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Using a scope with mil turrets and mil reticle

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/12/2009 at 13:28
Chris Farris View Drop Down
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Here is a great article written by our friend Frank Galli on SnipersHide.com on how to use a scope with a milradian based reticle and milradian based windage and elevation turrets.  One you understand it and use one you will wonder why you ever used something with a mil reticle and moa turrets.

Using a Mil Based Scope - Easy Transition



Edited by Chris Farris - July/12/2009 at 13:31
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/16/2009 at 23:34
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Great link Chris!!  Thunbs Up  After using the SS Variable some, I am starting to wonder how I used other mil dot scopes.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/22/2009 at 19:39
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nice post, mil is defently the way to go, i am slowly converting all my scopes over
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/05/2009 at 01:08
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Not sure if I will or not but I'd like to. It's just that with my NF it will run $320.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/05/2009 at 10:20
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why would you want to convert a moa/moa to a mil/mil ? same difference. if your using mil/moa system maybe, even then tell the ballistic program you want the come ups in mils instead of moa and just the reticle for holdover.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/05/2009 at 11:46
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Well ok I think I am going to show my lack of knowledge. I read the article on Mil Rads from Chris's link and I do not see what the big deal is. To me it is just a different way to adjust your POI. Not better just different. To me the moa set up I have on my Nightforce is easy to use and with 1/4 moa adjustments has a finer adjustment than the 1/10 mil rad.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/05/2009 at 12:10
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To each, his own.

The primary benefit of the mil over the MOA is consistency.  For your MOA scope, a 1MOA correction is 4 clicks at 100 yards but only 2 clicks at 200 yards.  For a mil-based turret, a 2-mil correction is a 2-mil correction, no matter what range.

I learned on mil dot scopes with MOA turrets and can do it just fine, but I must admit mil-based systems are simpler.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/05/2009 at 12:17
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chris is talking about mixed systems ---- I think jono is talking about moa/moa vs mil/mil.
moa corrections are also the same at any distance, they are both radial measurements.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/05/2009 at 12:33
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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

To each, his own.

The primary benefit of the mil over the MOA is consistency.  For your MOA scope, a 1MOA correction is 4 clicks at 100 yards but only 2 clicks at 200 yards.  For a mil-based turret, a 2-mil correction is a 2-mil correction, no matter what range.

I learned on mil dot scopes with MOA turrets and can do it just fine, but I must admit mil-based systems are simpler.


Thanks. I understand now. But I guess I still like the idea of finer adjustments that the 1/4 moa allows. But weather or not I am able to really make use of that finer adjustment is another matter. Maybe peace of mind.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/05/2009 at 12:53
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Originally posted by Dale Clifford Dale Clifford wrote:

chris is talking about mixed systems ---- I think jono is talking about moa/moa vs mil/mil.
moa corrections are also the same at any distance, they are both radial measurements.



Yea, true, it just makes more sense to me in mils.  And the numbers are smaller, for what it's worth: 40MOA vs. 10 mils.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/05/2009 at 13:12
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I could see the advantage if spotter is set up with the same reticle as the shooter. Maybe clicking to a dot or line, but besides that i also do not really see any real advantage.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/05/2009 at 13:22
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It eliminates the math involved in dialing in corrections.  If you shoot 1 mil to the right with MOA adjustments you have to figure out the ratio and dial in x MOA.  If you have a mil/mil scope all you have to do in this case is dial in 1 mil and your next shot will be on.   An moa/mao scope would work the same way. 

I learned the basics on a moa/mil system and then bought a mil/mil scope and it is much easier and much faster to dial in corrections.  No thinking is involved you don't even have to take your eye off the target.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/05/2009 at 14:54
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A mil reticle combined with mil turrets is the way to go if you are shooting different distance frequently.  Finer adjustments like 1/8 moa are not desirable for shooting longer distance or multiple distances because of the amount of adjustment that is required, .10 mil is just about perfect.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/05/2009 at 15:11
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Originally posted by Chris Farris Chris Farris wrote:

A mil reticle combined with mil turrets is the way to go if you are shooting different distance frequently.  Finer adjustments like 1/8 moa are not desirable for shooting longer distance or multiple distances because of the amount of adjustment that is required, .10 mil is just about perfect.



The scope and mount work very well together, I am exceedingly pleased.


Now if the damned UPS guy would bring the new scope, I'd be exceedingly-er pleased!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/05/2009 at 16:01
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That whole package looks pretty nice, same as the ebay deal minus the ARD.

 
By the way what is a SS Khaki Koozie??
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/05/2009 at 16:20
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Originally posted by Dale Clifford Dale Clifford wrote:

why would you want to convert a moa/moa to a mil/mil ? same difference. if your using mil/moa system maybe, even then tell the ballistic program you want the come ups in mils instead of moa and just the reticle for holdover.


If the reticle was moa I wouldn't. But right now I have a mil-dot reticle and 1/4 moa turrets.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/05/2009 at 16:23
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Originally posted by Roadwild17 Roadwild17 wrote:

By the way what is a SS Khaki Koozie??
 
It wraps around a frosty barley pop and keeps it cool. Cheers
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/05/2009 at 16:28
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Mmmmmm, barley pop, aarghaaaaaa.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/03/2009 at 14:28
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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

To each, his own.

The primary benefit of the mil over the MOA is consistency.  For your MOA scope, a 1MOA correction is 4 clicks at 100 yards but only 2 clicks at 200 yards.  For a mil-based turret, a 2-mil correction is a 2-mil correction, no matter what range.

I learned on mil dot scopes with MOA turrets and can do it just fine, but I must admit mil-based systems are simpler.


In case people see this that don't know any better...1MOA correction is still 4 clicks at 200 yards, not 2, if you are using 1/4MOA clicks.

MOA/MOA scopes really are the same as MIL/MIL scopes in this regard....just smaller/finer adjustments.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/03/2009 at 14:41
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Originally posted by danjojoUSMC danjojoUSMC wrote:

Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

To each, his own.

The primary benefit of the mil over the MOA is consistency.  For your MOA scope, a 1MOA correction is 4 clicks at 100 yards but only 2 clicks at 200 yards.  For a mil-based turret, a 2-mil correction is a 2-mil correction, no matter what range.

I learned on mil dot scopes with MOA turrets and can do it just fine, but I must admit mil-based systems are simpler.


In case people see this that don't know any better...1MOA correction is still 4 clicks at 200 yards, not 2, if you are using 1/4MOA clicks.

MOA/MOA scopes really are the same as MIL/MIL scopes in this regard....just smaller/finer adjustments.


No rancid is correct, at 200 yards your values double.  The values increase as you go out because MOA is an angular measurement.  In other words 1 MOA at 100 is about 1 inch at 200 it is about 2 inches at 300 it is about 3 inches etc etc. 


Edited by supertool73 - September/03/2009 at 14:42
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/03/2009 at 17:25
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Rancid Coolaid was wrong in this case,  he has a lot of knowledge and I learn from what he says....same goes for you supertool.

His statement of 1MOA being 2 clicks at 200 yards is something I just wanted to clear it up in case a brand new guy read it and got confused or misinformed.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/03/2009 at 17:55
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I think what both RC and Supertool73 are saying is if you need to adjust one inch at 200yds it is 2 clicks. And one inch at 100yds is 4 clicks. Where as with the Mil Rad you do not need to convert since if your POI adjustment is 1 Mil Rad at what ever distance you are talking about it is still just a 1 Mil Rad adjustment on your scope no matter what the distance is.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/03/2009 at 18:00
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Originally posted by danjojoUSMC danjojoUSMC wrote:

Rancid Coolaid was wrong in this case,  he has a lot of knowledge and I learn from what he says....same goes for you supertool.

His statement of 1MOA being 2 clicks at 200 yards is something I just wanted to clear it up in case a brand new guy read it and got confused or misinformed.




I admit I was wrong on the delineation of mils and MOA (both are angular measures) but on a 1/4MOA knob, 4 clicks at 100 yards is one inch, and the same 4 clicks at 200 yards is 2 inches due to the angular measure. 
At 600 yards, 1 click of a 1/4MOA knob is 1.5-inches of movement on target.

If the knob is 1/2MOA, a 2-click correction at 200 yards would be 2 inches on paper: if I mis-spoke earlier, sorry.

To calculate change on target with a 1/4MOA turret, the correction 1/4 x (hundreds of yards as a decimal.  Hence, 600 yards is 1/4 x 6 = 6/4 = 1.5 inches on target.  At 300 yards, a click is 1/4 x 3 = 3/4 inches per click.)

Make more sense?


Edited by Rancid Coolaid - September/03/2009 at 18:01
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/03/2009 at 18:05
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Makes perfect sense my man....just wanted to bring it up for other newbies.

I really like that with the Horus scopes you can range with either MOA or MIL...hope you guys that do a lot of shooting put them through their paces once SWFA starts to carry them and then give us feedback.

Their Hawk scope seems pretty cool since it is FFP, mil/mil, etc. and only $549.  I would like to see how people feel about its parallax issue/non-issue on 12x and if the eye relief change is very bad.



Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/04/2009 at 06:15
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Well, now Iam going to show my ignorance. 
Chris II was attempting to tell me about mil rads the other day.  I was a bit confused and I hate being confused.  After reading the article CF posted, it makes a lot of sense and seems to be a lot easier.  Being a former science teacher, breaking things down into .1 is a lot easier and neater. 
 
I just got MOA down and now I find it could be easier...
 
I really wish the SS 3 x 9  was a SS 3 x 10...
 
Thanks for the info!
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