New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - verticle reticle issue....
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Check GunBroker.com for SWFA's No Reserve and No Minimum bid firearm auctions.

verticle reticle issue....

 Post Reply Post Reply   Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/27/2010 at 21:28
pass-thru View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: February/20/2009
Location: Hubert NC
Status: Offline
Points: 109

I have mounted several scopes in the last few months very good results....and one issue that leaves me scratching my head.

I bought the wheeler scope mounting kit.  I heard the "level level level" kit is junk, and tend to agree, it will only fit the action of one of my rifles anyway.  The gouge I got was that having the top of the scope level with the chamber does not mean the reticle is aligned with the bore, which is what assures proper reticle alignment.  For that I was advised that this EXD instrument is the ticket:

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=6097/Product/EXD_ENGINEERING_VERTICAL_RETICLE_INSTRUMENT

My dilema is this. I have a model 70, and when I use the EXD to adjust the reticle, and then peer through the scope with my cheek weld, it appears the reticle is canted, which I can adjust my shifting my grip on the rifle.  It just looks a little off.  And the "level level level" indicates the chamber and scope are not level when the EXD indicates it's properly aligned. One of the two is way off.

Which do I trust....the level level level and my look through the scope, or the EXD?



Edited by pass-thru - September/27/2010 at 21:51
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/27/2010 at 21:44
308 Sav View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: July/18/2010
Location: Kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 362
Take a 4 ft tall target draw a plumb line on it. Towards the bottom of the target shoot your zero with your hold. Adjust your elevation up 30 to 40 moa and shoot again. If your tracking straight up the plumb line you are in alignment.

It's a tough one to tell if you cant your rifle.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/27/2010 at 22:24
RifleDude View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: October/13/2006
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 14310
Keep in mind when using the level, level, level method that reticles are frequently not aligned with the turrets, so your horizontal crosshair may not be parallel with the top of the elevation knob.  If that's the case -- and often it is -- leveling the elevation knob will not produce a level reticle. 

I have the EXD and like it very much.  It works because it relies on dual v-blocks on the barrel and scope objective bell to establish a vertical line so you can level the rifle.  Once you know the rifle is perfectly level, aligning the vertical crosshair with a plumb line HAS to result in a level reticle.


Edited by RifleDude - September/27/2010 at 22:26
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/27/2010 at 23:21
sakomato View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: February/28/2008
Location: Houston
Status: Offline
Points: 1085
I would trust the EXD but take a level and check it out
 
 
but while you are leveling your reticle and taking the cant out of your rifle then it helps to be able to replicate that in the field so a ScopLevel is called for
 
 
and it folds down when not in use
 
 
When I first started using them I discovered that my natural tendency was to hold the rifle slightly canted but have since taught myself to hold the rifle correctly.  Now the reticle seems perfect when setting up for a shot.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2010 at 06:00
Alan Robertson View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: October/31/2009
Location: Oklahoma
Status: Offline
Points: 1721
The phenomenon you mentioned can be due to the eyesight of the user. Even when scopes are very carefully mounted and known to be in perfect level/alignment, astigmatism can cause a vertical post to appear canted.
If the slant goes away when sighting from directly behind the rifle,with your eyes looking straight ahead, rather than from a shooting hold with your head  tilted (and looking somewhat to the side,) then you've answered the question...

Plumb bobs are a big help in reticle/bore alignment.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2010 at 20:40
pass-thru View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: February/20/2009
Location: Hubert NC
Status: Offline
Points: 109
 
 
This evening I set the rifle back up in the gun vice.  I used the exd and aligned the verticle reticle....it was perfect with the centered bubble in the level.  I then placed the level level on the vertical windage turret, and it too was centered...so the reticle is aligned with the turrets. Finally I placed the level in the chamber, and the bubble was bottomed out to the right. Therein lies the problem....but what does it mean....the chamber is not aligned with the bore?
 
The next time I'm at the range I will shoot up a verticle line.  However, I would like to know in the mean time if I am better off adjusting scope so that it's level with the bore.  It just seems slightly off when I look through the bore.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2010 at 22:10
sakomato View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: February/28/2008
Location: Houston
Status: Offline
Points: 1085
You could have the EXD level and the level-level-level also level on the turret and still have a reticle that is not horizontal/vertical.  You must aim the reticle at a horizontal or vertical object and rotate the scope till the reticle matches.  The only thing you have proved is that the turret is level when the rifle is uncanted.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2010 at 22:30
RifleDude View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: October/13/2006
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 14310
Yes, the EXD only makes sure the rifle and scope are level.  I then attach a plumb bob on a string and hang it from something like a door jamb and then rotate the scope to align the vertical crosshair with the string.

I've also seen reticles (wire reticles) where the horizontal and vertical crosshairs were not perfectly perpendicular to each other.  So, you could have the vertical crosshair perfectly vertical OR the horizontal crosshair perfectly horizontal, but not both at the same time.  It is more important to have the vertical crosshair vertical.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2010 at 22:53
pass-thru View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: February/20/2009
Location: Hubert NC
Status: Offline
Points: 109

When I say the EXD is level, I mean level and vertically aligned with the reticle and a straight vertical edge.  The issue with the rifle is that the chamber and the barrel somehow are not on the same level plane.  I screwed around with it and am going to leave well enough alone.  It shoots very well and that's the most important thing anyway.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/29/2010 at 00:06
Magnumdood View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: January/17/2009
Location: Illinois
Status: Offline
Points: 212

The EXD tells you if: a) the center of your scope is directly over the center of your bore, and, b) it can then level your reticle provided the horizontal bar is perpendicular to the vertical bar, and your scope is actually over your bore. 

 

A LOT of factory rifles have base holes that are drilled off-center, or the receiver has a lot of run out, or the barrel has been screwed on crooked....you can drive yourself nuts trying to true everything up and level your reticle...when, unless you're a very talented machinist with the proper machines and tools, you'll never be able to achieve your goal anyway.

 

Get it reasonably close (the EXD will do this) then go shoot.  Putting rounds downrange and participating in competitions will make you a better shooter loooong before trying to get the scope leveled to the Nth degree.

 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Similar Threads: "verticle reticle issue...."
Subject Author Forum Replies Last Post
Reticle to compensate for vision issue Mickey1010 Rifle Scopes 18
Savage 6mm BR Norma issues JLud Firearms 0
Scope consistency issue sdjnwest Tactical Scopes 21
Ranging Reticle on a cranking scope, Why? sakomato Rifle Scopes 8
Leupold VX-6 Firedot issue dw0229 Rifle Scopes 5
Vortex Razor HD II 3-18x50 - ISSUES?!?!? Boomer77 Rifle Scopes 10
Zen-Ray ED2 8x43 diopter issue wadeocu Binoculars 5
Dual reticle Bushnell ScopeChief help jighead45 Rifle Scopes 2
SWFA SS Reticle Subtensions Dan Tactical Scopes 17
1-4 scope/barrel issue chase102798 Tactical Scopes 5


This page was generated in 0.328 seconds.