recoil
Lots of great bullets in either caliber
Lots of proven recipes available


I have yet to find a caliber in this class that does better than a 6x47 or 6.5x47, that'd my choice, no question.  Grendel is probably awesome, but no reason to do that when better bolt gun options exist.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2015 at 11:45
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6.5 Grendel is an awesome round, but it was designed to work within the diameter and length constraints of the AR15.

You have no such dimensional limitations in a bolt action, so unless you just happen to have tons of Grendel brass, you're better off going with .260, 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5X47, 6.5-284, and a host of others, if you want to maximize the performance potential your action allows. This isn't a knock on the 6.5 Grendel, as it's an excellent cartridge. You just wouldn't be maximizing the available real estate a typical short bolt action gives you.

If it were me, I would go with either the .260, 6.5 Creed, or 6.5X47.

In fact, I'm in the process of building another rifle right now as we speak and I have an 8-twist 6.5mm Broughton barrel that will end up either being chambered in 6.5 Creed or 6.5X47, I just haven't decided yet.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2015 at 17:20
tejas View Drop Down
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Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

6.5 Grendel is an awesome round, but it was designed to work within the diameter and length constraints of the AR15.

You have no such dimensional limitations in a bolt action, so unless you just happen to have tons of Grendel brass, you're better off going with .260, 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5X47, 6.5-284, and a host of others, if you want to maximize the performance potential your action allows. This isn't a knock on the 6.5 Grendel, as it's an excellent cartridge. You just wouldn't be maximizing the available real estate a typical short bolt action gives you.

If it were me, I would go with either the .260, 6.5 Creed, or 6.5X47.






In fact, I'm in the process of building another rifle right now as we speak and I have an 8-twist 6.5mm Broughton barrel that will end up either being chambered in 6.5 Creed or 6.5X47, I just haven't decided yet.



Why the Lapua and Creedmore over the .260? One of those two is what I'm leaning towards as well. There's no particular reason why, other than the cases have 30 degree vs 20 degree shoulders. From what I've read these prevent the cases from growing too much when you fire them. I normally neck size as many times as I can get away with it, so possibly, that's a minor advantage. It seems that a lot of the newer cartridges use sharper angled shoulders, including the WSMs. Are there other benefits as well? I think if I had to choose right this minute, I'd go with the 6.5X47. Gonna kick it around another couple of days before I ship my barreled action off though.

Thanx again everyone.



Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2015 at 19:20
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I'll have some 6.5 Cred brass once fired later this summer if anyone wants some. It's from Hornady Superformance ammo. Maybe 40 cases.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2015 at 23:02
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Originally posted by tejas tejas wrote:

 
Why the Lapua and Creedmore over the .260? 

First, because I already have 2 rifles in .260.

Second, and more importantly, those rounds have better case design than .260, providing longer brass life and greater seating depth latitude with long ogive bullets within a typical 2.850" - 2.9" length short action mag box. At the same time, they provide very close to the same velocity as the .260. The 6.5X47 is only about 100 fps slower (at the same pressures) yet can easily be loaded to .260 velocities, and the Creedmoor has essentially the same velocity as the .260. So, for all practical purposes, they are "improved" versions of the .260. Win-Win!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2015 at 10:49
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As much as I love the 260, unless you have an extended magazine, the length causes problems with the long heavy bullets. for that reason I'd go with the 6.5 Creedmoor or 6.5x47L (or their 6mm versions).

FWIW, as long time T/C Contender fan I had an interest in getting a factory Icon in 6.5 CM like Mavericks but they were hard to find and a little more than I was willing to spend at the time.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2015 at 17:36
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Not the x47, because it's for hunting and hunters tend to go for velocity. Creedmoor over .260 only if you're going to shooting long heavy target bullets and need the room in the action.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2015 at 10:04
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Sent my barreled action to Bartlein last week. Decided on 6.5X47L. It will be getting a 26 inch S/S 1-8 twist in #4 contour. They use single point cut rifling, 5R. According to a few guys at my local range, they are the cats a$$. Let y'all know in about six months.

Edited by tejas - February/24/2015 at 10:54
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