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Vintage WWI Zeiss Optic w/ Nazi Eagle

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Riverman View Drop Down
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    Posted: March/03/2020 at 11:43
I am new here and hoping members will be able to offer some insight into a Vintage Zeiss Optic that I recently procured.  I am inserting a link for pictures but it is a Ziess Optic marked with D.F. 10x50 and clearly stamped with the Nazi War Eagle symbol.
The optic is either a monocular or a spotting scope but in my research it appears that Ziess only made the D.F. in a binocular format - D.F. meaning doppelfernrohr. 
Any history on this optic would be greatly appreciated!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/03/2020 at 11:46
If it is Nazi, it isn't WW1.

I will be interested in seeing what others know of it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DPI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/03/2020 at 13:16
What it looks as if you have there is one half of a pair.

These were official Dienstglas up until the forties, so that would explain the somewhat old fashioned look and the eagle markings. They have an 'Abbe-Konig' prism system.

Cast zinc with leather covering with a fitted rainguard of tin, covered with leather. Dr Hans Seeger mentions them in his book 'Fernglaser und Fernrohre' on page 108. Fig 61

The case shown looks to be what might be called 'After market'

There is a link in flicker that might show this better.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/binocwpg/14523895146



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riverman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/03/2020 at 13:38
In all my research I would almost agree with you - however if you take a look at the full set of binos, you will notice that where the pair connects in the binos doesn't exist on my singular optic.  It would require there to either be an additional metal piece for the the connection or an indent in the optic where the metal bands sit for connection - and mine has neither.  There is no "lip" for the connection piece to sit - especially towards the smaller end.  However there is a small indent on the larger end of the optic that looks like it was made for something additional.
Also - the inscription on the optic is very different from all of the ones that I can find online.  Most of the binoculars are all marked "Carl Zeiss Jena" on one side and DF 10x50 on the other - usually with a serial number.
This one is unique in that it says Zeiss and DF 10x50 all on the one eye piece, and no serial number exists.  It could be that it's an earlier version I suppose that they marked differently?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DPI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/03/2020 at 13:58
Hmm, Seems a bit unique. maybe a prototype of some type. but why, would be the question.

I would suggest you contact the Zeiss Archives, to see if they can help. I have found them quite happy to help, if they can.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riverman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/03/2020 at 14:17
I've sent an email and photos off to Zeiss Archives.  Fingers crossed they can provide some information.  Thank you!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/03/2020 at 16:05
Great info here, please keep us informed.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DPI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/03/2020 at 23:47
Expect to wait a couple of weeks to get a reply from Zeiss.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riverman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/19/2020 at 15:06
HI All
We got a response - but not from Zeiss - they sent the information along to Hans Seeger himself to look at.  I have copied and pasted his response below.

Dear Mrs. White,

Dr. Wimmer, head of the Zeiss Archive, and Frau Schmied asked me to comment your questions on a Zeiss monocular D.F. 10 x 50 in Abbe-König design. As a book author on the history of Zeiss binoculars and Military Binoculars I have an own data base and some knowledge about older Zeiss binoculars. Details of my books you find in the internet. Additionally, I will send you a leaflet of my books.

Your bino belongs to a particular Zeiss model series in which the first Zeiss 7 x 50 was built. The first one of these, the 7 x 50 Abbe-König, is the precursor of the "usual" and well known Zeiss 7 x 50 in Porro I design and was in production for only 10 - 15 years. The Porro I 7 x 50, however, was one of the most successful binos in the Zeiss history (the civil Porro I-versions had the names Binoctar and Binoctem). The civilian Abbe-König versions are rarer than the military ones and had also a short "life" beginning around 1911/12 and ending in the 1920ies, see pages 623 f in my Vol. 1 of Zeiss Binoculars. Three civilian versions were built: The Noctar 7 x 50, the Dekar 10 x 50 and (later) a Dodekar 12 x 50. All of these had military "brothers" and the names were D.F. (Doppelfernrohr) 7 x (or D.F. 7 x 50) etc. The fact that none of the civilian versions was built with center focus leads to the conclusion that from the start on the military usage was the main purpose for these Abbe-König binos. More details you will find on the pages 623 - 644 in the cited book.

Monocular versions of the 7 x Abbe-König are known and I attach a picture of 2 specimens, also a later 7 x mono version mounted on a director. Strangely enough, one of the early depicted 7 x monos is not identical with half a Noctar or D.F. 7 x 50 Abbe-König. My theory is that in the history of this model the monocular was the first version and the binocular the later one. This means that during the "start" of this model, Zeiss did not follow the usual scheme to use bodies of binoculars which had during the production process an accident for building monoculars. (Maybe that a similar development took place in the history of the 18 x 50, see Vol. II, page 129.)

In my opinion not only monocular Abbe-König 7 x 50 were built. I think that also 10 x 50 and, possibly, 12 x 50 monos were available at the production time of these models, i. e. from circa 1911 up to the mid 1920ies.

I am convinced of the fact that your mono 10 x 50 is a true monocular which had survived from WW I to the 1930ies in a military depot or arsenal. In the early time of the 3rd Reich an urgent need for military items existed and several binos are known which were made in WW I or the 1920ies and had received new inscriptions with or without the swastika later. For examples see in Vol. I of my Zeiss Bino History Abb. 1767 and 1768. Also in Vol. II see pages 732 and 836. In my eyes these "modified" binos are no fakes but instead true military binos which were after-used officially. For this, old markings or designations were removed (imperial crown etc.) and in the Zeiss factory or in military workshops the new inscriptions were officially applied.

Summary: Your 10 x 50 bino is a genuine WW I Zeiss product which received in the time 1933 - 1936 a new official military inscription more or less in accordance with the Zeiss products at that time.

I hope that the above information gives you answers to your questions. In my books you will find more details, mainly on military binoculars. Please contact me if you have special questions concerning Zeiss binoculars; I will try my best to find an answer. The attached pics are for your own information or use only. I have no copyright for these.

With my best regards to you and your colleagues

yours Hans Seeger      
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DPI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/19/2020 at 15:43
Wow, you got put in touch with the great man himself.

Well that is some very interesting information.

I have one of his books 'Militarische Fernglaser und Fernrohre in Heer, Luftwaffe und Marine'

Its pretty much impossible to find any of the others. This one cost me 109 euros.

Well done
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riverman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/20/2020 at 10:15
Just FYI for anyone who is interested - we will be putting this up for sale on Gunbroker this afternoon.  Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DPI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/20/2020 at 10:41
Linky thingy when you do?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riverman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/20/2020 at 13:51
Below is the link to the Gunbroker Auction  Thanks All!

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/862346698
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DPI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/20/2020 at 14:08
Would you ship to the UK?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riverman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/20/2020 at 14:16
I don't believe there are any export restrictions on Binoculars/monoculars but I will have to double check.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DPI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2020 at 03:30
Ok, let me know
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