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VV 2x7 Achilles heel??

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2011 at 05:46
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I have found that in low light if the eye is not dead on behind the scope the image is completely washed off, almost like a reflection effect/bounce of light. Not a good thing, especially when you have deer moving in the background and don't feel confident enough to take an otherwise easy shot.
 
Has anyone else noticed this?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2011 at 06:32
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Not sure what you are talking about I have one and also mounted one on another guys rifle yesterday that did not seem to have that issue. These things have a really good warranty send it in and have them check it out.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2011 at 07:32
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Made in China.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2011 at 07:43
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Originally posted by quarterbore quarterbore wrote:

Made in China.
wrong.  DOn't post if you don't know. THe only vortex made in China is the crossfire.  The vipers for the most part were made in teh phillipeans last it was told.


Edited by SVT_Tactical - January/29/2011 at 07:45
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2011 at 07:45
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Originally posted by gcp gcp wrote:

I have found that in low light if the eye is not dead on behind the scope the image is completely washed off, almost like a reflection effect/bounce of light. Not a good thing, especially when you have deer moving in the background and don't feel confident enough to take an otherwise easy shot.
 
Has anyone else noticed this?


I have not noticed this.  Are you facing a light source, like the setting sun?  It sounds like veiling glare, and most rifle scopes suffer from it a bit under certain conditions.  My Viper shows very little glare of any kind.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2011 at 08:08
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True enough I was facing west but the sun had set quite a while back. It was almost too dark to shoot that's why this is perplexing. I have two of these scopes so I'll give the second a try before I claim it's the particular scope but I tend to think that more than likely it's the smaller tube size that's the culprit. I had an unmounted 6x24 Osprey 50mm that I also looked through at the same time and the POA came through much better.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2011 at 08:47
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Tube size, as has been told by many, many experts has nothing to do with light transmission. The bigger objective of your Osprey, especially if the magnification was turned down, probably helped in the low-light. Sounds like to me, you might want to work on getting a repeatable cheek-weld, and then re-mount the scope accordingly. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2011 at 09:09
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billy, trust me when I say that the repeatable cheek weld is there....and it doesn't change by itself only at low light.
 
As for tube size, I've heard/read all that before but my experience shows otherwise. Size does matter but lets not get into this particular subject yet again Big Smile


Edited by gcp - January/29/2011 at 09:10
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2011 at 10:04
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Originally posted by Bitterroot Bulls Bitterroot Bulls wrote:

Originally posted by gcp gcp wrote:

I have found that in low light if the eye is not dead on behind the scope the image is completely washed off, almost like a reflection effect/bounce of light. Not a good thing, especially when you have deer moving in the background and don't feel confident enough to take an otherwise easy shot.
 
Has anyone else noticed this?


I have not noticed this.  Are you facing a light source, like the setting sun?  It sounds like veiling glare, and most rifle scopes suffer from it a bit under certain conditions.  My Viper shows very little glare of any kind.

I stand corrected and I apologize for not reading the post completely.  You are correct and in fact many of the higher end scopes and other optics, from what I have read, as I do not own any Vortex products, are actually made in Japan.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2011 at 13:27
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I have not noticed this on my 2-7 viper, and most of my hunting is in very low light. I will take it out this evening and check again...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2011 at 14:06
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Originally posted by gcp gcp wrote:

True enough I was facing west but the sun had set quite a while back. It was almost too dark to shoot that's why this is perplexing. I have two of these scopes so I'll give the second a try before I claim it's the particular scope but I tend to think that more than likely it's the smaller tube size that's the culprit. I had an unmounted 6x24 Osprey 50mm that I also looked through at the same time and the POA came through much better.

your comparing 50mm to 32mm that makes a huge difference.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2011 at 14:17
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So, like I said before size does matter!

 

All kidding aside, I still like my vipers (and absolutely love my 6x24 target in every respect) but there seems to be an inherent weakness in the 2x7’s low light capability. I'll retest during this evening's hunt and get back to you. I’ve already bagged my venison for the year so studying this VV will give me something to do.



Edited by gcp - January/29/2011 at 14:19
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2011 at 14:30
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as long as your not on 6-7x it should still perform ok in low light. on 2-3x power it should work really well.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2011 at 15:06
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A couple of comments:

30mm vs 1" tube.  Whatever optical differences you are attributing to the tube diameter are coincidental.  If you want to have a discussion on that, we can do it in a new thread.  The effect you are seeing with the Viper has NOTHING to do with the tube size.

On Viper's low light performance, at which magnification do you see it?  If you are at a magnification where you eye pupil exceed the exit pupil of the scope, you can see all sorts of strange effects.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2011 at 15:08
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Originally posted by gcp gcp wrote:

So, like I said before size does matter!

 

All kidding aside, I still like my vipers (and absolutely love my 6x24 target in every respect) but there seems to be an inherent weakness in the 2x7’s low light capability. I'll retest during this evening's hunt and get back to you. I’ve already bagged my venison for the year so studying this VV will give me something to do.


Just for the record, there is no 6-24x model in the Viper line.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2011 at 19:57
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ILya, my memory banks are probably failing me, maybe it's 6.5x20 44mm and I'm confusing it with my new 6x24 Osprey? That’s what happens when I try to do too many things at the same time. I'll check when I get home.

 
"If you are at a magnification where you eye pupil exceed the exit pupil of the scope, you can see all sorts of strange effects". This is good input and yes it was magnification but the fact remains that the eye does have to be absolutely dead center behind the scope. I played with it this evening and at low light even the least bit of eye misalignment, especially lower, produces a total white-out. Still a great scope for the money!
  


Edited by gcp - January/29/2011 at 20:00
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2011 at 20:16
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Originally posted by gcp gcp wrote:

ILya, my memory banks are probably failing me, maybe it's 6.5x20 44mm and I'm confusing it with my new 6x24 Osprey? That’s what happens when I try to do too many things at the same time. I'll check when I get home.

 
"If you are at a magnification where you eye pupil exceed the exit pupil of the scope, you can see all sorts of strange effects". This is good input and yes it was magnification but the fact remains that the eye does have to be absolutely dead center behind the scope. I played with it this evening and at low light even the least bit of eye misalignment, especially lower, produces a total white-out. Still a great scope for the money!
  

When you played with it today, what magnification were you at?

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/30/2011 at 07:06
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Across the board. Gets worst with upper magnification, and I still don't believe there's anything wrong with the scope, it's the nature of its size, design & fab.
 
So, am I to deduce that a scope's bell size does not play into the light gathering properties of it at all?


Edited by gcp - January/30/2011 at 07:07
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/30/2011 at 07:57
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Exit eye pupil is determined by deviding the obective (front lens size) by what power you have the scope at.    A 7mm exit eye pupil is bright as it gets for a young man.    I understand what you are talking about and have had a Burris that had a really small eye box so you had to have your eye in exactly the perfect spot or you couldnt see through the scope. That is one area where leupold seems to do well  as you get anywhere close to the back of the scope you could see through them. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/30/2011 at 09:37
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Originally posted by gcp gcp wrote:

 
So, am I to deduce that a scope's bell size does not play into the light gathering properties of it at all?
The scope objective (or bell as you define it) has everything to do with what light your scope has to use.  You seem to have the objective size and tube size mixed up.  The objective is just that, the size of the objective.  The tube size is the size of the body of the scope, where you place the rings.  This is typically either one inch, or 30mm, in some scopes.  This tube is what has nothing to do with light transmission.  Use of terminology can have a lot to do with what answers you get to your question.

Edited by Klamath - January/30/2011 at 09:39
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/30/2011 at 10:25
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/30/2011 at 13:37
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Kla, you are 100% correct, it's all about terminology but then again that's why you're a journeyman, you still haven't learned how to read minds.....and don't know what billys problem is as he ought to be able to read minds by now Big Grin
 
All kidding aside, this thread has been informative, thanks!


Edited by gcp - January/30/2011 at 13:39
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/30/2011 at 13:55
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Originally posted by gcp gcp wrote:

Kla, you are 100% correct, it's all about terminology but then again that's why you're a journeyman, you still haven't learned how to read minds.....and don't know what billys problem is as he ought to be able to read minds by now Big Grin
 
All kidding aside, this thread has been informative, thanks!
It's a good thing you pressed the point a little to the point where you said bell end.  Otherwise everybody would still be on different pages, answering questions not really asked!  If you don't ask you don't get the answer.  Hope you are square with this issue now. Smile
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