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Vortex Viper vs. Diamondback

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/20/2011 at 16:53
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Hi all.  I just registered after snooping for a while and have a question that I'd like your assistance with.
 
But before that, I'd like to say Thanks for your help in eliminating Minox scopes from my consideration.  I had been considering a couple, but went to the store, looked through them & decided, NOT for me (fuzzy glass at the outside, critical eye releif & eye placement).  Then thought that maybe it was just me, but lo & behold, quite a few people on here are saying the same thing.  I also think that the new Zeiss Conquests are laughable in their lack of quality, at least compared to my DIAVARI's.  I've never cared for Leupolds either.  I should also tell you I don't like cheap (quality, as opposed to quality) scopes.
 
My Ruger 77/22 wears a Zeiss Diatal 4x32;
On my H&R BC switch-barrel rig (22LR, 45-70BC, 12 gau., 50 ML), the ML barrel has a newly-purchased Vortex Viper 2-7x32 (that I just bought & decided I don't care for due to the small FOV at the lower powers);
Geo. Gibbs 256 Gibbs Magnum (Swarovski Habicht Nova 4x32);
FFV CG-80 (Kalhes zg84 6x42 w/ Schott 3x booster);
Holland & Holland switch barrel in 7x57, 30-06, 338-06, 35 Whelan & 9.3x57 (Kahles HELIA S 1.1-4x24 & Kahles HELIA S 2.2-9x42);
Winchester Model 94 30 W.C.F. (Monocross 2.5x20)
Ruger #1A 30-06 (Bausch & Lomb BALVAR 1.5-6x32 & IOR 4x32)
Ruger #1A 303 British (Bausch & Lomb BALVAR 1.5-6x20 & Crown 4x32)
B.S.A.Co. HVST 303 (Bausch & Lomb BALVAR 1.5-6x32 & Bushnell Scopechief 1.5-4.5x20)
Army & Navy HVSR 303 (Zeiss Diavari C 3-9x36 &  Kahles HELIA 1.1-4.5x20)
Hollis, Bentley & Playfair HVSR 303 (Swarovski Habicht Nova A 3-9x36 & Swarovski Habicht Nova 4x32)
Marlin 1894C 357 Mag. (Bushnell Banner 2.5x20)
Fraser 360 Rimless N.E. 2 1/4" (Cross 3-7x32)
W.J. Jeffery 375 H & H (Zeiss Divari 1.5-6x42)
Marlin 1895 45-70 (Bushnell Banner 2.5x20)
Parker-Hale 458 Win. Mag (B&L Balvar 1.5-6x20)
 
The lever action rifles only wear scopes for load development work; otherwise it's irons.
 
My type of hunting is at my cottage in Canadian Shield country (Think Alaskan bush or Washington State or Northern US bush; essentially coniferous forest with lots of muskeg, water & rocks, & usually dusky light; 75 yds. is a LOOONG shot).  As a result, I don't need high magnification, just really good glass & a big FOV for where I hunt.
 
Anyways,  considering I am now retired & don't have a lot of disposable income anymore, I thought with all of the good reviews, I'd take a look at Vortex for some of my rifles whose optics need up grading.
 
So I'm looking at a Vortex Diamondback 2-7x35, to replace the above-noted 2-7x32 Viper, as the FOV is substantially better (64.3 ft., compared to 46.7 in the VV), or maybe a VD in 1.75-5x32 (but this only yields me an additional 4 ft. of view at its lower end).  Also some Vortex Viper HS's in 1.1-4x24 for the lever action rifles; I just wish I could get them with #4 reticles.  I do NOT care for big objective lenses.  I like to mount my scopes down low to get a good cheek weld.  As well, I've noticed that my German/Austrian scopes, even with their small objectives, outclass most of the other stuff out there with massive objective lenses, especially at twilight, & BTW, for my eyes, my older B&L BALVAR's are the closest things I have ever seen to good German / Austrian scopes for low light resolution.
 
What say you folks, vis-a-vis my choice for the replacements, or would you have alternative suggestions?
 
Thanks,
 
Jim
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/20/2011 at 16:54
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/20/2011 at 16:57
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Thank you, Cheaptrick.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/20/2011 at 17:14
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Quote I also think that the new Zeiss Conquests are laughable in their lack of quality


I think that statement is laughable....
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/20/2011 at 17:36
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Welcome


Howdy old gun nut.


I have both Vipers, and Diamondbacks and neither scope optically is close to the current generation Conquest line. Sorry.


Some of the guys here might be able to point you in the right direction on glass better than the current Conquest models. My budget doesn't allow me that level of optics. 


Hope you find something you're happy with. 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/20/2011 at 18:11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/20/2011 at 18:50
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This would be another good option.
 http://swfa.com/Burris-1-4x24-Euro-Diamond-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P48201.aspx
Good Glass, wide FOV, and the #4 reticle. Not to mention a great closeout price since Burris is redoing their lineup.


Edited by biggreen747 - February/20/2011 at 18:55
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/20/2011 at 21:32
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http://swfa.com/Nikon-1-4x20-Monarch-African-Riflescope-P42349.aspx
I have an older version of this scope in 1.5-4.5 and it is a great little scope. Not Diavari class optics but still a good scope with a #4 reticle.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2011 at 01:25
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Interesting first post.  Something tells me that I am probably not qualified to help here, but I am curious to see how it is going to develop.  Tagged for interest, I guess.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2011 at 06:02
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Interesting first post.  Something tells me that I am probably not qualified to help here, but I am curious to see how it is going to develop.  Tagged for interest, I guess.

ILya
I think we are all unworthy...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2011 at 10:22
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New member, but have been looking at the Vortex Viper scopes as well for upcoming elk hunt.  Just contacted a gunsmith out of Montana and he is a big Leupold fan, but he did say the Vortex Viper line is a good scope.  Will run you about $100-$150 cheaper than a VX-3L.  Did some digging and contacted Vortex to find out where their  scopes are made.  Crossfire (China, don't buy), Viper and Diamondback made in the Philippians (probabely same palnt that makes some Nikons) and the upper end Vortex Razor scopes made in Japan.  Hope this helps.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2011 at 12:34
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Kinda my thought as well Illya, if Minox and Zeiss aren't good enough, I believe the man would be sorely disappointed in a Diamondback or Viper. Yikes


We all see things differently "literally" and what's good enough for some is obviously not for others. I got away with Wally World Bushnells for a long time till my eyes started to give out. 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2011 at 13:07
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    No No    NOT with a 10' pole!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2011 at 13:13
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Thanks for your tips so far.
 
JohnFox, I didn't mean the Conquests were laughable in quality overall; just compared to my DIAVARIS (or my Swarovskis, Kahles or Schmidt und Benders).  They should not even have the same name on them.
 
Neilbilly, I fully realize that the Vortex Vipers and Diamondbacks are not close to Conquest quality.  I am prepared to accept that for my muzzleloader scope or my load work up lever action scopes, mainly as a result of financial considerations.  I am caught between the proverbial rock & hard place.  What I would like would be one, or more, of:
Swarovski Z4i 1.25-4x24 or Z6i 1-6x24 ($2,200 & $2,700)
Schmidt & Bender Zenith 1.1-4x24 ($1,820, Flashdot $2,600)
IOR 1.1-4x26 (Not available in Canada, but would be ~$1,200)
Zeiss Victory Varipoint 1.1-4x24 (Not Available in Canada, but if it were it would be ~$3,000),
 
but can't justify that kind of $'s at my age for glass that will just be given to my son or one of my sons-in-law.
 
Bitterroot Bulls, we can't get SuperSniper scopes in Canada because of your export laws.  Aren't they Tasco scopes?
 
BigGreen 747:  Burris Eurodiamond 1-4x24 & Nikon Monarch African Series (& I wouldn't mind seeing a 1.1-4x24 or a 1-4x20) but are not available in Canada.  I previously owned a Nikon Monarch UCC in 2-7x35, but sold it because it appeared dull to me.
 
I don't seem to be making much headway here.
 
Koshkin & Kickboxer:
Why would you say that you are unqualified / unworthy?  Do not both of you work in the technical end of optics firms?  I would think you fellows would be some of the ones most able to steer me in the right direction.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2011 at 13:21
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Originally posted by old gun nut old gun nut wrote:

Bitterroot Bulls, we can't get SuperSniper scopes in Canada because of your export laws.  Aren't they Tasco scopes?


No, they are not.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2011 at 14:29
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http://swfa.com/Weaver-1-5x24-Super-Slam-Dangerous-Game-30mm-Scope-P46109.aspx

Is another that I can think of that is close to what your looking for. Hopefully it is available up there in Canada. I do not have this model but the Weaver scopes I do have (Fixed K Series) are great scopes with glass far better than I expected.

http://swfa.com/Trijicon-125-4x24-Accu-Point-Rifle-Scope-P11305.aspx


Would also be a good choice but may be more than you want to spend if it is even avail in Canada.



Edited by biggreen747 - February/21/2011 at 14:39
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2011 at 16:49
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I'm understanding more now and it's one of those internet rather than talking in person things. 


The Viper would my choice. Owning both, the step up in quality from Diamondback to Viper is substantial. 


Many moons ago, the Super Sniper was a Tasco product. Now they contracted out to a supplier for SWFA and made to their specifications. 


Happy Shooting.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2011 at 19:03
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I guess if you are ready for the downgrade in glass quality compared to the Viper, then have at it.  But I would personally go with the Viper.

Why should the Conquest not have the name Ziess on it?  Should a scope company only make one line of scopes and that is it?  Of course it doesn't compare to your upper line stuff.  That is why it cost half the price or less depending on model.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/22/2011 at 07:49
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All the scopes you all mentioned are good scopes. But when it comes down to it and the only thing standing between a Leupold  VX-3 4.5-14X40mm LR and a simular Vortex Viper scope is about $100-$150 difference go with the proven Leupold.  Great service and great resale value.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/22/2011 at 09:59
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kyblev: I wouldn't touch Leupold with a 10' foot pole, as my original post indicated.  Not on my rifles with my eyes.  I've looked through them & think about older Japanese made Tascos or Redfields.  Mind you I wouldn't buy a scope in that size, period, & if given one, I'd just sell it to buy something I like.  Read what I said above.  I don't need a lot of power like that for my shooting location & I don't like big objective lenses.  I prefer what a few people have called the classic DGR scope.  Small, low-power variable, massive field of view, small objective lens so I can mount the scope low over the barrel, in order to get a good cheek weld for fast, accurate shooting with a quick mount; low inertia if using on a kicker.
 
In any event, all (?) my problem got solved last night ;-).  I just arranged to purchase 5 scopes, 3 Kahles Helia Super 15 / S2 in 1.1-4.5x20 (2 with my favourite #4 reticle, 1 with their #16 reticle), 1 Kahles zf84 in 6x42 (#105 reticle) & an IOR 4x32 (etched 7A reticle), all for $1,000 delivered.  They may be older scopes but I'd take older German / Austrian optics, all with life-time warranty anytime before Chinese / Phillipine optics even with a life-time warranty.  As for new versus old coatings, I've sent back Kahles scopes before for servicing & responded in the affirmitive when they called me & asked if I wanted the coatings redone / updated, even though I think they probably just replaced the lenses.
 
Thanks to everyone who freely gave me advice.  I appreciate it.  I'm not sure if I can reciprocate as most of my scopes are all probably old-fashioned to you fellows.  Same for my binoculars.  I only own 2, both of which are Steiner, a 7x50 Commander & a 8x30 military/marine.
 
Take care all,
 
Jim
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/09/2011 at 19:55
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You can't buy Kahles, even the zf84's around here for $1000 for (5) of them.  I hope that they aren't "Kayres" instead.  Whew!  Not here long, managed to offend almost all, must be one of those "City Canadians" that drive through here at 85 MPH all day, everyday and piss off almost all of we Colonials.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/09/2011 at 20:58
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Oldtrader3:
 
I didn't say, or get 5 Kahles zf84's for $1,000.00 (Cdn); that would be nice, but I've already decided to sell that one, as I can't deal with the military style changes, as once I set it, I don't have the need to change it for wind, distance, etc., nor do I want it changing by getting snagged in the bush.
 
What I got for my $1,000.00 Canadian dollars was:
1 Kahles zf84 6x42 (#105 Reticle) A REAL one, not one of those BS Made for Israel supposed Kahles,
1 Kahles Helia Super 15/S2 in 1.1-4.5x20 (#4 reticle), now traded for a Kahles Helai S 2.2-9x42
1 Kahles Helia Super 15/S2 in 1.1-4.5x20 (#4 reticle), now traded for a Swarovski Habicht 6x42
1 Kahles Helia Super 15/S2 in 1.1-4.5x20 (#16 reticle), now mounted on a Geo. Gibbs .360 Rimless N.E.
1 IOR 4x32 (etched #7A reticle), now mounted on one of my "Ghost & The Darkness" rifles. 
 
So as far as my scope-sighted rifles go, here is the current line-up:
 

Alex. Martin High Velocity Rook Rifle .220 Long Rifle, Zeiss DIATAL-C 4x32, ATI/Leupold QRW Low rings

 

George Gibbs Ltd. M96 Highland Stalker .256 Gibbs Magnum Rimless, Swarovski Habicht Nova 6x42, EAW QD rings

 

Holland & Holland Limited, #4 Lightweight Deluxe with QD barrels in .275 Rimless, .300 Rimless, .330 Rimless, .350 Rimless, Kahles HELIA S 1.1-4.5x20 & Kahles HELIA S 2.2-9x42, Leupold/EAW x 2 rings

 

Winchester Repeating Arms, 94, Model 1894 Pre-'64 Eastern Woods Carbine .30 W.C.F., Bushnell Banner 2.5x20, Weaver Side-Mount Base #3D / Weaver Side-Mount Rings

 

Sturm-Ruger & Co., Inc., #1A, Light Sporter .300 Rimless Nitro Express 2 ½”, Bausch & Lomb Balvar 1.5-6x32 in Ruger 1” double set-back rings

 

Sturm-Ruger & Co., Inc., #1A, Light Sporter .303 Flanged Nitro Express 2 ¼”, Bausch & Lomb Balvar 1.5-6x20 in Ruger 1” double set-back rings

 

C.W. ANDREWS, High Velocity Sporting Rifle, 1st Pattern, .303 Flanged Nitro Express 2 ¼”, Bushnell Scope Chief IV 1.5-4.5x20, Weaver Side-Mount #2 / Weaver Lo Side-Mount Rings

 

B.S.A. Co., High Velocity Sporting Rifle, 2nd Pattern, .303 Flanged Nitro Express 2 ¼”, Bausch & Lomb Balvar 1.5-6x32 & Swarovski Habicht Nova 4x32, Weaver Side-Mount #2 / Weaver Lo Side-Mount Rings

 

B.S.A. Co., High Velocity Sporting Rifle, 3rd Pattern, .303 Flanged Nitro Express 2 ¼”, IOR 4x32, ATI / Leupold QRW Low

 

B.S.A. Co., High Velocity Sporting Rifle, 3rd Pattern, .303 Flanged Nitro Express 2 ¼”, Swarovski Habicht Nova A 4x32, ATI / Leupold QRW Low

 

B.S.A. Co., High Velocity Sporting Rifle, 3rd Pattern, .303 Flanged Nitro Express 2 ¼”, Swarovski Habicht Nova A 3-9X36, ATI / Leupold QRW Low

 

B.S.A. Co., High Velocity Sporting Rifle, 3rd Pattern, .303 Flanged Nitro Express 2 ¼”, Kahles HELIA S 2.2-9x42, ATI / Leupold QRW Low 30mm

 

B.S.A. Co., High Velocity Sporting Rifle, 3rd Pattern, .303 Flanged Nitro Express 2 ¼”, Zeiss DIAVARI-C 3-9x36, ATI / Leupold QRW Low

 

Marlin Firearms Co., 1894C, .350 Remington Flanged Rook Magnum / .380 Smith & Wesson Special, Weaver K 2.5x20, NcStar / Weaver 1" Low

 

James MacNaughton & Sons, Model 1906 African Light Big Game Rifle, .360 Rimless Nitro Express 2 ¼”, Kahles Helia Super 1.5-4.5x20 in EAW QD rings

 

Daniel Fraser, Model 46, .360 Rimless Nitro Express 2 ¼”, Kahles Helia Super 2.5 x 20 in EAW QD rings

 

George Gibbs Ltd., Model 146, .360 Rimless Nitro Express 2 ¼” Kahles Helia Super 1.5-4.5x

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/09/2011 at 21:19
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Oldtrader3:
 
"managed to offend almost all, must be one of those "City Canadians" that drive through here at 85 MPH all day, everyday and piss off almost all of we Colonials.
 
Sorry, I didn't realize that in the few posts I have made on here I have managed to offend almost everyone.  If I have somehow, please accept my humble apologies.
 
BTW, I am NOT one of those "City Canadians"; in fact I live most of the year in the bush SW of Red Lake, ON., NW of Kenora, ON, ~100 miles E of Winnipeg, MB, & ~400 miles NNE of Minneapolis, MN.
 
As well, I don't think any of my diesel Toyota LandCruisers could even do 85 mph; they start to express their displeasure at anything over 110 kph (~65 mph), mainly because of the 5.29 gears, but I suppose also because of their "brick-like" streamlined silhouettes & the amount of air underneath their chassis because of the 38" Michelin XL military tires they ride on.
 
Lastly, I didn't think you yanks liked to be considered as "Colonials" since that unfortunate misunderstanding with George III a little over 2 centuries ago! ;-)
 
Regards, 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/09/2011 at 21:34
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HidingWhy would you not go to the newer Kahles as they have what you are looking for and it seems it fits well in your current collection.

Other than that I might suggest keeping in the pattern of older glass.

I prefer some older scopes to newer scopes as the coatings are not seemingly as bright but the colors are truer or can keep there neutral or natural color without the "false" brightness.

Some of the Newer glass has better finishing on the lenses shape with less Chromatic Aberration or less Color Fringing and blurring/ distortion but I find that some of these add a degree of color enhancement that is not as natural where certain colors are off from the un-scoped eye.



I have to state this as it is very hard for us to swallow.

We pay $1,000.00 USD OR $1k for 1 of the scopes you mentioned, in order to get 5 even just the Kahles 1-4's we would be paying just guest-i-mating over $4k USD for what you got for your $1k CAD.

You have a very nice collection.

I would not Hiding (forgive me as I do own a Diamondback and a Viper)Hiding pollute your collection with anything lesser than Kahles or Swarovski...

Karl Kaps, Comes to mind.






 


Edited by 338LAPUASLAP - October/09/2011 at 21:35
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/09/2011 at 22:26
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No problem, I myself own some few Kahles scopes, older versions of the newer models than those that you listed.  Kahles makes fine optics and the only issue with them in this country is availability and no in-country service center.  I understand that situation is being resolved.
 
In addition to my Zeiss, Kahles and Swarovski German/Austrian scopes, I own several other scopes including the Conquest, Minox ZA5, (3) Leupolds and a Vortex.  I try to match the optics cost to be somewhat in line with the firearm that it is mounted on.
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