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VX-III Question...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2007 at 00:02
guitarman View Drop Down
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Hey folks, I was wondering if anyone knows for certain if the Leupold VX-III's are made of a one piece tube.  Any input would be greatly appreciated!

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2007 at 00:03
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Also, I have seen a number of sources that state "The exclusive Index Matched Lens Systemô effectively manages available light, transmitting up to 98% for an incredibly bright, crisp sight picture."

 

98%???  Lol somehow I don't think that's accurate...

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2007 at 00:18
ceylonc View Drop Down
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Originally posted by guitarman guitarman wrote:

Also, I have seen a number of sources that state "The exclusive Index Matched Lens Systemô effectively manages available light, transmitting up to 98% for an incredibly bright, crisp sight picture."

 

98%???  Lol somehow I don't think that's accurate...

 

That is marketing B.S.  Trust your eyes on this one and realize that, optically, the VX-III is good but NOT great.

 

"...for an incredibly bright, crisp sight picture"  is an amazingly brazen quote when you consider that there are $300-350 scopes that are brighter and have better resolution. 

 

I know that you claim that Leupold is the only company that makes what you want.  I don't have the desire to try to tell a man (who as already made up his mind) what he should do.  All I can say is "don't drink the KoolAid" when it comes to digesting the marketing B.S. that is put out by Loopy. 

 

One thing that is great about having you here is that, as a college-aged member, you are learning a LOT about rifles & optics.  You're going to eventually come to the same conclusions that many other members here have regarding the need for Leupold to right the ship, so to speak. 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2007 at 01:18
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I'm sure I will, ceylonc.  I have no doubt that my knowledge regarding rifle scopes pales in comparison to yours and many of the members of this forum.

 

What might you recommend for a scope in this price range?

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2007 at 08:03
mwyates View Drop Down
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What difference does a one piece tube make?  No variable scope with a focusing eyepeiece is a true one piece tube.  Besides, if a scope is guaranteed for life to all owners and has no history of failures, why worry?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2007 at 09:43
ceylonc View Drop Down
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Originally posted by guitarman guitarman wrote:

I'm sure I will, ceylonc.  I have no doubt that my knowledge regarding rifle scopes pales in comparison to yours and many of the members of this forum.

 

What might you recommend for a scope in this price range?

 

While I know a LITTLE about scopes, I can assure you that I'm not an expert like many that frequent this site.  My knowledge comes from usage and the ability to look through lots of different scopes (I have two friends who work at hunting stores and they allow me to take the scopes outside for evaluations; even had one lend me a Conquest, 4200, VX-L, and Swaro American for a weekend at the hunting camp) when I have time.  My eyes tell me the rest and the guys here sort out what my eyes are telling me.  I learn every time I visit this site and am humbled by the knowledge shared by the members here.

 

Without knowing your specific price range, I think I remember you mentioning that you wanted to keep it under $600?  You stated that the Loopy you were looking to buy would run about $520 and have a fine duplex reticle.  I can only assume that you want "fine duplex" because you feel that the thin lines allow for a more precise aim point (over standard duplex) on small targets over a longer distance.  You also mentioned that you have looked at a lot of different scopes so I'll also assume that the duplex reticle in most of them was too wide to your liking.  Is there any reason why you don't like mil dot or holdover reticles?  Do you perceive them as too wide as well?  I would think that you would be interested in some of the finer (width, not quality) mil-dots as that would help with a more accurate aimpoint at varmints over varying distances (ie--no "clicking" after you've ranged the target, just range, hold to correct dot & squeeze the trigger before the critter decides to hightail it).  With the hope that a mil dot reticle will accomplish the same thing as fine duplex, I'll offer the following (all with mil dot reticle; exceptions noted):

--Sightron S2 4x16 42mm for @ $399;

--Sightron S2 4.5x14 44mm w/SIDE FOCUS for @ $490;

--Meopta R1 Meostar 4x16 44mm for @ $600 (I know, an additional $80 but much higher level of glass);

--Nikon Monarch 6.5x20 44mm w/FINE CROSSHAIR for $430 (if you don't need the extra mag, don't crank it up);

--Weaver Classic V series 4x16 42mm w/FINE CROSSHAIR for $290 (just a tad under VX III optically but $230 less);

--Burris Fullfield II 4.5x14 42mm w/FINE CROSSHAIR for @ $320;

--Burris Signature Select 4x16 44mm from $450-520

 

I'm sure there are a few I forgot.  Again, I am NOT trying to change your mind, only suggesting that you look through these scopes before you buy the Leupold you've selected.  I think you'll start to ask questions yourself as to what you really need and how much value each scope represents.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2007 at 10:30
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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Mark V, VXL and III are one piece, and the rest are 2 piece for no other reason than the 30 mm tubes in the former allow Leo to offer a wide change out in reticle types and still use a 1 piece tube. Ever tried to get a reticle change in a Zeiss congquest or Nikon? Transmission is calculated on a percentage bases, if the scope has say 3 elements, and each is transmitting at 98% this would be .98x.98x.98 or 94% transmission. Obviously the more elements -probably the less the transmission. Brightness has no meaning when discussing scopes-resolution yes. I've seen Tascos brighter than Leos and my NFs and USOs but not the resolution. Scopes have optimal transmission at different wavelengths, and obviously most of the regulars on this forum prefer it in the higher scale (towards the blues) rather in the lower (towards the reds) such as Leos, based on their biasis. As I recall USO only states their transmission as about 95%. Even if Leo or Nikon had a higher figure it means little. Reticle subtension is usually based on MOA subtension at some distance. Nikon offers a "fine" at 1/8" with 1/8" clicks on their monarch which is very fine and less than the bullet width of a 204, (5mm). Most "duplexs" run about 1/4" Mildots run about 1/2" or larger with the dots running as large as 2MOA. Unfortunately the eye is a very poor test intrument, as many people preceive a given intensity differences at different wavelengths. This can be corrected, just like in camera lenses by the use of filters, Leo offers a full set (which work very well by the way) by enhancing what would otherwise be the lows in the spectrum. Mil-dot is generally not a good hold over device and in fact mil-dot is generally not a good reticle. The fact that government agencies choose and use speaks for itself. (thus the saying good enough for government work?) IN fact it isn't a very good ranging device, but I'm sure that will be the topic of many posts.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2007 at 12:05
rootmanslim View Drop Down
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I'm glad to see someone else shares my confusion about what idiot ever came up with Mil-Dots. You need a table taped to the stock to use them and anyone hunting big game at responsible ranges can use the duplex as a holdover device or if varmints can buy a rangefinder that will tell you the exact range and thus holdover. In all cases "holdover" for big game is more a theory than a fact since if you use the old O'Connor rule of 3"s high at 100, you will be dead on between 225-300 with any modern round and still in the kill zone at 300-375 with a dead on hold. The guides I know say the almost all misses are over rather than under as folks want to coax the crosshairs up a bit. The more complex the reticule the more opportunity to screw things up in the excitment of seeing the "big one".Remember O'Connor killed almost everything with a 2.5X Lyman Alaskan and a 5 minute Lee Dot. A BIG aiming point with a fair degree of built in range estimation.(If the dot covers more than back to brisket, he's a long way off)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2007 at 12:26
ceylonc View Drop Down
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Originally posted by rootmanslim rootmanslim wrote:

I'm glad to see someone else shares my confusion about what idiot ever came up with Mil-Dots. You need a table taped to the stock to use them and anyone hunting big game at responsible ranges can use the duplex as a holdover device or if varmints can buy a rangefinder that will tell you the exact range and thus holdover. In all cases "holdover" for big game is more a theory than a fact since if you use the old O'Connor rule of 3"s high at 100, you will be dead on between 225-300 with any modern round and still in the kill zone at 300-375 with a dead on hold. The guides I know say the almost all misses are over rather than under as folks want to coax the crosshairs up a bit. The more complex the reticule the more opportunity to screw things up in the excitment of seeing the "big one".Remember O'Connor killed almost everything with a 2.5X Lyman Alaskan and a 5 minute Lee Dot. A BIG aiming point with a fair degree of built in range estimation.(If the dot covers more than back to brisket, he's a long way off)

 

My GOSH 'root, is the glass ALWAYS half empty with you!!!!

 

I'll beg to disagree with regard to the usability of mil dot reticles.  I agree that a mil dot is not the best reticle to use for big game hunting.  However, guitarman indicated that he would be shooting varmints, not elk, etc.  I do NOT use a mil dot for ranging.  If you notice above, I mentioned that a target should be ranged, as in with a laser rangefinder (I didn't mention "laser" specifically but that is what I meant).  When I practice at the range, I'll vary between 50yds-600yds.  I zero @ 100yds and then shoot at the varying ranges, simply lining up the crosshairs with the bullseye.  Note the point of impacts with the closest dot on the reticle and then PRACTICE using the dots for holdover aimpoints.  It's not hard to memorize the dot to be used per distance and it keeps you from wasting time clicking to your come-ups. 

 

This "system" has worked very well for me.  It greatly improves speed and confidence in your setup.  If you're a varminter (which guitarman mentioned would be his usage on the 22/250) then a laser rangefinder should be in your rucksack just ammo, etc.  He didn't mention an intention to hunt big game with this scope so I believe that a mil dot is relevant to his usage.  You also MUST practice if you want to be successful.  Sure, many shooters miss high but that is more due to not practicing enough with their rifle at varying distances. 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2007 at 12:28
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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 This is really of the topic of the post but---Point of correction- I'm not confused about mil-dot--either in how it is used, or using it or why it is a standard. My comment is directed to those just getting started shooting who want to have the "tact" look, and the difference between those who are not under a time pressure shot (dial in shooters). Simply that there are hold over reticles faster and more "accurate". The purpose for the mil-dot, obviously, was standardization and instruction to group of people brought forward for a specific job purpose, who have neither the means (but probably the desire) to hit sh*t at a long range.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2007 at 12:43
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The Burris catches my eye, although I have heard rather mixed reviews about the Fullfield II.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2007 at 12:57
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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Ok-I give what does that have to do with your first post?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2007 at 12:58
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I have a FullField II that I bought on the "scope & spotting scope for $199.99" deal. I sold the spotter on Ebay and kept the scope. It has a usable hold over multi line reticule and looks as good a my friend's leupold rifleman optics wise. I like the Euro focus, it "shoots the square" just fine and does not change impact with power change. I have it on the old (cheap) Tikka sniper/match rifle which were all sub MOA tack drivers. Mine is a 308 (would love to one in find a 22-250) and the scope has handled about 400 rounds w/o complaint.
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