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VX OR Z5

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2013 at 06:21
floridamark View Drop Down
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As the title says I am looking or a new scope for my Savage 16 Weather Warrior in 270. Just got back from a hunt in south Texas. I am currently running a Bushnell 6500 2.5-16X50 and was very surprised at the poor lowlight ability. The two I am torn between are.

Leopold 3-18x50 VX-6 30mm

·  Matte

·  FireDot Duplex

·  30mm

·  Side Focus

·  Fast Focus Eyepiece

·  Xtended Twilight Lens System

·  DiamondCoat 2 (Scratch Resistance Lens)

·  Lead and Arsenic-Free Glass Lenses

·  CDS Capable and Includes one free Custom Ballistic Dial

Swarovski 3.5-18x44 Z5 Riflescope

·  Matte

·  4W

·  1"

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2013 at 07:06
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I have had several alpha class scopes. I am pretty pleased right now at how well my 6500 2.5-16x42 stacks up.
 
But if hunted a lot , all over the place..........and going off the two you have listed. I'd probably look hard at the new Zeiss Conquest HD5 3-15x42 plex with the AVS turrets. It is priced right for all of the features it has.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2013 at 08:00
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Welcome floridamark! I am a self-confessed Swaro slut (and rather biased) so I'd vote for the Z 5. Currently, I am running 4 Swaros on different rifles and all have been fantastic in all hunting scenarios utilized. However, I do like the Firedot duplex also. If you are strictly low light worried, I'd also take a look at the Trijicon Accupoint series. Good luck and lets see what others on here have to say. Wink
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2013 at 09:59
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I am a self-confessed Swaro slut wanna-be... so I'd vote for the Z 5 as well.  cbm brings up a valid point with the Zeiss and I would go that route before getting a Leupold.  Never been all that impressed with Leupold, but I have not looked thru the VX-6 and can't speak to it specifically.

Just wondering.... what power were you using with the 6500 that you weren't happy with its low light ability?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2013 at 13:06
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14x at 435 yards just as the sun started to come up. I ended up hunting the rest of my trip with my DPMS LR308L and Vortex Razor 5-20x50 EBR2B. And took at nice 11 point that scored 178. Maybe my 2 vortex razors have runied me I also run a Razor 1-6 on my 3 gun rifle.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2013 at 13:34
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It's always amazing to me how some can recommend scopes they've never seen (Conquest HD).  If you put a VX6 2-12x42 up next to a Z5 you'd be hard pressed to tell any noticeable difference.  I've done it many times.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2013 at 13:47
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Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

It's always amazing to me how some can recommend scopes they've never seen (Conquest HD).  If you put a VX6 2-12x42 up next to a Z5 you'd be hard pressed to tell any noticeable difference.  I've done it many times.  


I may have missed it, on this thread who recommended a Conquest HD(5) and also said they never saw that Conquest model before?



http://swfa.com/Zeiss-Conquest-HD5-Rifle-Scopes-C4913.aspx
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2013 at 14:53
Tip69 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

It's always amazing to me how some can recommend scopes they've never seen (Conquest HD).  If you put a VX6 2-12x42 up next to a Z5 you'd be hard pressed to tell any noticeable difference.  I've done it many times.  


Its called biased............ which I am.   thought it was pretty obvious from my post.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2013 at 15:03
Tip69 View Drop Down
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14x it pretty high for that time of day I'm thinking...  50/14 = 3.57 exit pupil... that's not much light getting in.  I'm not an expert but you'd need a pretty big objective bell to get good low light performance at that power.  Even a 56mm only gives you 4.0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2013 at 15:46
floridamark View Drop Down
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I would agree but with the Razor at 15 was clear as a bell, as well as my hunting buddy's Z6I 3-18X50 was even clearer than my Razor.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2013 at 15:54
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there ya go....  I see a Swaro in your future!  or another Razor.  either way, you're in good hands!

btw.... when you get er all set up, we love pics!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2013 at 16:23
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My 6500 is not good in low light on 14-16x either. But my shots are under 300 yrds and thats on the longest side. Backed down to around 12x my 6500 does really well but gets flair on the upper end.
JGraider, I said he aught to take a look. And while I know your a big Luepold man and I agree with you on a lot of real world hunting scenario's with mid range scopes vs alpha scopes...........I can say without looking at either one of them , that I would buy an HD5 over a VX6 for $900. There is no disputing the T* coatings that have kept Zeiss on top for low light scopes and your getting hydrophobic coatings on the HD5 for the same money as the VX6. They both have great customer service and warranty. I recommended it because I "believe" the optics on the HD5 will be as good as the Z5 Swaro mentioned, if not better, and the HD5 has hydrophobic coatings where the Z5 does not . And the Z5 costs $600 more !
 
I want a Leica ER or Swaro Z6 but for the money..........the HD5 looks like it's going to take a lot of business !! Lot of scope for the cash!! One of the best things the VX6 had going for it was price and now Zeiss has went head to head on that !
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2013 at 17:13
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Since this is biased... I would go with which ever one is the lightest. ;)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2013 at 21:28
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My Swarovski Z3 has very good low light performance.  I shot my elk this year at 12x at the very last few minutes of legal shooting light at 360 yards.  No problem.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2013 at 21:42
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Another Swaro fan here.

We had a guest at the club this past year and while at the cabin around dusk he was showing everyone how good his Zeiss Victory performed in low light. I looked through his scope, then passed him my rifle with z6 (basically the same power range/objective/reticle).  As he looked through it his eyes bugged; "wow", that's a real good one too!!! "I know"... 
Big Smile
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2013 at 06:50
floridamark View Drop Down
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I put this one in the ring:

 

Leica 3.5-14x42 ER 30mm Rifle Scope

How ever there is  to much i llike about the Swarovski 3.5-18x44 Z5 Riflescope 
with BT and 4w I think this will be the one I replace the 6500 with. It just seems to meet all my needs.  And because of the 44 I can mount it lower.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2013 at 09:12
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Originally posted by mike650 mike650 wrote:

Another Swaro fan here.

We had a guest at the club this past year and while at the cabin around dusk he was showing everyone how good his Zeiss Victory performed in low light. I looked through his scope, then passed him my rifle with z6 (basically the same power range/objective/reticle).  As he looked through it his eyes bugged; "wow", that's a real good one too!!! "I know"... 
Big Smile


They are both fantastic.....and they ought to be for $2000+.  Remember there is lots more to making up a great hunting scope than great glass alone. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2013 at 09:31
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Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:




They are both fantastic.....and they ought to be for $2000+.  Remember there is lots more to making up a great hunting scope than great glass alone. 



Absolutely!!

The one I have is built very well, passed the rugged test many times as it's taken a few hits while hunting, no issues keeping it dialed in, great in low light, love the FOV and #4 reticle, lastly top shelf CS if ever needed. I'll venture to say you'll find the same for the Victory. I was fortunate to get my Swaro while they were well below 2k a few years back.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2013 at 10:53
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Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:


Remember there is lots more to making up a great hunting scope than great glass alone. 


I realize you were just baiting with this comment, but that comment always cracks me up.  As if a company is going to offer the best glass possible and then build the rest of the scope to pure crap standards.  Give me a break.  I dare bet the high quality glass is one of the more expensive parts of the optic.  So to come up with the comment that Swaro's and Zeiss are just scopes with good glass is ludicrous. 

My Z6 rides on a less than 6 lb 300 wsm, that kicks like a mule.  During hunting season it rides around on a bumpy gun rack on my wheeler.  I fell in the slow last season and smacked my whole rifle scope first into the ground.  It kept its zero and the scope is just fine once I cleaned the mud and snow off.  They will hold up just as well as your precious Leupolds will. 

 


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2013 at 11:10
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Rather than read the flaming above, I'll address the original poster's question.

In general, Leupold isn't the best option.  About 20 years ago, they were top of the heap, everyone improved their stuff, leupold sold on name.  In recent years, they have made improvements, but they do not yet warrant my cash.

I have handled a few of their newer offerings and thought they were much better than their stuff from 5-10 years ago, but far from best of the best.

In contrast, Swaro makes great stuff, great glass, great customer service.  I am not a fan of the ballistic turret, but it does work.  I much prefer, for a hunter, capped turrets and a ballistic reticle.

Were it my money, It'd go to Swaro.  Maybe in 5 more years Leupold will be back in the game, but for now, you are paying for name recognition they earned many years ago.

Be advised, the trick to low light is low magnification.  Cranking even a $3000 scope up to 18X in low light will result in poor performance, unless the scope has a 100mm objective.

Additionally, there might be other options that are a better fit.  At what max ranges are you taking shots?  Are you hunting with binos and/or spotter, or just rifle scope?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2013 at 13:40
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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

Rather than read the flaming above, I'll address the original poster's question.

In general, Leupold isn't the best option.  About 20 years ago, they were top of the heap, everyone improved their stuff, leupold sold on name.  In recent years, they have made improvements, but they do not yet warrant my cash.

I have handled a few of their newer offerings and thought they were much better than their stuff from 5-10 years ago, but far from best of the best.

In contrast, Swaro makes great stuff, great glass, great customer service.  I am not a fan of the ballistic turret, but it does work.  I much prefer, for a hunter, capped turrets and a ballistic reticle.

Were it my money, It'd go to Swaro.  Maybe in 5 more years Leupold will be back in the game, but for now, you are paying for name recognition they earned many years ago.

Be advised, the trick to low light is low magnification.  Cranking even a $3000 scope up to 18X in low light will result in poor performance, unless the scope has a 100mm objective.

Additionally, there might be other options that are a better fit.  At what max ranges are you taking shots?  Are you hunting with binos and/or spotter, or just rifle scope?


All things considered the most disappointing about the VX-6 is the bulk and weight... far from "light" weight and compact.

I would take a z3/vx3 over an vx6 any day.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2013 at 13:50
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It depends on which z6 you're looking at but your right, with the 30mm tube, it has a little more mass vs. 1" tube. The z3 3-9x36 is by far the winner for compact and light weight that's for sure.




Edited by mike650 - January/28/2013 at 14:14
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2013 at 14:04
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Well, since several of you guys are just guessing what I meant, I'll go ahead and tell you, at least in one instance, what i meant when I said glass isn't the only criteria.  I've seen most all the highest end stuff, and owned an S&B Summit with duplex reticle.  The thin wires of the duplex reticle were razor thin, and made for a not so great last light scope in light of the supreme glass it had.    The eyebox at higher mags was also not very user friendly.  I also had a SwaroA, at the time only a $750 scope.   After hacking a 140 yard shot at a 190" muley buck, it was determined it had a wandering POI and wouldn't hold zero.  Erector was toast.  Swaro fixed it, I sold it.    Then there's the large oculars that some of the euro scopes have that require higher rings, etc.  I'm not fond of those either.  I'm very fond of the Elite 4200, Conqests, VX3, VX6, and FX3 right now.  Glass is plenty good enough past legal light.  If any of them give me trouble they'll likely go down the road too.  The Conquest HD has my interest right now but I'm not going to pass judgement until I have one mounted on a rifle and use it.  

I have no bias, and could care less what people use or buy.  None of my business, and more power to those who like the high $$ Euros.  I used to be one of those.  I will say this though (flame suit on)...the VX6 is the most user friendly variable I've ever seen, especially at higher mags.  It compares very favorably optically with my buddy's Z3 and Z5 and the duplex reticle is perfect for my 52 yr old eyes.  After only 200 rounds, dials are on the money.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2013 at 14:13
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Max 500 Yards. Both Max range 500 yards or so. Both binos and/or spotter.  What scope do you see as a better option?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2013 at 14:42
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Originally posted by floridamark floridamark wrote:

Max 500 Yards. Both Max range 500 yards or so. Both binos and/or spotter.  What scope do you see as a better option?

I'm not sure I understand your question.
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