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Very biased

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/10/2004 at 23:05
KYHunter View Drop Down
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I have been lurking around this forum and have noticed some major biases amoung you guys...  Let me see what you think of my observations...

 

1) Why would anyone recommend the cheaper Leupolds,  the VX-1 and Rifleman do not have any multicoated lenses and have "friction" adjustments...  This seems really chincey to me!

 

2) Why do you guys hate the Simmons Aetec.  To me it seems like feature-for-feature the best scope out there for the money.  Good eye relief, fully-multicoated lenses, etc.

 

3) I don't really understnd why the Nikon Monarch scopes don't get decent grades from you guys.  I recently picked one up because I got it super cheap and compared it to my VX-II, I would say the Monarch is noticably brighter.

 

4)  I really agree with you guys about the Burris Fulfield II, but really hate the "ballistic drop" junk, why can't they just have that deal with a "normal" recticle????

 

5)  I also have been really impressed by the Sightron scopes (when will SWFA carry them?)  A S-II will probably be my next scope purchase...

 

Anyway, just some observations...

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2004 at 08:16
redneckbmxer24 View Drop Down
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1. any leupold is a good scope, and if theres anything wrong with it, leupy will replace it, and they have the highest resale value.

 

2. i dont like cheap junky scope.

 

3. i dont like nikon.

 

4. the burris FF2 is available with the standard plex reticle.

 

5. IDK.

 

just my warped opinion.

 

cory

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2004 at 09:10
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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Not being part of the SWFA team, but a general observer for several months now, I have to say the SWFA team does an outstanding job. Consider someone asking you the same question 300 times? Especially when the question involves comparing apples and oranges, and the inquistor wants to now the answer to a technical question, but doesn't want the reasoning behind it.

If you choose a Sightron, good, you have put your money up front, personally most of the ones I have looked through have panorama bend. Even the Leo Rifleman doesn't do that. I have an Aetec and it is a very good scope for the money. After several 1000 rds. on an AR it has held up well. However it has very bad panorama bend at the highest power, which is why it is on a special (somewhat) plinker.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2004 at 09:31
KYHunter View Drop Down
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I agree SWFA does a great job... I buy most of my scopes through them.. My statements weren't meant towards them...

 

It drives me nuts that you guys think the rifleman and VX-I's are good scopes, other than the Leupold name what do they offer???  For 200 bucks at that???  Doesn't Sightron make Leupold's glass?  What about a Weaver grand slam? Just too many options to suggest buying the cheap Leupolds.

 

Where can you get the deal (spotting scope/200 dollars) with the FF2 with regular plex???  I haven't seen it.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/11/2004 at 10:07
redneckbmxer24 View Drop Down
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leuypolds are not cheap, and the VXI is a very very nice scope, and theres nothing wrong with it, and i beleave the rifleman is basically last years VXI. and the FF2 isnt available in the peckage with the plex reticle.

 

cory

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/13/2004 at 11:50
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The VX I is a relative piece of crap in my opinion.  Burris FFII blows it away in all areas, with just as good of warranty.  Redneck is right about one thing....Leupolds are not "cheap"......they are an overpriced poor bang for the buck no matter which model you're looking at.  There are better choices in every price range than Leupold.   Sorry redneck, no offense, pretty much just the facts.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/13/2004 at 13:04
gozarian View Drop Down
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I fully agree with Grubbs about the Leupolds.  The Simmons might have "okay" lenses but it's how they're put together or better yet, "how they will or will not hold together" that's the question.  There was a post here last week I think, regarding Simmons and how poorly they were constructed and all of the failures folks were having with them.

Another good scope that isn't really mentioned here are the Weaver Grand Slams. 

If you don't mind 30 mm scopes, probably the biggest bang for the buck is the Tasco Titan in 3-9 or 3-12, they are tough as nails and have fairly bright optics. 

I looked through some Nikons once and thought they were just average, Leupold VXIII, Bushnell 4200, Weaver Grand Slam and Burris Signature were all brighter and clearer (Leupold just barely).

Can't reply about the Sightron scopes because I've never looked through one.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/13/2004 at 13:27
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What chu talkin' bout Willis?  We have a lot of members for a new community that was just launch this past spring and you can not have over 1,000 members and them all be biased....well I guess you can, but it would not be biased if that many people agreed...it would be fact.

 

1) It wasn't too long ago when someone posted that we were all anti-Leupold on OPTICSTALK.  Just goes to show you how different people can look at the same thing and see it differently.

Topic: Anti-Leupold Bias

 

2) The Aetec gets recommended a lot and we even call it "The best scope under $150."

Topic: Scopes for $200 and under.

 

Quote from Dale "I've had high dollar scopes that failed this test (almost at least once in every brand)  and played around with the factory warranty stuff. The disturbing part is that I've had supposedly cheap scopes that have passed amazingly(Simmons Aetec," -  Topic: Long-ass Bushnell tubes

 

Quote from Chris "The Aetec 2.8-10x44 is an excellent choice.  The AETEC has a very good eye relief and is extremely easy to look thru." - Topic: Scope for 221 Fireball

 

Quote from Brady "The aetec has better lens coatings. It has the Aspherical lens system which is the best Simmons has to offer. If the power difference isn't a big deal for you go with the Aetec no doubt."  - Topic: Illuminated reticles

 

Quote from mr.mosseyoak "what about a simmons aetec cheaply priced but very well made excellenct scope" - Topic: 22 scope recommendation

 

Quote from abmx "I doubted the Simmons line of scopes untill 3 years ago when my son took my .375 to Alaska and had an accident and dropped the rifle. The old Loopy was totaled and the only scope he could fing quickly was a Simmons Aetec. The scope was installed and sighted in, carried in an float plane, quad wheeler, 4 wheel drive and a commerical airplane. When he came home I took the rifle to the range and shot about 25 rounds and the Aetec was still zeroed and did not break. To date the scope has about 75 to 80 rounds of full house .375 loads and has held together.

 

Since we had such good luck with the Aetec we have purchased four 44 Mag scopes and 2 more Aetec scopes.

To date there has not been a problem with any of them." - Topic: Simmons AETEC vs 44 Mag

 

Quote from redneckbmxer24 - "the aetec is a great scope for the money." Topic: Simmons AETEC vs 44 Mag

 

There are many more examples but I think you get my point.

 

3) The Nikon Monarch gets nothing but good grades around here and I don't think anyone would disagree with you about it being better than a VX-II.  I did a search for "Monarch" and it yielded 6 pages of results, I could pull quotes like I did on the Aetec but it would be easier for anyone that wants to read a lot to do a search with Monarch as the key word and search in Message Body.

 

4) The Ballistic Plex is the only deal Burris has offered us with the free spotter, I assume because they want to promote their new reticle.

 

5) We will be looking at them next year, possibly at S.H.O.T.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/13/2004 at 14:16
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I have something interesting to add. Many folks who come and give an opinion, speculation or observation on an optical device come from many different backgrounds. For example some of the people don't do any more than fire from a bench and perhaps fair weather hunt during the hunting season. On the other end some of the people go to Africa, Alaska, and beat the hell out of their gear at all times of the day, year and weather.

 

I have been a hunter, police officer and in the military and know for a fact that some of the scopes you are discussing would not cut at all for certain applications and for other application would be just perfect. I would also like to add I just recently went through a box of older thrown aside Weavers, Redfields, etc.. scopes from the 1960-1980's and for the most part many of the most in-expensive scopes today are superior in comparison.

 

Though I do have to say from my experience that scopes that come under the $300 to $400 price mark seem to be questionable in their quality and at least with me there longivity. But most of the time that does not mean they won't do what they are suppose to do with putting a bullet in the right place. So please don't get mad at the perceived "smack"  ..... they..we.. whatever.. aren't trying to make you upset.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/13/2004 at 15:46
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I am one who is biased against Simmons. I would take just about anything over a Simmons.

 

I have a 44Mag.  My father has a Whitetail Classic. They both are crap as far as holding zero. I am hard pressed to believe that another Simmons in the same price bracket is any better.



Edited by Boomholzer
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/13/2004 at 16:55
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I am one of the people here who is not particularly fond of Leupold.  I think their scopes are quite good but overpriced. 

 

My point is that the same optical performance can be purchased for less money or more optical performance can be purchased for the same money.  As far as toughness goes, I believe that most modern scopes of reputable brands are sufficiently tough and durable for most people here.

 

Leupold does have a superb warranty.  Well, I honestly think that I should never have to use that warranty.  If I do need to use it once every ten years, I do not particularly care if it comes back in 1 week or 3 months.  Besides, other reputable companies also have good warranties. 

 

Among american shooters Leupold has a long history and many people have not yet come to grips that Leupold is not the most advanced thing out there.  There are a lot of people out there who have an extreme bias toward Leupold.  As a result among the more optics savvy crowd you'll see some backlash in the form of an anti-Leupold bias. For/against Leupold discussions are frequently not especially reasonable as there are too many emotions involved: "my great-granddaddy used nothing but Leupold and refused to let go of it on his deathbed" vs "every Leupold I've seen had the light transmission of a manhole cover and the resolution akin to piece of salami held against sunlight".  If you like Leupolds, IMO, there is nothing wrong with them other than the price.

 

As far as Simmons/Tasco/BSA/etc go.  From what I gather quality can really be hit and miss, hence many people stay away from them.  I've owned enough cheap scopes to be very cautious of them (although I have had good luck with Swift products so far).

 

Ilya

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/13/2004 at 17:38
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Aren't Leupolds now constructed with three piece tubes???  I think I heard that somewhere.  Isn't this the way most of the inexispensive scopes are made.  Swarovski, Kahles, Burris, Zeiss, etc. are all one piece.  Wouldn't that affect the durability of the scope... Just trying to add fuel to the fire...

 

All Kidding aside I really like my new Leupold VX-II... It is a fine scope.  It would not be worth $300, but I didn't pay nearly that much.  I would not say it compares favorably to the Monarchs, Signature series, or Bushnell 4200.  But it is a nice scope.

 

My point was that the VX-1 and Rifleman are nothing but featureless scopes.  How can Leupold market a scope without multicoatings and click adjusments.  What do these scopes have to offer at $200???  Any other scope by any other manufacturer offers a lot more for that price!  If Leupold makes a 100 dollar scope, they should sell it for 100 dollars, not twice that much!

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/13/2004 at 18:16
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"What about a Weaver grand slam? Just too many options to suggest buying the cheap Leupolds."

 

"Another good scope that isn't really mentioned here are the Weaver Grand Slams."

 

I think there are just so many threads and replies that it is impossible to see them all. 

There is an overwhelming amount of post recommending and praising the Grand Slam, here's a very small sample of what gets said.

 

Posted by Chris "

"Is it comparable to Bushnell 3200 or Burris FF2? "

Nope, its better."Topic: Weaver Grand Slam

 

Posted by Brady "The Weaver Grand Slam is the best $250.00 scope known to mankind!!" - Topic: Need scope recommendation

 

Posted by Shamus - "For high build quality, really good optics, and brightness in your price range I'd go with the Weaver Grand Slam 3.5-10x50" "Bang for the buck has to be the Grand Slam - they are notoriously bright." - Topic: Need reasonable price deer scope

 

Posted by Hawkeye "Last summer I purchased a Weaver Grand Slam 3x10x40 from SWFA for my Rem ADL 30.06 and boy has it opened my eyes to what a difference a good quality scope can make in low light hunting situations. The only problem is that I now can't stand looking through any of the scopes on any of my other guns." - Topic: Help with new scopes

 

Posted by DAVE44 "I personally thought the Weaver Grand Slam was just as clear as the Nikon" - Topic: Elite 4200 vs.Nikon Monarch

 

Posted by CWPINST "Two years ago one of my friends bought a Weaver GS 50mm (from SWFA).  He told me that he compared it to a 3.5x10x50mm Vari-X-III and thought that the Weaver transmitted more light at near dark.  I told him that I had some doubts about that, so he invited me to go hunting with him and sit in one of his "condominium" stands so we could compare his Weaver to one of my Vari-X-III 50mm's in a side by side comparison.  To make a long story short, we watched deer until dark.  One of these deer was a small basket rack buck.  I had to admit that I could see the deer clearer with the GS than my Leupold, in fact, I could count points with the Weaver when I could barely make out the deer with my scope.  Both scopes were clean and set on the same power, in fact we checked them at different powers too.  The result was that the Weaver beat my Leupy.  I had a healthy serving of humble pie that day. 

" - Topic: Weaver Grand Slam VS Vari X-III

 

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If you are trying to find comments or post about Weaver via the search function, use these search terms independently:  Weaver, Grand Slam, GS.  Many people abbreviate Weaver Grand Slam to just GS and a search for Weaver, Weaver Grand Slam or Grand Slam would not yield those comments.

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