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Warne Rings for S_ _t

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2008 at 17:57
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 I purchased a Savage 10FCP in an HS stock.  Warne 20 MOA one piece base and Warne 30mm rings for mounting a new SS 10x  all purchased from SWFA.  When everthing finally arrived, took all the care I've read about on this site and Snnipershide for installing mount rings and scope.  Even invested in torque wrenchs to do it right.  While installing the rings,  I couldn't help but noticeing the rings to base just didn't seem to tighten  up like it should even at 65"/lbs.  But it didn't move by hand so away I went for sight in and zero at the range.  First three shot group under 1", great!!!  this is gonna be good......Not so.... ran a couple patches down the barrel and started the next string , 3" out high right,  4" out 6 o'clock ,  3" out at 3 o'clock.  When checking found the scope was loose to the point I could move it by hand slidingfront to back.  No tools at the range so packed up and went home.  Tore everything apart and started over .  First time mounting the rings to base I tightend the bottom of the rings to base first then the top of rings.  So this time I tried both top and bottom at the same time.  No luck scope & rings still could be moved by hand.  Tore it apart again and tried the first sequence again.  Still no luck and this time I snaped one ring to base screw at less than 65"/ lbs.  Took the rings off the scope and put together off the scope and mic'd.  Then mic'd the outside of the base point to point  the base is 24ths smaller the the rings in a tight condition.  I dont think I've done anything wrong ,have I?
As far as Warne rings they have to be the most difficult style rings I've ever used.  Any Comments or Suggestions  (the rings are not going back on this gun for sure)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2008 at 21:22
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 Did the recoil blocks in the bottom of the rings seem to fit the cross-slots in the base correctly?
 If they bottom out, it wouldn't matter if the widest point of the base were narrower than the widest point in the ring bottom, even when they are closed tight.  The angled surfaces of the clamping area is where the pressure occurs. I'm referring here to your fourth-from -last sentence.
 I haven't ever used those rings, but by looking at them on the SWFA store page, it seems to me that there must be a fairly narrow range of relative gap or tightness between the screws at the top of the tube and those at the bottom of the tube for everything to work correctly when it all gets tightened up. It really looks like a poor design to my eyes.
  The Quick-Detachable ones apparently operate on a different principle, and look like they should work fine. ( I'm assuming that they have screws hidden under the base clamping mechanism, which would allow you to fully tighten the rings to the scope, and then go back later and clamp the whole assembly to the base with the lever/screw.) This would circumvent the juggling act which you are obviously experiencing.
 Again, this is mostly speculation...


Edited by RONK - February/23/2008 at 21:48
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2008 at 21:48
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The recoil blocks are floating within the ring base w/ v notch in each side .  they appear to engage the base correctly and I pushed them to a forward position like was described to me as the right way to secure them.  The scope, with rings torqued to 12-15# and ring base screws to almost 65# I could still slide the whole scope and ring combo till the recoil blocks hit the other side of the  slot in the base.  Not to worry the scope has a new set of QD Leopold rings and is atop the rifle for a nother trip to the Range.  Warne Rings will end up as far a I can throw them when I get there.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2008 at 21:51
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 I did some editing to my post while you were typing, so it may not all make any sense anymore.  Glad you got it working, though!

Edited by RONK - February/23/2008 at 22:04
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2008 at 22:03
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Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

 I did some editing to my post while you were typing, so it may not all make any sense anymore.  Glad you got it working, though!
 edited to add:
 
 Nevermind.  I'm an idiot!  You did not get it working, you replaced the Warnes with Leupolds. Going to bed now...Sleep
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2008 at 02:38
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First time I have heard of anyone having problems with Warne gear, my friend.
The folks on here and at my range love them. Koshkin uses them all the time with no problems.
 
I'm sorry that happened.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2008 at 09:50
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 Yeah, don't throw them away just yet!  Send them to me and I'll try to figure out whats wrong.  If they are still usable, I'll give you something for them!     Smile
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2008 at 21:21
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With vertical split rings I would make sure the bottom screws are tight, first, with no gap in the rings. I would then mount the rings to the bases with the cross slot inserts seated against the front of the base. I know you have done this second part.
If you do have defective rings I would contact Warne directly. They do make a quality product and the several I have worked with are very good, indeed. Considering they are MIM and use this insert, I have found them to be very precise.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2008 at 21:55
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Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

With vertical split rings I would make sure the bottom screws are tight, first, with no gap in the rings. I would then mount the rings to the bases with the cross slot inserts seated against the front of the base. I know you have done this second part.
If you do have defective rings I would contact Warne directly. They do make a quality product and the several I have worked with are very good, indeed. Considering they are MIM and use this insert, I have found them to be very precise.
 I guess I don't understand how it would be possible to do it that way.  If he tightens the bottom screws, how will he be able to then get the rings to fit over the base, with the inserts in the slots?  I probably should have stayed out of this thread without knowing how these things work!  Bucky
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2008 at 22:15
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The screw that tightens the clamp plate to the base is separate from the two that clamp the vertically split rings together.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2008 at 22:28
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Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

The screw that tightens the clamp plate to the base is separate from the two that clamp the vertically split rings together.
 That's what I understand of the Detachable style, but the permanent ones look like everything has to go together all at once. I'm sure I'm wrong, though. It's probably completely different than I'm envisioning it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2008 at 22:36
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The only difference between the permanent and the QD is the lever on the end of the screw instead of a Torx fitting. Both tighten the plate against the base.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2008 at 23:01
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Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

The only difference between the permanent and the QD is the lever on the end of the screw instead of a Torx fitting. Both tighten the plate against the base.


are you sure?  Permanent Warne rings I have are constructed differently from QD ones.  It is not just a different screw.  You do have to tighten the bottom two screw first.

On epotential problem is that it may be possible, if you are not careful, to insert the recoil key in such a way that it will not let you tighten the bottom screws properly.

Just a thought.  I would call Warne and talk to them.

ILya

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2008 at 05:44
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I'll double check on that. I have mounted some Warne QD's and fixed, and two Talley's in the last week. Maybe I'm confused Loco
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2008 at 12:06
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

The only difference between the permanent and the QD is the lever on the end of the screw instead of a Torx fitting. Both tighten the plate against the base.


are you sure?  Permanent Warne rings I have are constructed differently from QD ones.  It is not just a different screw.  You do have to tighten the bottom two screw first.

On epotential problem is that it may be possible, if you are not careful, to insert the recoil key in such a way that it will not let you tighten the bottom screws properly.

Just a thought.  I would call Warne and talk to them.

ILya

Almost all of my rifles, except for a few have Warne rings and mounts.  Most are permanent mount rings and maybe 5 to 7 are QDs.  Basically, the construction is quite similar, except the QD model have the torquing lever that tightens down on one side, like a screw on lesser expensive rimfire mounts.  On the permanent mount rings, the key can be inserted either side up, but on the QD rings, it must be inserted in one direction only.  On both, they must be inserted properly, or else they will not close shut to the maximum degree.  I personally do not tighten the top or bottom first.  I place the ring half with the key on the scope first and the attach the other half and tighten all screws so the key does not fall out.  Believe me, they are tough enough to mount, so I have perfected this.  This way, you do not keep having the key fall out.  After putting both rings on, I place them over the mounts, where they are usually too tight to fit on and loosen them enough, bottom and sometimes top screws, so that they fall into place and then tighten them enough to allow me to position the scope.  With the QD rings, it is even easier.  The minor design difference allows the scope to be held without less slop, after tightening the screws, as you can use the QD levers to hold the scope in position while moving the scope in the rings.  I am not sure why you had a problem, unless the key was misaligned.  I measure each ring I receive and the differences are minuscule.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2008 at 17:17
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 If you get on SWFA's store page , click on Mounts, and then Warne, and surf around the different models.  There are the Detachable ones that have a lever and a clamp plate, but there are also some permanent ones that have no clamp plate. The two ring halves quite clearly fasten to each other with two screws at the top and two at the bottom, hence my earlier observations.  We don't really know what kind the Original Poster has though...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2008 at 17:27
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None of the standard permanent mount rings have a clamp plate.  Both sides fasten together in a very precision like manner.  I have them on Weatherbys, Remingtons, Savages, Steyrs, Zastava, Parker Hale, Ruger MK II, CZ, Weatherby Vanguard, Howas and probably some I have forgotten.  All have fit together like a swiss watch (Minerva, my favorite, only own two).

Edited by Dolphin - February/25/2008 at 17:28
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2008 at 20:47
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For what it's worth, Warne, just like everybody else, now and then will turn out a part that gets by the QC people that shouldn't have. While employed at Warne I saw an M666-20MOA along with a bunch of other numbers slip through. My guess would be the base is too narrow. I'm no longer an employee of Warne, but I will defend their quality. They are in my opinion the best out there.
 
RM


Edited by Ring Master - March/02/2008 at 20:48
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/24/2010 at 15:17
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Quick question - I have Warne permanent rings with the two screws on the bottom and two on the top (no nut, no QD lever).
 
Do you tighten both top and bottom screws at 15 in-lbs, or do you do 65 in-lbs for the bottom two screws and 15 in-lbs for the top two?
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2010 at 22:20
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Hello Greywolf,
Only the tactical 3 screw rings go to 65 in-lbs. 15 was proven to be a bit weak for the larger calibers. The torque was jumped up to 20 to 25 inch pounds. All my rings are torqued to 20 inch pounds on everything from the rings you see on my avatar rifle (10-22) to all 6 of my sniper rifles. I don't use the tactical rings at all.
I hope this helps.
 
Ron
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2010 at 23:29
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I find Warne a pain in the butt to put together but once they are on they seem to work well. I have used seveal sets of Talley lightweight ringmounts lately and they have all been awesome and are quickly becoming my favorite.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/29/2010 at 18:40
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Thanks - yup, confirmed with Warne it is 25 in-lbs.
 
Good customer service, too - they are sending me some replacement screws.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/01/2010 at 22:40
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Talley is far too specialized. Captive bases, unique mounting and if you're going to take them off one rifle and install them on another, you'll need another pair of bases. Not cheap. Thats Talley's only drawback. They are top quality & high end equipment. The Warne rings mount on Weaver style bases which are the most common of all the mounts and will work on picatinny rails as well.
Once you figure out how to mount Warne rings on a scope, its like falling off the proverbial log. They really are pretty easy to install.
 
RM
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