New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - We are under attack
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Check GunBroker.com for SWFA's No Reserve and No Minimum bid firearm auctions.

We are under attack

 Post Reply Post Reply   Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options Page  1 2 3>
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/04/2011 at 01:08
G Kurtz View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: December/02/2011
Location: High Asia
Status: Offline
Points: 72
Yesterday I posted the undermentioned text on the rifle scopes forum. However I think it can be of interest also here in the tactical scopes one.
 
In the meantime I've checked more "ghost-name" optic brands with fake American or German names ("Alpen, Burris, Bushnell, Millet, Ziel" etc.) and all this low-price low-quality stuff is apparently coming out from Shenzen based unaccountable chinese factories. U can check the "contact" addresses in their website, just to find many of them have the SAME addresses (e.g. Bushnell, Millet and Tasco) not only in the USA but also in Europe and Hong Kong. This adresses are only stores, or fake offices with one computer and one telephone. All this is just bulls*it cyber-camo of illegal or para-legal activities to invade western markets with no-quality items and to destroy our tactical industry.
            We are under attack
 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
 
From a place in High Asia, 2011 12 03             Von G Kurtz

 

This morning I was exploring the Net looking for info related to a nice old Hensodlt-Wetzlar 20x60 spotting scope which is part of our family hardware heritage. With my surprise, checking a German optic shop (http://www.ritter-optik.com/de/Zieloptiken)I noticed the advertising of a 10-40x60 riflescope at a price of 160 Euros.

 

A little research showed me clearly that all this stuff is some Chinese-made amass of low quality  materials, something one can easily find in Hong-Qiao market down in Beijing (I’ve seen it many times) for prices in the range of less than half of what Herr Ritter is selling in Deutschland.

 

It is interesting to note that the name “Ziel” (which can be translated as “aim” in German) has quite low visibility and no info is given of the provenance of this material.  

 

Moreover, while www.ziel.com doesn’t produced any significant result, the www.ziel.it showed up an Italian site selling all kind of low price, low quality optical and electronic bullsh*t … but NOT (significantly) any weapon-related item.

 

I would like to make aware the readers of this mail that all this Chinese stuff is inferior quality, inferior materials, no-name, no-brand, no- retraceable factory stuff. It is produced at this ridiculously low prices making use of labor force with no insurance, no social-safety and sometime even no-contract. And it is produced taking in no account not only the involved human resources but also the product’s quality and the environment, with the only and solely target to take your money and – possibly – to destroy competitors and monopolize the market (an old Chinese strategy).

 
As it is supposed to be a precision product, but has no precision at all, you can guess all this bullsh*t is probably little more than a waste of resources and materials, polluting the environment.

 

Moreover, there is a subtle but very serious “inside” danger in the import and commercialization of this “things” in Western Countries, related to the possible damage to serious western companies, with their wealth of knowledge which is part of our technical and scientific culture as well (in the worst and in the best) of our history.  

 
Finally, what for me is most disturbing, is the “camo” use of fake German names for this amass of Chinese “me*d
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/04/2011 at 10:23
supertool73 View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Master
Optics Jedi Master
Avatar
Superstool

Joined: January/03/2008
Location: Utah
Status: Offline
Points: 9516
First off  Loco

Second, the reason most of them have the same address is there are only a few optical factories that make optics.  They contract out to anyone who would ask them to make an optic.  They make anything from cheap junk to very high end stuff.  It all comes down to how their client specs them out. 

Most optic companys do not make their own scopes, they have one of the Japanese, Philippines, Portugal, Chinese, etc factories make then to their specs.  That is just the way the optics industry is run. 

Heck my Leica Geovids were made in Portugal.  Does that suddenly mean they are junk? 

And before you go off on how the poor workers have to work so hard for so little, at least they have jobs.  They are able to support their families and get through life because of those jobs.  If you force those companies to start having to pay all the same taxes and bills that our businesses have to pay then suddenly many of them would not have jobs at all. 

Go spew your crap somewhere else.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/04/2011 at 11:49
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 10961
Mr Kurtz, the quality or lack thereof of junky scopes on the market, no matter what they look like, is well explored and does not need to be re-iterated ad nauseum unless there is a specific scope someone is asking about.

Also, please do not double post.  Posting the same thing everywhere is called spamming.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/04/2011 at 11:51
G Kurtz View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: December/02/2011
Location: High Asia
Status: Offline
Points: 72
Negative. To contract out is something, to give swindles is another. Your Geovids made in Portugal are still Leica, and retreacable. The never even thinked to give them some other "fantasy" name. This is very different. And then (very importantly) Leica DO really works on optics - at a very high level - in Solms. ... Just examples
Moreover if the poor workers will have a job AND better living conditions, this will be better, don't U think so?
A+
K
PS: luckily I dont' use to "spew crap" haha. Maybe U also can avoid that, is not good for Ur health 
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/04/2011 at 12:07
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 10961
Mr Kurtz,

In the situation you described the only swindling I see is done by a European shop you mentioned that is trying to sell a crappy scope to its customers under pretense that it is something decent.

If some moron actually falls for that, well that is his fault and he should take it up with the retailer.

Moreover, what different companies use for their brand names is strictly their business.  If they choose to use Germanic sounding name, it is up to them.  It may help with some consumers and hurt with others.  It is their business decision and probably none of your business.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/04/2011 at 12:15
G Kurtz View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: December/02/2011
Location: High Asia
Status: Offline
Points: 72
Hi ILya
sorry for the double post, U right. But frankly speaking I didn't had the impression of all such a good exploration of the lack of quality of those intruments - like riflescopes, and especially tactical ones - where quality is ALL
 
U know there is no-premium for the second best in this game. The best defense against a sniper is another sniper. We see them a moment before = THEY are dead. They see us a moment before = WE are dead. I'm sure all of us will like to be behind the best scope of the world in such a situation.
 
Moreover, seen from here, the impression is instead that of a total commercial war against the West, the no-respect of the WTO, the no respect of any international law, the free flasification of every kind of brand, the industrial (and not only that one) spying, the stealing of technical and design capacities and the more or less conscious plan aimed to the destruction of Western productive capacity ... which is dangerous in all respects, but extremely so when referred to  the defense industry
 
Ok, maybe just I'm far away and in non-decent countries from toooo much time, hehe ... tooo many enemies! Hope the picture is less dark .. but as U mention ... "to be merciful to the cruel ..."
A+
K
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/04/2011 at 12:27
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 10961
Mr Kurtz,

I am well familiar with how business is done in China and I find their industrial espionage and lack of respect for intellectual property absolutely apalling.  I do not doubt that they want to destroy the West's production capability.  However, none of that is a secret.  It is fierce competition and if the West does not remember how to compete properly, it will loose.

I like nice scopes and spend a lot of time with them.  I run a website dedicated to talking about sporting optics and to educating the consumer on the importance of getting decent stuff.

I do not think there is a whole lot more we can do.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/04/2011 at 12:29
G Kurtz View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: December/02/2011
Location: High Asia
Status: Offline
Points: 72
Ahhh
... one info I was forgetting, especially for mr "Supertool73" (haha)
 TAXES ARE GOOD!
U do NOT pay any taxes in Afghanistan
A+
K
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/04/2011 at 12:44
blue109 View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: November/13/2011
Status: Offline
Points: 24
moral of the story..dont buy $75 leupolds from alibaba if you are a counter sniper in Afghanistan? solid advice! thx. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/04/2011 at 12:46
G Kurtz View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: December/02/2011
Location: High Asia
Status: Offline
Points: 72
Hallo Mr ILya
Thank for your reply.  I'm very happy to read what you just wrote. Believe me, from my observation post I can see the absolute evil and havoc that Chinese "peaceful liberation" can generate to poor "liberated" peoples.  I can also see that their system is absolutely unsustainable and destructive and therefore deemed to unavoidable failure, as it has always been the case in the history of China. However in the present time of easy communications, commerce and travels it will be essential to stop this disaster before it will reach the rest of the World, in the interest of alls ... Chinese people included! Running your website is a thing, as U say, and it can be a contribute to raise awareness of our guys.
 
Then, of course, we will win
 
Heil Freedom & Honor
A+
K  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/04/2011 at 12:55
G Kurtz View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: December/02/2011
Location: High Asia
Status: Offline
Points: 72
Hi blue109
haha! yes! But the problem I want to underline is another, a little more in the long run, strategic, not tactic. Maybe that day U will NOT have any more any Leupold ... or U will remain only with a $75 Leupold ... because the productive capacity of Leupold has been crushed by someone who has stolen your technology and destroyed your commerce trough illegal measures, supported or ate least not stopped by his government. And so now HE, not you, will have the REAL Leupold.
This is the issue
A+
K
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/04/2011 at 13:41
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Master
Optics Jedi Master
Avatar

Joined: January/19/2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7694
I would contend that the guy who buys a "Leupold" for $75 isn't really in the market for what Leupold sells.  The person who buys the counterfeit would be a BSA or Leapers customer otherwise, those are the companies that will be imperiled.

You get what you pay for.  Only a true idiot would think a $1,000 could be had, brand new, for $75 online.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/04/2011 at 14:03
G Kurtz View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: December/02/2011
Location: High Asia
Status: Offline
Points: 72
Hi Rancid
ya ya, but Leupold IS receiving fake scopes, with their markings, for servicing, as of course they are NOT hitting anything. Sadly "true idiots" does exhist, and in more than sufficient number ...  or maybe some of them is just not so idiot but only unexperienced / uninformed. This is why there are laws to protect the customer, and bad guys like U, and me, to give them  soundly advices: "Do not buy a $75 Leupold ... if U have to do  countersniping ... hehe!". But tell me, apart making holes in paper or other stuff at various distances just for fun, WHAT is the REAL (I mean the REAL) purpose of a Leupold  Mark IV?
OK
K
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2011 at 02:31
G Kurtz View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: December/02/2011
Location: High Asia
Status: Offline
Points: 72
So maybe also myself I can try to give the "moral of the story"? ... From my perspective, of course
 
- please guys at home pay attention and try to buy less chinese crap as possible, and especially ... try to not buy at all chinese crap in the serious tactical /defense sector. Doing so U are financing "something" quite  dangerous, and damaging our industry
 
 - on the contrary, when U buy items from serious real western firms, both the traditional and the innovative ones (U know the names) U contribute to keep the technological edge which  is the base of our defense
 
- and finally please do NOT install 50-bucks lenses on nothing bigger than a 22-LR. In the best scenario it will be only a miss, in the worst one it will be very dangerous.
 
A+
K
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2011 at 12:32
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Resident Redneck

Joined: June/20/2005
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 13868
Buy Trijicon American Flag
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2011 at 12:41
tahqua View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Have You Driven A Ford Lately?

Joined: March/27/2006
Location: Michigan, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 8043
I drove by the Trijicon plant today. That got me to thinking about them. Especially after our correspondence Wes.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2011 at 12:41
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Master
Optics Jedi Master
Avatar

Joined: January/19/2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7694
Curious to know why the ax needs so much grinding?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2011 at 12:55
supertool73 View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Master
Optics Jedi Master
Avatar
Superstool

Joined: January/03/2008
Location: Utah
Status: Offline
Points: 9516
I am betting he bought a $75 Leupold and sent it to Leupold for repair.  Wink
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2011 at 13:08
BeltFed View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar

Joined: February/12/2008
Location: Ky
Status: Offline
Points: 16067
Maybe Mr. G Short works in a Chinese scope factory and is trying to warn us of their true intentions.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2011 at 15:08
hatton mann View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: March/02/2011
Location: ne
Status: Offline
Points: 129
Don't the Germans, via NATO, have troops in Afghanistan ? Maybe just a young man of the western world a little concerned about the future, in general, and the western world in particular. Not all young folks are dunces,,,as long as he keeps it between the lines according to forum protocols, let him vent,,,or not.......Cool
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2011 at 15:29
stickbow46 View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar

Joined: January/07/2009
Location: Benton, Pa
Status: Offline
Points: 4673
Buy Premier American Flag 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2011 at 22:32
Tiras View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: December/05/2011
Status: Offline
Points: 4
Can you tell me where I can get a scope that retails at $1000 for $75.....WallyWorld!Smile
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2011 at 19:14
eurolynn View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: January/24/2010
Location: Oklahoma
Status: Offline
Points: 179
What the hell is going on here?Whacko
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2011 at 21:04
tahqua View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Have You Driven A Ford Lately?

Joined: March/27/2006
Location: Michigan, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 8043
Well, the topic has become somewhat convoluted, but I see the frustration. I am also on the established players sides, like Leupold, when it comes to blatant Chinese copies. China has no concern with patent infringement.
Please continue..............
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/10/2011 at 15:41
G Kurtz View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: December/02/2011
Location: High Asia
Status: Offline
Points: 72
Hi guys ... back from field
 
So, what I mean is quite simple = there is a HUGE difference between (A) somebody who just subcontract or buy some component from other manufacturers and (B) the one who simply ask them to  put his brand name on a product totally built and engineered outside (and generally very far) from him
 
The option (B) can for sure generate good money in the short run ... but has NO-FUTURE in the long one! U lose your capacity to DO things, you lose everything. And shall I really elaborate further on the danger of this idea when referred to the defense industry?
 
I've seen on street markets in PR China all kind of black boxes, w no-name, containing items IDENTICAL to what is sold in the West with fantasy American or German  names (Alpen, Bushnell, Millet, Tasco, Yukon, Ziel ... etc. I probably miss many). They see U are a foreigner, they say their price. U know the REAL price (generally 5 to  10 times less than what they say) U just tell them, then U can bring home that garbage, if U want. Then they ask: "how many do  U want?" I say "Five thousands pieces. But then we shall re-discuss the price" They "and what brand name we will put on that?" .. This is how it is functioning
 
Ok use Ur brain. Check WHAT are U buying and from WHO. Check where is the manufacture, where is the technical and desgin  and  R&D department (NOT the just the distributor or the "spare parts" or the warranty guys!)
 
Iraq Afghanistan and even Iran are just noisy nasty mosquitos ... we have defeated them for centuries, and they have NOT improved. The REAL danger for the West and for all the Free World is another! And it is worst than before, because it is more subtle, more clever and well camouflaged. I've seen it in action ... have a look to what is the condition in Inner Mongolia, or in Tibet ... all High and Central ASIA is in the reticle, as well as Subsaharian Africa (thanks God, North Africa is fighting for Freedom NOW!) The Great Game is here again  and this is a little - but nor irrelevant - part of it
 
U can play your part, guys 
 
A+
Honor & Enlightenment
K
 
PS: ah ya, Mr Supertool: my "75$ fake Leupold" is back for repairing (maybe "rebuilding"?) but I'm not so sad ... as then now I can use again my old little ZF 6-24x72 SAM ! Haha
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  1 2 3>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Similar Threads: "We are under attack"
Subject Author Forum Replies Last Post
The Heart Attack Buck... LRSMike General Hunting 4
Lion attack 8shots General Hunting 4
Cougar attacks Texas Deer hunter. Urimaginaryfrnd General Hunting 24
Colorado buck attacks video RifleDude General Hunting 9


This page was generated in 0.281 seconds.