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Value and Versatility

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2009 at 14:12
bhebe55 View Drop Down
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Hi
     I this is my first post though I have been trolling for a very long time soaking up all the wisdom that is given here.  I finally have a question that id like to ask with a few details.
     I have been using a Browning A-bolt youth 270 since I was 12 and Im finall ready to step up and get me a new rig.  Although I love this gun and have killed many deer with it I've just outgrown it.  So here is where I am.
     I have convinced my wife to let me spend $1000 on the whole rig.  I have settled on a Tikka T3 Lite Stainless after many hours trolling forums and going to gun stores.  I love the look and the action and trigger are a dream.  SO here is where my questions come in. 
 
Question 1.  I need a caliber.  I live in deep south Louisiana.  We hunt a lot in the marsh probably no shots over 200 yards.  But id like somthing with a lot of versitility and accuracy.  I've settled down to .30-06, .308, or 7mm-08.  I have been told that the .308 is going to give me the greatest accuracy but once the bullet weight gets up around 180 grain that the .30-06 takes over as been better.  Then ive heard good things about the 7mm.08 as well.  I will really only be hunting whitetail so i dont know if I need a bigger cartridge.  I would love any opinions on the matter.
 
Question2.  This is erally why I posted on the forum.  Obviously I am going to need a scope.  I figure I will have in the 300 dollar range.  $600(rifle) + mounts + shipping + scope.  I take it from what Ive read that the Bushnell 4200 elite 3-9x40 is probably going to be my best value.  That is what im looking for I want to get the most scope I can get for the budget i have.  Im not to particular on bells and whistle jsut good dependable glass thats going to last me for a while.
 
So thats it Im trying to build me an all purpose rig here since it will be my main gun for almost any hunt I go on so any and all advice so I can get this right the first time would be very helpful.
Thanks     
    
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2009 at 14:28
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Welcome to the O.T. Sounds like you've done your homework. Rifle sounds good, scope sounds good, as far as caliber goes - write those three down on seperate pieces of paper, put them in a hat and draw one out - there's your choice, in other words for what you want, those are all great choices and all perform about the same. At this point, don't over-think it. Pick a caliber and go.. you've done well.   Bricat. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2009 at 14:32
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Ditto.  Your choices are, I think, spot on.

As for the caliber, if you are a handloader, this makes no difference.  If you use factory ammo, either 30-06 or 308 will have a much better selection of factory ammo. 

Also, for plinking and practicing there is surplus 308 ammo floating around that is comparatively cheap.

With that in mind, I would probably go for a 308.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2009 at 14:33
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I would say Elite 4200 or Nikon team primos 3x9.The rifle is a great choice,but they do have a healthy kick to them because of the weight.Go 308 you cant go wrong with that caliber.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2009 at 14:35
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Welcome to Optics Talk.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2009 at 14:52
bhebe55 View Drop Down
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Yea The weight issue was a concern for me Im only about 5'4" 145lbs.  So i was thinking that the .30-06 might be a little much although I sont have any proble with my 270.  That is why I have been recommended the 7mm-08 be a few people because supposedly its kicks not much more than a .243 but have better balistics.  I was also wondering If the price differnce between the elite and the zeise conquest is worth the price difference.  I dont mind spending a more if im going to get more.  The bushnell is 289.95 and the conquest is 449.95  I know the zeiss is better but its 65% more expensive is it 65% better Im looking for value.  Just trying to get the most for my money.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2009 at 14:55
cyborg View Drop Down
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In short NO there isn't that big of a difference. To some the added cost is justifiable, that is a decision that you must make based on your own preferences. Best of luck to you.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2009 at 15:00
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Are you going to keep the .270?  If you are, I wouldn't go with the '06, too easy to mix up the shells and get the wrong one in the wrong gun!!  Just curious, why not get another .270?   I'm not a .308 fan, but think the 7mm-08 is pretty cool.  I like the .260 better, but its hard to find guns and ammo for it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2009 at 15:11
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I do not know if you have explored this option, but if you have outgrown your 270 Win physically instead of just figuritively - you could replace the stock with an aftermarket one and use the additional money to give you more scope options.  If this is not a consideration, then you will still have a nice setup with the Tikka.  If you are already leaning toward one cartridge more than the others, then I would get it and be happy - all are a good choice for deer.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2009 at 15:16
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  As far as the recoil factor goes,I've read of GOOD results when switching to a direct replacement Limbsaver pad.  Most that praised them were .300WSM T3 users. May be a GOOD investment. Also,my vote goes to the .308 Win.
 
  Xcuse my bad manners! WELCOME to ya!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2009 at 15:50
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If your going to keep the 270, I'd go 06' with the 3x9 bushnell.  I like the 06, you can darn near hunt anything available in North America, it has the best bullet selection both factory and component and it has the powder capacity to push heavier bullets.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2009 at 16:00
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Ok ive pretty much settled on the Bushnell.  Any recommendations on mounts I have read that the dednutz one peice are really good.  Anyone have any experience with these?

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2009 at 16:14
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I have a set on a kimber in 260, they're well built and sure are different, I don't have problem recommending them.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2009 at 16:27
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I have a set on my Model 700 - First class all the way, lightweight and made very well!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2009 at 16:50
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Welcome to the forum. You have gotten some good advice. With regards to choice of caliber, I have a Tikka in 7mm-08 and love it. It will kill any deer alive out to 300 yds if you do your part with somewhat less recoil than the .308 and a lot less than the 30-06. There is a fair selection of commercially loaded ammo for the caliber but most all of it is 140 grain.  Again, fine for deer. It is not as readily available as ammo for the .308 or 30-06 (i.e. available at any hardware store) but neither is it scarce. It will cost you a little more.
 
When I bought mine, I said the same thing you did, i.e. I am only going to shoot deer. But now, several years later, I am planning a trip to Africa to hunt plains game. If you think there is any chance you will want to hunt other game in the future such as elk, moose, plains game, etc. one of the other calibers would be more versatile.
 
But that just gives me an excuse to buy another gun. Good luck and good hunting.
Wes
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2009 at 16:59
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Greetings to New Acadia! Tell Boudreaux and Thibodeaux we said hey!
 
As a pratical matter the .308 is a bit of over kill for the smaller deer.  It makes that up by being easy to find at every Walmart and gas station.  The 150 grain bullet is about all you should need.  If you reload the 165 grain bullets may be more user friendly because some of the 150's are geting thicker jackets for use in the magnums.
 
As to the scope. On paper the 3x9 Bushnell is great.  It is clear and bright and a best buy. Given that a lot of where you hunt is tight brush with dark shadows, you may want to think about a fixed 4x or something like the  2 to 7 or 1.5 to 6 scopes that give some extra field of view up close.  They may also make the gun a little faster to handle.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2009 at 17:45
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I have a Browning X-Bolt rifle in 7MM-08 with the Zeiss Conquest 3-9X40, and can tell you that this is one great rig. I can shoot out to 200 yards without any worries or hold-over for deer.
I loved the rifle so much that I bought another X-Bolt in .308 which is my first love caliber any way.
These calibers are so close that it worried me about mixing the rifles and ammo so I mounted a Nikon Monarch 2-8X32 on the .308. Again, I have another rifle that I can shoot out to 200 yards without any worries of hold-over.
As far as recoil, well I guess I have to say the 7MM-08 has the slight edge for being a little easier on the shoulder. When on the bench, I use a shooters strap-on recoil pad on my shoulder any way and do not really notice the recoil. When shooting freehand or prone, recoil does not factor in at all for me.
I had the 30-06 and found it to be a great shooter and caliber as well, but a little more gun then I needed for whitetails up to and around 200 yards. Recoil was harder on the shoulder, and ammo was slightly higher then the .308.
The two scopes I have mounted on the rifles are super clear and crisp,  and easy to bring on target quickly.
The X-Bolt rifles are a little light which made me worry about recoil. But after mounting the scopes and shooting them, the worry and concerns of felt recoil went away quickly.
Many will say that the 7MM-08 and .308 are just about twins as calibers go at the distance I shoot, but I had to have the 7MM-08 to play with, and the .308 was just a great caliber to have so I had to have another of them ( certainly not my first nor last .308).
Ammo for the 7MM-08 can get a bit pricey, whereas the .308 can be had just about anywhere. Surplus can be had at any gun show for very little money compared to the 7MM-08 and that equates to more shooting time on the range to get really good with your weapon.
I would also like to add that on both scopes, I never seem to turn them up more then 4X for shooting game. Nice to have the extra power to zoom in, but I found it is not really needed.
Just my opinion, and I  hope this helps a little.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2009 at 18:45
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Originally posted by bhebe55 bhebe55 wrote:

Yea The weight issue was a concern for me Im only about 5'4" 145lbs.  So i was thinking that the .30-06 might be a little much although I sont have any proble with my 270.  That is why I have been recommended the 7mm-08 be a few people because supposedly its kicks not much more than a .243 but have better balistics.  I was also wondering If the price differnce between the elite and the zeise conquest is worth the price difference.  I dont mind spending a more if im going to get more.  The bushnell is 289.95 and the conquest is 449.95  I know the zeiss is better but its 65% more expensive is it 65% better Im looking for value.  Just trying to get the most for my money.
.......................Here`s something funny!!...You are 5' 4" and weigh 145 lbs and you think you`ve out grown your 270 youth!!....I`m 6' 3" at 240 lbs and absolutely love my 300 WSM Ruger Frontier compact`s dimensions (LOP-12.5".. OAL- 35.5")  for shouldering speed, fast pointing, carrying and manuverabilty. And both my LOP and OAL are probably shorter than your 270 youth rifle!!
 
The 3x9 Elite 4200 or the Nikon Primos for the bucks you wish to spend, will be your best two choices for the Tikka.
 
Caliber wise, any of the three would do nicely. If you forecast hunting larger game someday, the `06 will be the better choice with bullet weights 180 gr and heavier.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2009 at 19:28
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I agree squeezer, no need for the 7-08 if you already own a 270.  Time to jump to a more substancial caliber, like the 308/06
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2009 at 21:29
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I disagree with the concept that .308 is "too much gun" for deer, of any type.   As with any rifle, shot placement is the key.  Between .308 and 30-06, HARD call.  They are both excellent.  You have some advantage with the -06 in wider bullet selection, better performance with heavier bullets, which leads to a larger "all around" game selection.  Shot placement is, again, a key factor, though.  .308 can handle most anything on this continent.  Not sure I would want to tackle one of the big bears with it, but it IS doable.  Many factors to consider for that, though.  
.308 will have a flatter trajectory than -06, but -06 will have a greater "killing range".  This is discussion that has RAGED for many years.  Generally comes down to 1) intended use, 2) personal preference.  I don't own a .308, carried one, shot one for quite some time.  I have 3 30-06's, but it was more what caught my eye at the time than a REAL preference.  Overall, I do believe the -06 is more versatile.  And, I can get a variety of 30-06, fairly cheaply, just about anywhere.  .308 is very available, fewer choices.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2009 at 21:39
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I really appreciate all the responses.  I knew this was a great community but wow.  Ugggh I wish I could just afford one of each and make it easy.  I know that i would probably be happy with either but money is so tight I really wanna get this right.  I think im leaning towards the .30-06 for more of an all purpose round i guess when it comes down to it id rather be over gunned then under gunned.  Still keep the opinions coming please. 
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Just to throw one more curve what about this Nikkon Team primos for $199.95.  Seems like an awsome deal how does that compare quality and performance wise to the bushnell 4200?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2009 at 21:54
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Welcome I vote for the 308..........I have a 270 like it but my 308 is my go to deer gun. Mine has a Zeiss 3x9x40. The Nikon is a good scope for the money, the 4200 elite is a stepup in quality....
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2009 at 04:57
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Originally posted by bhebe55 bhebe55 wrote:

Yea The weight issue was a concern for me Im only about 5'4" 145lbs.  So i was thinking that the .30-06 might be a little much although I sont have any proble with my 270.  That is why I have been recommended the 7mm-08 be a few people because supposedly its kicks not much more than a .243 but have better balistics.  I was also wondering If the price differnce between the elite and the zeise conquest is worth the price difference.  I dont mind spending a more if im going to get more.  The bushnell is 289.95 and the conquest is 449.95  I know the zeiss is better but its 65% more expensive is it 65% better Im looking for value.  Just trying to get the most for my money.
.................The Tikka T3`s are a really good, accurate and light rifles. If I`m not mistaken they have the 23" barrels and they are around 42" to 43" long in OAL.
 
I know that you already mentioned the Tikka T3. If you`re concerned about weight, but will also be hunting in the thicker stuff such as timbers and brush, it certainly helps a little to cut the rifle length down a bit as well, without necessarily sacrificing ballistic performance.
 
How about 23"- 24" barreled 30-06 ballistic performance coming from a lite but shorter compact? Even for your 5' 4"size, walking while grabbing the rifle by its pistol grip with your arms at your side, as I easily do with mine, without the muzzle hitting the ground may still be possible in your case. Or shouldering the rifle as I do with my compact, with the muzzle still below the top of my head. 
 
If you want `06 performance or better and from a shorter rifle, you may also wish to consider the new `09 Ruger M77 compact stainless chambered in the 300 RCM, weighing 5 3/4 lbs; 16.5" barrel, is only 35.5" in OAL and is a very accurate cartridge. The M77 Ruger actions are extremely strong and smooth. You get the new LC6 triggers which are very nice and crispy. If you reload, there are 300 RCM dies and brass available as well as factory ammo if you don`t reload. 
 
What concerns me a little, is your 5' 4" stature and how that would compare to your ease in having a rifle about 43" long to carry around in the field in various terrain conditions, as opposed to a rifle 8" or so shorter. Certainly for anyone, regardless of stature size, a shorter rifle, even with the same weight or even a pound more, gains a few points in the handling, carrying and manuverability depts.
 
Just a few thoughts to consider. I know a few who have bought new rifles over recent years, then went hunting and later wished for something more compact. Since I`ve owned mine, I`ve had  requests to borrow it. But that was them. In your case, if the Tikka feels good for you, you don`t mind the length and feel its no problem with your shorter height with the type of hunting you do, then go for it. 
 
I`ve read the ballistics on the 20" 300 RCM. The 16.5" barreled 300 RCM  will still ship a 180 grainer down the road with a MV at around 2800 fps, while the 150 gr is very close to the 3000 fps mark. 
 
   
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2009 at 05:14
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If he is worried about 30-06 being a little bit too much to handle in a regular size rifle, then a more powerful 300RCM in a shorter and lighter rifle may not be the best way to go.

I would think that if anything when going to shorter rifle you want to stick with something slightly underbore, like 308Win.  That also does wonders to muzzleblast.

As is, a regular TIkka T3 chambered in 308, comes with a 22" barrel and weighs somewhere between 6.1 and 6.5 lbs depending on the stock choice.  That is about half a pound heavier than a Ruger Compact or Ultralight chambered for the same cartridge.

I'd stick with a T3, personally, but that is really a matter of individual preference, since I thoroughly dislike the muzzle blast of short barrel rifles chambered for overbore cartridges.

ILya
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