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Vortex, Bush 4200, Monarch--scope for 30-06

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/12/2010 at 13:08
Bboy623 View Drop Down
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Hey guys---wanted to throw another thread out there and get a few more opinions. I need a scope for my 30-06 Mossberg 4X4 bolt. I thought I had narrowed it down to a 3-9x40 Bushnell 4200 as my Mossberg has a laminate stock and this would be my foul weather gun (for whitetail). I've been reading and everyone seems to love/rave the Vortex Vipers. I will have to admit I think the $240 price for the Vortex Viper 4-12x40 is an awesome deal; and it has the extra magnification I personally would like to have. So optically, how does the Viper compare to the 4200 or even a Monarch? I have a Conquest on my primary gun; how does it even stack up to it? I need EXCELLENT low light performance.---Bboy623
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/12/2010 at 13:12
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The 4200s and Vipers are pretty close in glass.  The 4200 does have the rainguard but the Viper can be used with see through covers in foul weather.  The one thing that pushes the Viper ahead is the no questions asked, bend over backwards for our cusomters warranty they offer. **** edit
 
 
The Nikon is a great scope as well and overlooked a bit too.  I'd give either the Viper or Monarch a serious look.  With the recent transgressions that are going on with Bushnells customers service though I can't recommend them.


Edited by SVT_Tactical - August/12/2010 at 13:50
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/12/2010 at 13:12
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http://swfa.com/Bushnell-25-10x50-Elite-4200-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P6909.aspx

If money wasn't a problem, I'd like to have the above link. I think I'd really like the illuminated dot, especially in low light. I was leaning toward the 3-9 4200 b/c of $$$ and it seemed the best bank for you buck---Bboy623
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/12/2010 at 13:12
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nice one SVT!! LOL---Bboy623
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/12/2010 at 13:45
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Sent you a PM regarding a scope you might be interested in.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/12/2010 at 15:39
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I had the 3-12 Monarch. Gave it to a family member who needed a new scope. I just got the 4-12 viper to replace it. There are things I like about both and they are pretty equal IMO but the viper seems to have smoother controls for power and paralax and the glass seems to make things "pop" a bit more while the Nikon has a bit "softer" image if that makes sense. The viper does however have a bit of a tunneling effect that the monarch does not have. Because the viper is so long you can mount it on any action with room to spare. Based on the current price and Vortex's reputation for service I would probably go with the Vortex again over either nikon or bushnell. For your situation I would look at the 3.5-10x50 though..

BTW the viper only advertises 3.5 in of eye relief but it sure seems better than that on mine. It seems closer to the 4 inches of the Nikon. 


Edited by biggreen747 - August/12/2010 at 15:49
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/12/2010 at 16:11
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Originally posted by Bboy623 Bboy623 wrote:

Hey guys---wanted to throw another thread out there and get a few more opinions. I need a scope for my 30-06 Mossberg 4X4 bolt. I thought I had narrowed it down to a 3-9x40 Bushnell 4200 as my Mossberg has a laminate stock and this would be my foul weather gun (for whitetail). I've been reading and everyone seems to love/rave the Vortex Vipers. I will have to admit I think the $240 price for the Vortex Viper 4-12x40 is an awesome deal; and it has the extra magnification I personally would like to have. So optically, how does the Viper compare to the 4200 or even a Monarch? I have a Conquest on my primary gun; how does it even stack up to it? I need EXCELLENT low light performance.---Bboy623

the viper is right in there with the 4200 and the monarch, i have all 3. the conquest is a bit better but also costs more.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/12/2010 at 17:27
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+1 with pyro.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/13/2010 at 10:42
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First dilemma is $$$. Second dilemma is which company to choose from. Like you said SVT, Bush has some CS issues. If I chose a Bush and had problems with it....where would I be on getting my scope fixed/replaced( And I'm one that would want a replacement!).
 
Vortex has excellent CS from everyone on the board here and I can tell that Scott from Vortex would bend over backwards to fix any problem that I may have. My only concerns with them is #1--sight unseen-----wish I could hold one and look through it before I purchase #2--the tunnel effect that everyone says Vipers have---would I even notice?....would it bother me? I don't know unless I hold one.
 
I love my Nikon Omega Muzzleloading scope on my TC Triumph. I know Nikon makes great products. It does concern me however that there are so MANY refurbs on the List compare to the other manufactuers. And Nikons CS is hit or miss as well form what I know. And then there's the price----why would I spend the $$$ for a Monarch when I could get a Conquest and have probably better glass---unless I just had to have whatever magnification/features the Monarch had.
 
I don't want to buy a Mustang GT if I can purchase a Corvette for the same money, if you understand.
 
I'm gonna try to locate a Vortex dealer nearby and make up my mind. I also don't want to regret NOT getting the Bush b/c of the Rainguard.....like I said..this scope is going on my foul weather gun 30-06-----Bboy623
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/13/2010 at 10:46
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I think, and don't quote me on this, that SWFA will let you return stuff as long as its not been mounted.  yes you would loose some on shipping but if you kept it you wouldn't.  Check with them and see.  You could always order all three from them and just mount the one you find you like the best and send the others back.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/13/2010 at 11:18
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I think that is the case with most retailers that  as long as the optic wasnt mounted it can be returned.

as for Bushnell i still feel my senerio is unique with them. I don't think you would have a problem if you bought a 4200 and had a problem. since they do and will probably still make a replacement.

I would recommend looking over there returns policy . as for all others.  bush you send it in and include a 10 check for return shipping. if it needs repairs they contact you with the cost.  and you have a few days to respond. since mine was new and unrepairable they sent a replacement threw warranty. older out of warranty scopes whats where it print gets pretty small.

As for the refurbs. from Nikon there is many of all makes on there but i think in swfa's case i am guessing all trade ins are resold as refurb. the scope i just sent in on trade was like new  20 rounds down the tube with it and it only made  the one trip to the range when i decided i to not stay with the BDC.

I have had great luck with Nikon I have a 3x9 Prostaff BDC ,4.5-14 Coyote special,4.5-14 buckmaster ,4-16 monarch , and a prostaff LRF. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/13/2010 at 11:40
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i havent noticed any tunnel vision with my 2x7 viper at all.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/13/2010 at 14:43
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My 2x7 Viper showed up today, and I don't notice any tunnel vision in mine.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/13/2010 at 17:36
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i think i seen it was on the higher power scopes. well see SWFA shipped my 6.5 viper today.. awesome i need to get a mount here quick
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/13/2010 at 17:43
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Slight tunnel effect on Viper scopes is limited to the 4-12x40 model.  Other Viper models are better in that regard.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/13/2010 at 21:22
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But Koshkin.....I WANT the 4-12x40!!! LOL----Bboy623
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/13/2010 at 21:47
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Originally posted by Bboy623 Bboy623 wrote:

But Koshkin.....I WANT the 4-12x40!!! LOL----Bboy623

Then buy it.  It is a heck of a nice scope, and when I did a review on it I went ahead and bought the scope afterwards, tunnel effect and all.  The effect is not especially severe anyway.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/13/2010 at 22:04
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Koshkin---I saw a review you did on a 3-9X40 Vortex Viper back in 2007 and you stated in the comparison that the Sightron SII & Bush 4200 had better glass. Is this still true for the 4-12X40? Or has Vortex upgraded their quality? Thanks---Bbboy623

Edited by Bboy623 - August/13/2010 at 22:05
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/13/2010 at 22:44
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BigGreen---why do you recommend the 3.5-10X50 over the 4-12X40??? I was kinda wanting the extra magnification as well as i like the Side focus. From the extensive research I've done the 50mm objective does little for low light applications; as it mainly gives you a wider field of view. Just curious---Bboy623
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/13/2010 at 23:17
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That objective size will absolutely affect low-light performance, as the objective diameter directly affects exit pupil.  The 50 mm will give a full 1 mm more exit pupil at 10 power than a 40mm.

BTW guys, my 2-7X32 Viper did have a small amount of tunnel vision.  Not a real problem.  It is a fine little scope.  A keeper.




Edited by Bitterroot Bulls - August/13/2010 at 23:19
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/13/2010 at 23:38
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Originally posted by Bboy623 Bboy623 wrote:

BigGreen---why do you recommend the 3.5-10X50 over the 4-12X40??? I was kinda wanting the extra magnification as well as i like the Side focus. From the extensive research I've done the 50mm objective does little for low light applications; as it mainly gives you a wider field of view. Just curious---Bboy623

Quite the opposite, actually.  Objective lens size does not have any direct effect on Field of View whatsoever.  It does have an indirect negative effect on field of view: it is harder to build scopes with large objective lenses and wide fields of view.

On contrary, large objective lenses allow you to use higherer magnification in low light and certainly help with low light performance.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/13/2010 at 23:40
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Originally posted by Bboy623 Bboy623 wrote:

Koshkin---I saw a review you did on a 3-9X40 Vortex Viper back in 2007 and you stated in the comparison that the Sightron SII & Bush 4200 had better glass. Is this still true for the 4-12X40? Or has Vortex upgraded their quality? Thanks---Bbboy623

It's been a long time, but if memory serves me right, I said that S2 was cheaper than Viper, but optical performance was similar.  They are now similar in terms of price and if I had to make a decision, I would say that the Viper is a touch better.  Perhaps, that Viper I looked at was a little worse than typical.  However, I have seen a bunch of Viper scopes since then.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/14/2010 at 09:25
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Let me clarify----I was saying the overall, the larger objective is null for low light performance COMPARED to a 30mm tube. A 30mm scope with a 40 objective will have a lot better low light performance vs a 1 inch with a 50mm. Yes, I agree that the 50mm will perform better at higher magnifications in low light but I still feel the 30mm tube is the better performer.--Bboy623


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/14/2010 at 09:54
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Originally posted by Bboy623 Bboy623 wrote:

Let me clarify----I was saying the overall, the larger objective is null for low light performance COMPARED to a 30mm tube. A 30mm scope with a 40 objective will have a lot better low light performance vs a 1 inch with a 50mm. Yes, I agree that the 50mm will perform better at higher magnifications in low light but I still feel the 30mm tube is the better performer.--Bboy623



All things being equal, glass quality, coatings, internal components, there should be no discernable difference between a 40mm objective on a 30mm tube vs a 1 inch tube. The advantage of the 30mm tube is it's strength and adjustment range. As was stated previously by someone else here the 50mm objective will give you a 5mm exit pupil at 10x while a 40mm will only give you 4mm, or conversley you would need to limit yourself to 8x with a 40mm objective to have the same 5mm exit pupil. You specifically stated that you needed good low light performance which led me to recomend the 3.5-10x50 as you will have a larger exit pupil at all power settings. If you feel (like I do) that most of your shots in low light conditions will be at shorter ranges where the full magnification of the scope may not be a factor then by all means go for the 4-12x40.

As for the tunneling or tunnel vision effect. I have the 4-12x40 so all of my comments regarding tunneling are based upon my experiences with that model. As to the other models I don't believe I was incenuating in any way that they have that issue, if I was my appoligies to all who own those models. It is certainly not so severe as to be an impediment it is just noticeable when compared along side other similar scopes. As a reference I was comparing it to a 3-12x42 Nikon Monarch, a 4-16x42 Nikon Monarch, and a 2-12x40 Burris Six X (which IMO also exhibits a bit of tunneling).

I hope this clears up any confusion regarding my earlier posts.

Eric


Edited by biggreen747 - August/14/2010 at 10:08
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/14/2010 at 10:33
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Well, I just pulled the trigger (pun intended) on the Vortex Viper 4-12x40!!!! I think this will make a nice scope for my 30-06. I ordered Medium height DNZ deadnut mount. Will the medium height be enough or do I need the high? This is my first scoped bolt rifle. Thanks for all the replies guys---Bboy623
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