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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2011 at 18:49
workingmanGary View Drop Down
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I'm starting to suspect that this web sight is sponsored by Vortex scopes. Every other topic ends with Vortex scopes! And while I'm at it I got another thing to get off my back. I have a hard time believing that some of these 1500 dollar German scopes are 4-5 times better than a 3-400 dollar Burris,Leupold or Millett. I go out on opening day with as much made in U.S.A. equip. as possable. I hunt with a older Savage 111 "06" that I payed 225 for added a 95 dollar trigger kit and a 100 dollar Millett Buck gold scope. All together around 500 bucks and it shoots 1" groops at the range and drops deer dead.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2011 at 19:06
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Gary,

Why are you shouting?

Where are you finding German scopes for $1500?  I hope SWFA will price match.

Where was that Millett made?

I would recommend trying a Vortex scope.  End topic.


Edited by Bitterroot Bulls - January/03/2011 at 19:07
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2011 at 19:14
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Nobody said $1500 German scopes were 4-5 times better than $3-400 scopes. I assure you they are better, but at some point, you hit the point of dimishing returns. For me, the $3-400 scopes represent a great value. I'm sure many here feel the same. I don't know where you got this notion from. As far as Vortex goes, do you have something against them? Do you own one? Maybe the fact that they make very nice optics for the price, with an excellent warranty, and great customer service has something to do with their popularity.......But who likes great optics, fair prices, and good warranties in one scope anyway?
 
And no I don't work for Vortex, nor am I a Vortex fanboy. My recent obsession is with Zeiss, but I can't ignore Vortex's business plan. They have a lot going for them right now.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2011 at 19:16
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 D'd!! Tone it down! We're not all deaf here. Or maybe cut back on the caffiene.
 
 
 First off Vortex produces outstanding products and stands behind them 110%.  It just so happens that they're discontinuing some models and are offering them at prices that will get a customer into a better class of optics. Hence our push of them.  Awhile back Bushnell with it's 3-9 4200 was doing the same thing. We here will ALWAYS try to get the customer the best bang for their buck no matter who produces the product.
  As far as the high $$$$ scopes being worth the many extra $$$$$?  That's something each person must decide for themselves.
  Your rifle?  Doesn't surprise me one bit.  Savage rifles are accurate. 
  Your scope? I have no experience with any Millet.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2011 at 19:17
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There are many scopes that get recommended to people who ask questions.  It just happens that Vortex makes a good product for a good price, so it gets recommended.  I have tested some of the Vortex scopes, and they make a good product and back it with a great warranty.   There are other scope makers that get recommended just as much if you read through the posts.

As Bitterroot said, try one.  You might just be the next to recommend them after you do.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2011 at 19:25
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Your generalizations are inaccurate, and  inaccuracy usually leads to exaggeration.

Funny though that a Vortex banner appears, at least on this refresh, under your complaint.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2011 at 19:29
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Howdy Gary.


You're a hunter, God love ya! You're using decent gear and getting good results. A lot of us here do it just the same way. 


Vortex has some good deals right now, so YUP you're seeing them pushed pretty hard. It's not part of some agenda, it's economics. Burris has some really good deals right now and you might notice them getting pushed a bit too. Before those it was the Nikon team primos, and before that it was something else. I'm figuring next it's going to be big sales on the discontinued Bushnell 3200 and 4200 series. 


I couldn't say as to whether any scope is worth what a lot of scopes cost. I don't have the extra squid to spend on em, and all my hunting buddies are poor too. Now I have looked through a bottom of the line Ziess 3-9 x 40 and it was better than anything I own. Not a little better, but quite a bit better. My stuff works for what I'm doing with it, sounds like yours does as well. Now if a bad guy is holding a gun on my wife, I hope the sniper on the rooftop has the BEST glass and gun combo out there. "and of course the training"  The right tool for the right job, and some jobs call for gear beyond what I will pay for. I'm glad it's there, and just as glad I don't have a job where I'd need it. "I salute the guys who are put into harms way, and whatever gear makes their job easier, they should have it"


Buy what makes you happy man. 





Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2011 at 09:59
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Good post neilbilly. You could not have put it any better:-)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2011 at 11:56
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Hey, Gary:

Another hunter here. We all gotta spend our $ where we think it works best for us. Sites like this give us a chance to see what others think, but we still gotta make own choices.

Lots o' folks swear by Leupold glass, but my eyes disagree. Others swear by Zeiss Diavari / Swaro scopes, but my eyes can't tell the difference between those scopes and the $400 models. Many, many people seem to think Vortex offers scopes at $200-ish that will hang with $400 models from other mfgrs. My eyes happen to agree with this. If you haven't checked them out yet, you might want to give 'em a look.

I haven't needed Vortex customer service, but word is nearly universal that it's top-notch. And since the Internet works by spreading bad news at 1000x the speed of good news, a good reputation is generally very well-earned.

So, use your own eyes, then, come back here & tell us what YOU see.

FC
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2011 at 12:31
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Originally posted by workingmanGary workingmanGary wrote:

I'm starting to suspect that this web sight is sponsored by Vortex scopes.no swfa is not vortex owned Every other topic ends with Vortex scopes! They make a good scope you should try one And while I'm at it I got another thing to get off my back. Here we go I have a hard time believing that some of these 1500 dollar German scopes are 4-5 times better than a 3-400 dollar Burris,Leupold or Millett. I go out on opening day with as much made in U.S.A. equip. as possable.Thats great. I hunt with a older Savage 111 "06" that I payed 225 for added a 95 dollar trigger kit and a 100 dollar Millett Buck gold scope. All together around 500 bucks sounds like you got a good deal and it shoots 1" groops at the range and drops deer dead. 1" I would work on that if I were you I bet some guys at the mall can help you fix that in no time. I have a rifle that will drop them dead also its a 22LR with iron's.it shoot 1/2" "groops" all day long if I do my part.

 

 Howdy welcome to the OT Gary.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2011 at 13:21
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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How did it get from vortex to german scopes, but your right they aren't 4-5 times better-- its probably more like 6-7 times better (depending on the comparison). There is alot of shooting going on out there that isn't spelled hunting.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2011 at 13:41
supertool73 View Drop Down
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Well as a fairly new owner of a Swaro Z6 and a long time owner of many $100 to $500 scopes.  Those fancy German scopes really are a lot better.  If I had the cash I would buy one for every rifle I own without question.  But all my rifles except maybe 1 or 2 will continue to have the $300 to $500 scope living on them.  But man I do loving looking through that Swaro. 

Oh and my Vortex Viper closeout scope I am very happy with.  Same with my Burris closeout scope, and my Bushnell 4200s that were on a great sale.  


Edited by supertool73 - January/04/2011 at 13:42
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2011 at 14:18
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"workingman", I am one of the biggest proponents of AMERICAN MADE products there is.  If I could purchase everything of the quality I want "Made in America", I certainly would.  However, I CAN see the difference between top-of-the-line Zeiss, Hensoldt, Swarovski, Kahles, etc and Leupold, Burris, etc, regardless of whether some others can or cannot...  The question is do I NEED it or just WANT it.  In some cases need drives the expenditure, but if I can possibly cut corners/cost, I do so.  IF I do purchase a relatively low dollar scope, I spend a lot of time trying to break it under "normal usage" conditions before I will ever take it to a place where I depend on it.  If I do depend on it, I know I can.  I'm not tied to someone else's determination of what will or won't work.  I use the advice of people I respect to "steer" me in certain directions, but always depend on my own final analysis through testing to guide my final purchase and usage.  I have, in the past, saved for a very long time to get some of the scopes and rifles I own.  Because of personal commitments and circumstances, I once went through a 15 year period where I did not purchase for myself a single new item, other than transportation and clothes.  Fortunately, I had some "trade goods" that allowed me to continue some of my hobbies, but it was quite limiting. 
It is great that you have such success with your described rifle/scope setup.  Personally, I am very happy for you in that you have what you like.  This is an Optics oriented forum that also allows discussion on rifles, handguns, rings, bases, targets... virtually anything that has to do with shooting sports or professions.  Occasionally, SWFA or the OT forum members identify specials so that members of the forum shooting community may take advantage IF they are so inclined.  The intent is to save people time and money in acquiring those things related to shooting that they may want or need.  There is certainly no obligation to take the advice of anyone here.  Neither should you denegrate that advice.  The majority of members are experienced shooters with a wide background in equpment.  There are a number of current and former LEO, soldiers, Marines, benchrest shooters, and just backyard shooters, who participate in the forum.  It is all provided free of charge and with the best of intentions.  Sponsored by SWFA. 
There is a tendency, human nature, to be partial to things one already possesses or covets.  Hence, sometimes there is a sense of bias toward some items.  However, if you take the time to read some of the older posts, and this forum maintains a HUGE database, you will find that quality, utility, durability, overall useabilty are the most common factors involved in any reommendations put forward here, at least from the long time members.  No one really has an agenda, except for the occasional "troll", but SWFA does have rules about usage of the forum it provides for all our benefit.  We all welcome contributions from anyone who has knowledge and questions from anyone who requires information.  WELCOME to the Optics Talk Forum... you are encouraged to be a contributor...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2011 at 14:31
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Where are the entirely American-made scopes anyway?
 
Leupold and Burris (and probably US Optics as well) all outsource some parts (namely glass) from foreign suppliers.
 
Is there such thing as anything made entirely in the US anymore?  That is really a rhetorical question, but I'm betting the list of goods that meet that description in the strictest sense is pretty short.
 
You won't find anyone who likes to buy stuff made in the US more than me, but it seems I don't get to make that choice most of the time. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2011 at 14:33
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Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Where are the entirely American-made scopes anyway?
 
Leupold and Burris (and probably US Optics as well) all outsource some parts (namely glass) from foreign suppliers.
 
Is there such thing as anything made entirely in the US anymore?  That is really a rhetorical question, but I'm betting the list of goods that meet that description in the strictest sense is pretty short.
 
You won't find anyone who likes to buy stuff made in the US more than me, but it seems I don't get to make that choice most of the time. 

ExcellentExcellent

boots are that way too, only a hand full of danner boots are "assembled" here, and you pay dearly for them, but they hold up a hell of a lot better than any of the "imported" models do. in the optics world, that doesnt hold true. most of the best optics in the world come from somewhere else.

Excellent
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2011 at 14:49
338LAPUASLAP View Drop Down
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I wish LEUPOLD wasn't the new owner of  REDFIELD, Or I wish they had not thought so lowly of the Redfield name to junk it up with the sub par scopes.

I think that the demise of Redfield was the demise of the last manufacture in the sub $1k+ American Made (or assembled bought glass/lenses) category.

I hold the older models in high esteem and would gladly sell you a 6-18 or old 3-9 if you so choose they were made out of CO, U.S.A. and I feel they are superb, they are not as good at transmitting light but have a seemingly wider FOV and do allow for good color and contrast.  They are however not able to be serviced but with one company I have used called ABO. 

I am younger but I do appreciate buying American made products, I do however also contribute to taking German Made Products off the Shelf at the local Gunshops when they show up used, and I have bought mostly German Glass till more recently.

My issue right now is price and high quality or at least repeatability and price.  I then go to optic clarity, contrast, and seeming brightness and or intensity of light and distinguish-ability and low light characteristics.

If you could tell me what scope is Made Here in the USA that isn't in Leupold's New Line that is sub $500, I am not a fan of any of the Burris product they all seem dark to me, that has the above qualities for the price of a Millet I am all ears. I do not believe Millet to be an equal of the VORTEX you spoke of, I did trade a Zeiss for a VORTEX and believe VORTEX to be very respectable and in-line but not by any means superior to Zeiss...

I would have never thought Vortex could even come close but was a little humbled by the comparability of the TWO...

Again I would by AMERICAN MADE products as well if they existed for this price range of your millet to say $500, I still have 4 scopes I need to replace and harvest the cash to have almost entirely sub $750 scopes that I wouldn't give up for the world...

If when possible I see an old Redfield I buy it as fast as I can just due to its "heritage" if I can call it that.  I wish they Launched all of the "prototypes" when Meade Purchased them  they looked like they were going to be a fantastic scope line, not bashing the new Leupold line but it just doesn't do the Redfield name justice...

sorry about the tangents but i humbly think that the USA should be able to deliver a sub $500 scope in a 3-9 or 4-Something that is on PAR with Zeiss...

The only company I know of that is focusing on customers and their input or feedback and keeping the prices respectable that even though they are foreign made and assembled but are receiving profits and generating income IS SWFA with the Super Sniper Line which I own 4 of...

So when it comes down to it my selfish ambition and vein conceit it only allows me to purchase from them because I feel they are as American as they can be since no manufacture overhere will do it for a respectable price and achieve the success they have with adopting a policy of listening and delivering(even if a little slower than we wish)  what the customer base is requesting a high quality and repeatable product that achieves this blend of mechanical soundness and decent glass...

And since they rep the VORTEX line and support the products they sell thus supporting the AMERICAN public of hunters and paper punchers and possibly even LEO and other military personal even if not through direct contract I believe coming on here and bashing the fact they are delivering these reasonable products to us is unnecessary slander and is just blatant disrespect...

GO SWFA...

GO VORTEX...

GO SUPER SNIPER...

oh yeah GO VORTEX...


Edited by 338LAPUASLAP - January/04/2011 at 16:10
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2011 at 14:53
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if your impressed with vortex's optics, you will be more impressed with the people in wisconsin that work in the office. they would give you the shirt off their backs and loan you the car they drive if you needed it. both of the reps here  on the ot are top notch in my book. great company with great people working behind the name and its products.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2011 at 18:41
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I'm sorry if I offended anyone I honestly never heard of Vortex until I joined this forum,and I have nothing against German optics. I just wanted to get some of you guys worked up so that you would respond. Great hearing from you guys. I'm going to check out one of these Vortex scopes when I get a chance. peace out. American Flag
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2011 at 19:04
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Excellent    great posts by everybody and i though the post's by  NEIBILLY KICKBOXER and LAPUA hit the proverbial nail on the head. to be honest im new here and cant really contribute often but i do ask questions when i need help. thanks to everybody, this forum and to swfa for keeping the lights on.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2011 at 19:18
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Originally posted by workingmanGary workingmanGary wrote:

I'm sorry if I offended anyone I honestly never heard of Vortex until I joined this forum,and I have nothing against German optics. I just wanted to get some of you guys worked up so that you would respond. Great hearing from you guys. I'm going to check out one of these Vortex scopes when I get a chance. peace out. American Flag

QUIT YELLING...

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2011 at 19:22
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this is your indoor voice.... this is your outside voice please use your indoor voice..Baseball Bat hahahaha
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2011 at 19:25
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Originally posted by Mr. Terror Mr. Terror wrote:

this is your indoor voice.... this is your outside voice please use your indoor voice..Baseball Bat hahahaha


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2011 at 20:42
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i farted Laugh
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2011 at 20:47
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At least you used your inside voice...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2011 at 20:57
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Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

At least you used your inside voice...

Excellent well part of me didEmbarrased
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